khans2k5 wrote:I don't see a point in trading Wiggins for younger players and picks. That's going in the wrong direction. The clock has started if you believe KAT is a cornerstone player. We don't have 3-4 years to wait for a pick to develop. KAT is gone in that scenario. If you trade Wiggins for picks you might as well blow the whole thing up. We have 2 20 PPG players. Get a primary ball handler/play maker and find role players around them.
And one of those role players has to be a great defender at the 5.
khans2k5 wrote:I don't see a point in trading Wiggins for younger players and picks. That's going in the wrong direction. The clock has started if you believe KAT is a cornerstone player. We don't have 3-4 years to wait for a pick to develop. KAT is gone in that scenario. If you trade Wiggins for picks you might as well blow the whole thing up. We have 2 20 PPG players. Get a primary ball handler/play maker and find role players around them.
I agree with this sentiment. Makes more sense to push what we have to the limit unless Wiggins can yield us something even more productive immediately (instant cap relief or a more productive veteran).
khans2k5 wrote:I don't see a point in trading Wiggins for younger players and picks. That's going in the wrong direction. The clock has started if you believe KAT is a cornerstone player. We don't have 3-4 years to wait for a pick to develop. KAT is gone in that scenario. If you trade Wiggins for picks you might as well blow the whole thing up. We have 2 20 PPG players. Get a primary ball handler/play maker and find role players around them.
I agree with this sentiment. Makes more sense to push what we have to the limit unless Wiggins can yield us something even more productive immediately (instant cap relief or a more productive veteran).
We already did push what we had to the limit. It was called KAT + Wiggins + Thibs, Butler, Gibson, and Teague. It got us a winning record, which by itself is a borderline miracle with this franchise, but then after that it was a swift first round exit.
The Batum/a pick for Wiggins deal is sort of why it sucks right now to be a wolves fan. Completely understand people coming to the conclusion that Wiggins and Kat do not work.
But going into next year the wolves will more than likely be worse in year 2 of the Kat extension losing Wiggins for a warm body in Batum. Then the Wolves will finally have cap space, but they will have a lot a cap space in the year everyone has cap space and lets be honest they are not ever picking minnesota. Also wolves will be in bidding wars trying to out bid everyone for the 2 tier FA.
So going into year 3 of Kat contract the wolves will have on roster Okogie/Culver/KBD/Nowell/Naz/Cov/2 1st round rookies in this next draft around KAT and assuming none of those players take a massive step up the wolves will be young but bad once again in year 3 of Kat deal.
Wolves in a really bad spot, Im not sure what they should do.
khans2k5 wrote:I don't see a point in trading Wiggins for younger players and picks. That's going in the wrong direction. The clock has started if you believe KAT is a cornerstone player. We don't have 3-4 years to wait for a pick to develop. KAT is gone in that scenario. If you trade Wiggins for picks you might as well blow the whole thing up. We have 2 20 PPG players. Get a primary ball handler/play maker and find role players around them.
I see your point, Kahns. But I don't see a core tandem of KAT and Wiggins on max contracts working as a foundation for a contending team. And I see Wiggins ultimately regressing, which he's already doing this season from a scoring efficiency standpoint. So I think it's time to move him for the best value package available that provides cap relief at least by the summer of 2021 and provides more draft assets to work with.
We don't need 3-4 years to develop a pick. Good picks often have a substantial positive impact by year two. That's even the case for lower first round and second round picks. Rudy Gobert (#27 pick) averaged 2.3 blocks and 9.5 rebounds his second season. Imagine having him at the 5 next to KAT as KAT enters the 3rd year of his contract. Donovan Mitchell (#13 pick) averaged 23.8 points and 36% from behind the arc to go with his excellent defense in his second season. Klay Thompson (#11 pick) averaged 16 points and 40% from behind the arc his second season. Jokic (#41 pick) averaged 16.7 points, 9.8 rebounds and 5 assists in his second season. There are many other first round picks who have had major positive impacts for their teams by their 2nd season. So there's plenty of time for a 2020 draft pick to have a big impact before KAT finishes the 3rd season of his 5-year deal. And there is still the possibility that Culver could prove worthy of the #5 pick by KAT's 3rd season.
Furthermore, I look at accumulating draft assets not simply because of who we might draft. I also look at those assets as valuable trade assets to package with players on draft day for a proven young allstar caliber player like D. Russell.
khans2k5 wrote:I don't see a point in trading Wiggins for younger players and picks. That's going in the wrong direction. The clock has started if you believe KAT is a cornerstone player. We don't have 3-4 years to wait for a pick to develop. KAT is gone in that scenario. If you trade Wiggins for picks you might as well blow the whole thing up. We have 2 20 PPG players. Get a primary ball handler/play maker and find role players around them.
I agree with this sentiment. Makes more sense to push what we have to the limit unless Wiggins can yield us something even more productive immediately (instant cap relief or a more productive veteran).
We already did push what we had to the limit. It was called KAT + Wiggins + Thibs, Butler, Gibson, and Teague. It got us a winning record, which by itself is a borderline miracle with this franchise, but then after that it was a swift first round exit.
The KAT-Wiggins combo doesn't work.
Im not saying the KAT Wiggins combo is working, what Im saying is that if all we can get is a downgrade at Wiggins' position for a year then its a bad deal. A first round exit is way beyond where we will be for another 10 years if we end up with KAT and Batum for next year as I see it. We already have rumors of KAT's displeasure. Another lottery season with Batum instead of Wiggins seals KAT's departure. If this is the best deal we can get at this point we're better off trading KAT.
khans2k5 wrote:I don't see a point in trading Wiggins for younger players and picks. That's going in the wrong direction. The clock has started if you believe KAT is a cornerstone player. We don't have 3-4 years to wait for a pick to develop. KAT is gone in that scenario. If you trade Wiggins for picks you might as well blow the whole thing up. We have 2 20 PPG players. Get a primary ball handler/play maker and find role players around them.
I agree with this sentiment. Makes more sense to push what we have to the limit unless Wiggins can yield us something even more productive immediately (instant cap relief or a more productive veteran).
We already did push what we had to the limit. It was called KAT + Wiggins + Thibs, Butler, Gibson, and Teague. It got us a winning record, which by itself is a borderline miracle with this franchise, but then after that it was a swift first round exit.
The KAT-Wiggins combo doesn't work.
Im not saying the KAT Wiggins combo is working, what Im saying is that if all we can get is a downgrade at Wiggins' position for a year then its a bad deal. A first round exit is way beyond where we will be for another 10 years if we end up with KAT and Batum for next year as I see it. We already have rumors of KAT's displeasure. Another lottery season with Batum instead of Wiggins seals KAT's departure. If this is the best deal we can get at this point we're better off trading KAT.
I hear you which is why I'm not opposed to trading KAT and trying to build this team from the outside in. But we all know that no one in the front office is going to do this, so what to do in the meantime?
If you look at Wiggins vs. Batum in isolation, yes, that is a bad tradeoff. But what other moves do we make? Are there other players that get his shots that can be more efficient? Does it open up the door for other players to step up, including a mid-level free agent?
Wiggins + KAT has proven for years that they're not good enough to come close to making the playoffs together. They needed another player (the best player on the team) just to win one playoff game out of 5 attempts.
We all know the clock is ticking with Towns. Whether that's with Wiggins or without him.
Personally, I'm not really into riding into the sunset as a Wolves fan with my last 7 or 8 years spent watching a max guy whose game I don't dig watching (Wiggins) leading the caravan. It's proven that it won't work. How many other franchises give a failed premise like this five or six (or more) years to work?
I love player continuity in today's game where 1 and 2 year contracts are the norm and players jump ship on a whim. IRONICALLY, I'm stuck watching guys like Dieng and Wiggins for what could be a decade... and not getting any success out of it.
[Note: Dieng is #14 in longest tenure with a team... Wiggins is #16.]
I think there is plenty of evidence as to why it has been frustrating to have Wiggins and KAT as our core. I don't think that means we should turn that frustration into a bad deal. The Batum deal is not maximum value for Wiggins. Like I said, at the very least we should get immediate cap relief if we are going to get off of him. Otherwise there is really no point of making the trade this year.
I get the argument that a Towns-Wiggins duo on max deals is not taking us anywhere. Dealing wiggins now may nit be the solution though. We likely wont get a player better than him to pair with towns and cap space has never and will likely never get us a legit transformational player to pair with kat.
The hope for us is to find that star (doncic, mitchell, trae young likes) that is still on a rookie deal that can eventually be counted on to lead the franchise along with towns. While we wait out wiggins max deal to end. We absolutely need to nail our next draft pick and hopefully get some luck in the lottery.
I dont see wiggins getting a max deal after his current contract. Maybe 18-24m a year max based on current salary cap standards. Based on his play this season, if sustainable, that would be a reasonable deal for us as a 3rd guy with two othe max players. Trading him now for batum and hoping free agents will sign with us may not be the best way to go. As we would likely overpay for them to come here.
Whatever the case, drafting that transformational player is the clearest and surest way for us to get towns the buddy he needs. As is the case of most other teams in the league.
