Minnesota Sports Forum

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.

Lowry wasn't a "perhaps." It was a nonstarter giving what he got from Toronto. It's not like players were giving us discounts to sign them - case in point Taj. I agree that Indiana would have dealt George for Wiggins, but there's no way I'd make that deal if I were Thibs. The odds of him leaving after one season are WAY too high.

I listened to the appearance of Mitch Lawrence on Barerrio from a few days ago and he said one theory that's out there is that even Ainge didn't think he was going to get George to sign a long term deal and so for them he was a rental and he may have not wanted to give up a lot for just one season of George. Honestly that makes some sense.

A couple other things I will mention.

He basically had the same reports about Teague as Jon K. Somewhat of a split throughout the league on Teague/swap. He basically thought Teague's defense was terrible and thought Thibs things he can coach him up.

They talked some about the Knicks and how fans had multiple parades now that Phil is gone but...who will they hire? Will the be any better? Could they be worse? Mitch said they need to hire a guy that has done this all before and Dan told him he knows just the guy for the job. He is available and already lives in NYC. David Kahn. lol I think he actually had Mitch intruiged before he said the name. :)

Mitch said that adding Gibson was a terrific move and he said he is a way better player than Patterson who he has heard some people (Wolves fans) are grumbling about the deals each guy got he said Taj is a way better player.

He said the Wolves were clearly one of the winners of the offseason so far. He said Boston was a winner but not a big winner. He said the Clippers might be a winner just because they won't be playing Chris paul 46 million a year when he is 38.

He mention JVG calling out Wiggins and Towns commitment to defense on his show and Dan said he basically said the same thing. Mitch said the reality is that Wiggins and Towns right now are young talented losers. They haven't won anything and haven't committed to defense and until they win and take the next step...that's what they are. It was harsh but it was interesting to hear that perspective from the outsider. He seemed to give Rubio a pass because he played defense.

Nothing really was earth shattering and there may have been a couple more interesting things there but yeah there was some kinda good stuff.

Good information, Monster. I didn't hear the interview so thanks for posting the summary. I have a lot of respect for Mitch. Believe me, I want out be wrong about Taj and Teague. But the most telling comment was the one about Towns and Wiggins. I agree with him completely. I've alway said and will continue to say that the fate of this franchise rests with the development and play of Wiggins and Towns. They need to step up their games defensively and Wiggins needs to step up his game in numerous other ways, including rebounding and ballhandling.

Mitch also mentioned Kyrie as a talented loser also.

I'll say this about Towns and Wiggins defense. I've listened to a number of NBA experts or whatever on various podcasts that say they really weren't surprised the Wolves weren't better on defense last year even with Thibs. They said they were just too young and Thibs concepts are pretty complex so they just didn't think the young guys would all catch on quick enough. That doesn't let those guys off the hook but it does make a lot of sense and it feels good a number of people said they saw that coming. Britt Robson has basically complete belief Towns will figure it out defensively (even while saying he was f$@#ing terrible on defense last year) and he thinks Wiggins is better on that end than some people give credit for. That says something to me because that guy makes a bigger deal out of defense than LST does. Lol Regardless those guys have to step up and prove themselves. It's gonna help having some vets who are good and know what the heck they are doing. It's probably going to make Dieng look better too.

Monster - Interesting point about the complexity of Thibs' defense and how that might at least partially explain the defensive struggles of our two young talents. It tracks a comment coach Carlisle made the other day in summer league. He mentioned that the most important thing to do with young players is to keep it simple. Those were his exact words. One of the things that makes Carlisle and other top coaches so great over long stretches of time with multiple teams is their adaptability. Carlisle, Pop and others adapt to the talents or their players and, as Carlisle was suggesting, they also adapt to the age of their players. I don't think Thibs is flexible enough to adapt to anything. Hence, he's bringing in two vets who player under him for years. Hopefully with time and help from the two new vets our young guys will master Thibs' complex defensive schemes.

Interestingly, we don't have many young guys left. It's just KAT at 21/22 Jones at 21/22, Wiggins at 22/23. That's it for what you can call "young guys." Gorgui is 27 and Butler will be 28 when the season starts. Teague and Belly are both 29. Taj is 32 and Crawford is 37.

He can grow as an offensive coach as well as rotations but I hope Thibs doesn't adapt how he teaches his defense at all, he's the best in the league at it and has been for many years. Carlisle and Pop adapted by taking Thib's icing the pick and roll concepts, Tom is the originator. The last thing we need is to coddle KAT and Wiggins, if they can't figure it out they are the problem not Tom. All his other teams through the decades with the Knicks, Rockets, Celtics, and Bulls figured it out.

Bloop -- I don't know that I disagree with you on Thibs sticking to the letter of his defensive schemes. But I'll quibble with your list of "his teams." Only the Bulls fall into that category. His was an assistant with all the other teams and someone who played for the Rockets when Thibs was there commented on how Thibs was a very loyal soldier, carrying out the commands of the head coach. I think Rambis was an assistant coach on some very successful Laker teams. It's just too much of a stretch to extrapolate head coaching prowess from success during the coach's tenure as an assistant.

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.

Lowry wasn't a "perhaps." It was a nonstarter giving what he got from Toronto. It's not like players were giving us discounts to sign them - case in point Taj. I agree that Indiana would have dealt George for Wiggins, but there's no way I'd make that deal if I were Thibs. The odds of him leaving after one season are WAY too high.

I listened to the appearance of Mitch Lawrence on Barerrio from a few days ago and he said one theory that's out there is that even Ainge didn't think he was going to get George to sign a long term deal and so for them he was a rental and he may have not wanted to give up a lot for just one season of George. Honestly that makes some sense.

A couple other things I will mention.

He basically had the same reports about Teague as Jon K. Somewhat of a split throughout the league on Teague/swap. He basically thought Teague's defense was terrible and thought Thibs things he can coach him up.

They talked some about the Knicks and how fans had multiple parades now that Phil is gone but...who will they hire? Will the be any better? Could they be worse? Mitch said they need to hire a guy that has done this all before and Dan told him he knows just the guy for the job. He is available and already lives in NYC. David Kahn. lol I think he actually had Mitch intruiged before he said the name. :)

Mitch said that adding Gibson was a terrific move and he said he is a way better player than Patterson who he has heard some people (Wolves fans) are grumbling about the deals each guy got he said Taj is a way better player.

He said the Wolves were clearly one of the winners of the offseason so far. He said Boston was a winner but not a big winner. He said the Clippers might be a winner just because they won't be playing Chris paul 46 million a year when he is 38.

He mention JVG calling out Wiggins and Towns commitment to defense on his show and Dan said he basically said the same thing. Mitch said the reality is that Wiggins and Towns right now are young talented losers. They haven't won anything and haven't committed to defense and until they win and take the next step...that's what they are. It was harsh but it was interesting to hear that perspective from the outsider. He seemed to give Rubio a pass because he played defense.

Nothing really was earth shattering and there may have been a couple more interesting things there but yeah there was some kinda good stuff.

Good information, Monster. I didn't hear the interview so thanks for posting the summary. I have a lot of respect for Mitch. Believe me, I want out be wrong about Taj and Teague. But the most telling comment was the one about Towns and Wiggins. I agree with him completely. I've alway said and will continue to say that the fate of this franchise rests with the development and play of Wiggins and Towns. They need to step up their games defensively and Wiggins needs to step up his game in numerous other ways, including rebounding and ballhandling.

Mitch also mentioned Kyrie as a talented loser also.

I'll say this about Towns and Wiggins defense. I've listened to a number of NBA experts or whatever on various podcasts that say they really weren't surprised the Wolves weren't better on defense last year even with Thibs. They said they were just too young and Thibs concepts are pretty complex so they just didn't think the young guys would all catch on quick enough. That doesn't let those guys off the hook but it does make a lot of sense and it feels good a number of people said they saw that coming. Britt Robson has basically complete belief Towns will figure it out defensively (even while saying he was f$@#ing terrible on defense last year) and he thinks Wiggins is better on that end than some people give credit for. That says something to me because that guy makes a bigger deal out of defense than LST does. Lol Regardless those guys have to step up and prove themselves. It's gonna help having some vets who are good and know what the heck they are doing. It's probably going to make Dieng look better too.

Monster - Interesting point about the complexity of Thibs' defense and how that might at least partially explain the defensive struggles of our two young talents. It tracks a comment coach Carlisle made the other day in summer league. He mentioned that the most important thing to do with young players is to keep it simple. Those were his exact words. One of the things that makes Carlisle and other top coaches so great over long stretches of time with multiple teams is their adaptability. Carlisle, Pop and others adapt to the talents or their players and, as Carlisle was suggesting, they also adapt to the age of their players. I don't think Thibs is flexible enough to adapt to anything. Hence, he's bringing in two vets who player under him for years. Hopefully with time and help from the two new vets our young guys will master Thibs' complex defensive schemes.

Interestingly, we don't have many young guys left. It's just KAT at 21/22 Jones at 21/22, Wiggins at 22/23. That's it for what you can call "young guys." Gorgui is 27 and Butler will be 28 when the season starts. Teague and Belly are both 29. Taj is 32 and Crawford is 37.

He can grow as an offensive coach as well as rotations but I hope Thibs doesn't adapt how he teaches his defense at all, he's the best in the league at it and has been for many years. Carlisle and Pop adapted by taking Thib's icing the pick and roll concepts, Tom is the originator. The last thing we need is to coddle KAT and Wiggins, if they can't figure it out they are the problem not Tom. All his other teams through the decades with the Knicks, Rockets, Celtics, and Bulls figured it out.

Bloop -- I don't know that I disagree with you on Thibs sticking to the letter of his defensive schemes. But I'll quibble with your list of "his teams." Only the Bulls fall into that category. His was an assistant with all the other teams and someone who played for the Rockets when Thibs was there commented on how Thibs was a very loyal soldier, carrying out the commands of the head coach. I think Rambis was an assistant coach on some very successful Laker teams. It's just too much of a stretch to extrapolate head coaching prowess from success during the coach's tenure as an assistant.

Jeff Van Gundy is on record saying he knew many years ago that THibs was a better coach than him and reiterated it after he was hired by the Wolves. I can't speak for the Knicks but I know for a fact that he ran the defensive schemes in Houston. Here is an article with quotes from players from all his teams gushing about his defensive chops, I think he was MUCH more than a loyal soldier.

https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2010/5/20/1480036/the-case-for-tom-thibodeau

interesting that even Kobe claims in this article Tom taught him most of his stuff and that was decades ago!

EDIT: it looks like Thibs was in fact running the defense since his days with the Knicks

"Thibodeau joined New York in 1995-1996, the same year as Van Gundy. This was the first season in which he was really credited with designing a defense from the ground up... and it was a good one.

Thibodeau has obviously never been a head coach, but we can splice together data from the years he was a lead defensive assistant (New York in the 90's, Houston in the 00's, and Boston since 2007). In 14 such seasons (7 New York, 4 Houston, 3 Boston), Thibodeau's teams posted an adjusted 80.5 defensive efficiency, better than the teams of any other [candidate with HC experience]."

That's crazy longevity, Tom has been leading top defensive squads before Greg Popvovich even became the head coach for the Spurs!

Thibs is considered an innovator by coaches around the league. He isn't just going to do what he has done even defensively. He may still have a lot of the same principals but there has to be adjustments because of how the league has changed.

Carlisle and Pop are 2 of the best coaches in the league and both can do pretty much anything. We don't know for certain if Thibs is or isn't that guy at this point. Last year was a tough year to really make too many judgements IMO. Carlise and Pop for years always have a few guys that know the system lead and can be leaned on. Last year Thibs was in his first year with a crazy young inexperienced team and few vets. People can sure justifably quibble with some of what he did with the roster playing time working to maximize guys talents etc but he didn't have the luxury those other coaches have had for years.

Look at this roster now. Thibs basically turned this team from the up and coming team with little culture and infused it with top level player and culture guy in Butler. He added a guy that's been there done that in Teague. He adds a top glue guy that can do pretty much anything in Gibson and is familiar with him as well. Suddenly he has some guys he can absolutely lean on and build this roster. Some will say, "How good of a coach is he is he has to bring in players?" There is some truth to that but Abe always says players matter more than the coach. We all know the Wolves needed to add players to this roster to make it better both in on the court and provide some leadership. He seriously fast tracked his culture and it's possible it will bring some legit dividends including development of young players. One guy that may benefit from these move as much as anyone may be Tyus and he is the 2nd youngest guy on the team. People keep forgetting about Some of these moves clear the way for Tyus who is no slouch as a prospect. I've heard a few non Wolves NBA experts say he has legit potential to be a starter with this team long term.

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.

Lowry wasn't a "perhaps." It was a nonstarter giving what he got from Toronto. It's not like players were giving us discounts to sign them - case in point Taj. I agree that Indiana would have dealt George for Wiggins, but there's no way I'd make that deal if I were Thibs. The odds of him leaving after one season are WAY too high.

I listened to the appearance of Mitch Lawrence on Barerrio from a few days ago and he said one theory that's out there is that even Ainge didn't think he was going to get George to sign a long term deal and so for them he was a rental and he may have not wanted to give up a lot for just one season of George. Honestly that makes some sense.

A couple other things I will mention.

He basically had the same reports about Teague as Jon K. Somewhat of a split throughout the league on Teague/swap. He basically thought Teague's defense was terrible and thought Thibs things he can coach him up.

They talked some about the Knicks and how fans had multiple parades now that Phil is gone but...who will they hire? Will the be any better? Could they be worse? Mitch said they need to hire a guy that has done this all before and Dan told him he knows just the guy for the job. He is available and already lives in NYC. David Kahn. lol I think he actually had Mitch intruiged before he said the name. :)

Mitch said that adding Gibson was a terrific move and he said he is a way better player than Patterson who he has heard some people (Wolves fans) are grumbling about the deals each guy got he said Taj is a way better player.

He said the Wolves were clearly one of the winners of the offseason so far. He said Boston was a winner but not a big winner. He said the Clippers might be a winner just because they won't be playing Chris paul 46 million a year when he is 38.

He mention JVG calling out Wiggins and Towns commitment to defense on his show and Dan said he basically said the same thing. Mitch said the reality is that Wiggins and Towns right now are young talented losers. They haven't won anything and haven't committed to defense and until they win and take the next step...that's what they are. It was harsh but it was interesting to hear that perspective from the outsider. He seemed to give Rubio a pass because he played defense.

Nothing really was earth shattering and there may have been a couple more interesting things there but yeah there was some kinda good stuff.

Good information, Monster. I didn't hear the interview so thanks for posting the summary. I have a lot of respect for Mitch. Believe me, I want out be wrong about Taj and Teague. But the most telling comment was the one about Towns and Wiggins. I agree with him completely. I've alway said and will continue to say that the fate of this franchise rests with the development and play of Wiggins and Towns. They need to step up their games defensively and Wiggins needs to step up his game in numerous other ways, including rebounding and ballhandling.

Mitch also mentioned Kyrie as a talented loser also.

I'll say this about Towns and Wiggins defense. I've listened to a number of NBA experts or whatever on various podcasts that say they really weren't surprised the Wolves weren't better on defense last year even with Thibs. They said they were just too young and Thibs concepts are pretty complex so they just didn't think the young guys would all catch on quick enough. That doesn't let those guys off the hook but it does make a lot of sense and it feels good a number of people said they saw that coming. Britt Robson has basically complete belief Towns will figure it out defensively (even while saying he was f$@#ing terrible on defense last year) and he thinks Wiggins is better on that end than some people give credit for. That says something to me because that guy makes a bigger deal out of defense than LST does. Lol Regardless those guys have to step up and prove themselves. It's gonna help having some vets who are good and know what the heck they are doing. It's probably going to make Dieng look better too.

Monster - Interesting point about the complexity of Thibs' defense and how that might at least partially explain the defensive struggles of our two young talents. It tracks a comment coach Carlisle made the other day in summer league. He mentioned that the most important thing to do with young players is to keep it simple. Those were his exact words. One of the things that makes Carlisle and other top coaches so great over long stretches of time with multiple teams is their adaptability. Carlisle, Pop and others adapt to the talents or their players and, as Carlisle was suggesting, they also adapt to the age of their players. I don't think Thibs is flexible enough to adapt to anything. Hence, he's bringing in two vets who player under him for years. Hopefully with time and help from the two new vets our young guys will master Thibs' complex defensive schemes.

Interestingly, we don't have many young guys left. It's just KAT at 21/22 Jones at 21/22, Wiggins at 22/23. That's it for what you can call "young guys." Gorgui is 27 and Butler will be 28 when the season starts. Teague and Belly are both 29. Taj is 32 and Crawford is 37.

He can grow as an offensive coach as well as rotations but I hope Thibs doesn't adapt how he teaches his defense at all, he's the best in the league at it and has been for many years. Carlisle and Pop adapted by taking Thib's icing the pick and roll concepts, Tom is the originator. The last thing we need is to coddle KAT and Wiggins, if they can't figure it out they are the problem not Tom. All his other teams through the decades with the Knicks, Rockets, Celtics, and Bulls figured it out.

Bloop -- I don't know that I disagree with you on Thibs sticking to the letter of his defensive schemes. But I'll quibble with your list of "his teams." Only the Bulls fall into that category. His was an assistant with all the other teams and someone who played for the Rockets when Thibs was there commented on how Thibs was a very loyal soldier, carrying out the commands of the head coach. I think Rambis was an assistant coach on some very successful Laker teams. It's just too much of a stretch to extrapolate head coaching prowess from success during the coach's tenure as an assistant.

Jeff Van Gundy is on record saying he knew many years ago that THibs was a better coach than him and reiterated it after he was hired by the Wolves. I can't speak for the Knicks but I know for a fact that he ran the defensive schemes in Houston. Here is an article with quotes from players from all his teams gushing about his defensive chops, I think he was MUCH more than a loyal soldier.

https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2010/5/20/1480036/the-case-for-tom-thibodeau

interesting that even Kobe claims in this article Tom taught him most of his stuff and that was decades ago!

EDIT: it looks like Thibs was in fact running the defense since his days with the Knicks

"Thibodeau joined New York in 1995-1996, the same year as Van Gundy. This was the first season in which he was really credited with designing a defense from the ground up... and it was a good one.

Thibodeau has obviously never been a head coach, but we can splice together data from the years he was a lead defensive assistant (New York in the 90's, Houston in the 00's, and Boston since 2007). In 14 such seasons (7 New York, 4 Houston, 3 Boston), Thibodeau's teams posted an adjusted 80.5 defensive efficiency, better than the teams of any other [candidate with HC experience]."

That's crazy longevity, Tom has been leading top defensive squads before Greg Popvovich even became the head coach for the Spurs!

Great stuff, Bloop. One of the things I like about this board is how much I learn from the posts of others.

monsterpile wrote:Thibs is considered an innovator by coaches around the league. He isn't just going to do what he has done even defensively. He may still have a lot of the same principals but there has to be adjustments because of how the league has changed.

Carlisle and Pop are 2 of the best coaches in the league and both can do pretty much anything. We don't know for certain if Thibs is or isn't that guy at this point. Last year was a tough year to really make too many judgements IMO. Carlise and Pop for years always have a few guys that know the system lead and can be leaned on. Last year Thibs was in his first year with a crazy young inexperienced team and few vets. People can sure justifably quibble with some of what he did with the roster playing time working to maximize guys talents etc but he didn't have the luxury those other coaches have had for years.

Look at this roster now. Thibs basically turned this team from the up and coming team with little culture and infused it with top level player and culture guy in Butler. He added a guy that's been there done that in Teague. He adds a top glue guy that can do pretty much anything in Gibson and is familiar with him as well. Suddenly he has some guys he can absolutely lean on and build this roster. Some will say, "How good of a coach is he is he has to bring in players?" There is some truth to that but Abe always says players matter more than the coach. We all know the Wolves needed to add players to this roster to make it better both in on the court and provide some leadership. He seriously fast tracked his culture and it's possible it will bring some legit dividends including development of young players. One guy that may benefit from these move as much as anyone may be Tyus and he is the 2nd youngest guy on the team. People keep forgetting about Some of these moves clear the way for Tyus who is no slouch as a prospect. I've heard a few non Wolves NBA experts say he has legit potential to be a starter with this team long term.

One thing about Thibs is that he's not hard to figure out. You know where he stands as well as what and who he likes. For example, he made it clear from the get-go that he really liked Gorgui with early public praise and the contract extension. Apparently, he wasn't disappointed in Gorgui since he privately proclaimed Gorgui the most improved player on the roster. Not surprisingly we've never heard Gorgui's name mentioned in a single trade rumor. Contrast that with Ricky and even Zach and Dunn. All three names were mentioned in the media at one time or another in connection with potential trades dating back to draft day last summer. Interestingly, all three have now been dealt while KAT, Wiggins and Gorgui remain here. Thibs wisely held off on dealing Dunn, LaVine or Ricky last summer so he could see them first hand under his command. But I'm convinced he already had a good sense of who he saw as the most likely long-term building blocks for the team before last season began.

Speaking of Tyus, you could see how Thibs came to like his game based on the minutes he started to give Tyus later in the season -- including time playing along side the rookie, Dunn. As as I mentioned a couple months ago, my conversation with a couple folks inside the organization confirmed that Thibs came to really like Tyus. So here we are closing in on the end of July and Tyus is still here with no mention at any time of Tyus in any trade rumors. And while Thibs has been busy trying to build the bench with bigs and wings -- pursuing and/or signing Taj, Crawford, CJ Miles -- he doesn't appear to have been aggressively pursuing backup PGs. When you think about it, Tyus seems like Thibs' kind of player. He's small, but tough, hypercompetitive and fearless. I recall that game two years ago when he chased down a loose ball in competition with two bigger and probably faster opposing players, but somehow came up with the ball and then took it all the way to the hoop for a bucket. That image has stuck with me ever since. That's the kind of player he is and that's the kind of player Thibs likes.

So reading Bloop's post with all those testimonials and historical facts about Thibs as head coach, while also thinking about what Thibs has brought in this summer, I'm growing increasingly optimistic about this upcoming season.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Thibs is considered an innovator by coaches around the league. He isn't just going to do what he has done even defensively. He may still have a lot of the same principals but there has to be adjustments because of how the league has changed.

Carlisle and Pop are 2 of the best coaches in the league and both can do pretty much anything. We don't know for certain if Thibs is or isn't that guy at this point. Last year was a tough year to really make too many judgements IMO. Carlise and Pop for years always have a few guys that know the system lead and can be leaned on. Last year Thibs was in his first year with a crazy young inexperienced team and few vets. People can sure justifably quibble with some of what he did with the roster playing time working to maximize guys talents etc but he didn't have the luxury those other coaches have had for years.

Look at this roster now. Thibs basically turned this team from the up and coming team with little culture and infused it with top level player and culture guy in Butler. He added a guy that's been there done that in Teague. He adds a top glue guy that can do pretty much anything in Gibson and is familiar with him as well. Suddenly he has some guys he can absolutely lean on and build this roster. Some will say, "How good of a coach is he is he has to bring in players?" There is some truth to that but Abe always says players matter more than the coach. We all know the Wolves needed to add players to this roster to make it better both in on the court and provide some leadership. He seriously fast tracked his culture and it's possible it will bring some legit dividends including development of young players. One guy that may benefit from these move as much as anyone may be Tyus and he is the 2nd youngest guy on the team. People keep forgetting about Some of these moves clear the way for Tyus who is no slouch as a prospect. I've heard a few non Wolves NBA experts say he has legit potential to be a starter with this team long term.

One thing about Thibs is that he's not hard to figure out. You know where he stands as well as what and who he likes. For example, he made it clear from the get-go that he really liked Gorgui with early public praise and the contract extension. Apparently, he wasn't disappointed in Gorgui since he privately proclaimed Gorgui the most improved player on the roster. Not surprisingly we've never heard Gorgui's name mentioned in a single trade rumor. Contrast that with Ricky and even Zach and Dunn. All three names were mentioned in the media at one time or another in connection with potential trades dating back to draft day last summer. Interestingly, all three have now been dealt while KAT, Wiggins and Gorgui remain here. Thibs wisely held off on dealing Dunn, LaVine or Ricky last summer so he could see them first hand under his command. But I'm convinced he already had a good sense of who he saw as the most likely long-term building blocks for the team before last season began.

Speaking of Tyus, you could see how Thibs came to like his game based on the minutes he started to give Tyus later in the season -- including time playing along side the rookie, Dunn. As as I mentioned a couple months ago, my conversation with a couple folks inside the organization confirmed that Thibs came to really like Tyus. So here we are closing in on the end of July and Tyus is still here with no mention at any time of Tyus in any trade rumors. And while Thibs has been busy trying to build the bench with bigs and wings -- pursuing and/or signing Taj, Crawford, CJ Miles -- he doesn't appear to have been aggressively pursuing backup PGs. When you think about it, Tyus seems like Thibs' kind of player. He's small, but tough, hypercompetitive and fearless. I recall that game two years ago when he chased down a loose ball in competition with two bigger and probably faster opposing players, but somehow came up with the ball and then took it all the way to the hoop for a bucket. That image has stuck with me ever since. That's the kind of player he is and that's the kind of player Thibs likes.

So reading Bloop's post with all those testimonials and historical facts about Thibs as head coach, while also thinking about what Thibs has brought in this summer, I'm growing increasingly optimistic about this upcoming season.

It does seem pretty obvious that Thibs likes Dieng. A team like Chicago probably didnt have much interest in Dieng as they have a vet center and an up and coming group of bigs already. The center market isn't exactly hot right now so...maybe we shouldn't read too much I to that but I have heard NOTHING about Thibs having interest in moving Dieng at this point everyone that seems to know anything says the opposite.

As for Thibs liking Tyus I agree with you. I'll say this I'm not sure how any half brained basketball coach wouldn't like him (hyperbole font). He lead PGs in assist to turnover ratio last year and he hadn't turned 21 yet. His VORP was 0 which honestly is pretty good for a backup PG that's only 20. He averaged over 2 steals a game per 36mins and took a few charges. I've said it before this offseason, but I think whoever they add at PG is gonna basically get the Jordon Hill treatment or maybe the Cole Aldrich treatment) and will have to be ok just being on the roster. That's not a unique position for a few of these guys to be in. If they get the vet min they will be paid plenty. Getting a guy that's a volume 3 point shooter would make some sense because you COULD play that guy some SG minutes too. Butler's ability to make plays really opens things up and my guess is we will see Wiggins take another at least small step forward in that regard this year as well. Moving Rubio and Dunn this offseason in some ways added another young asset in Tyus who may have had a tough time seeing the court too much with everyone back and probably adding some sort of rotation guard to the roster in FA.

Monster and Lip- I certainly agree with you that Thibs likes Gorgui a lot...both on the court and off. I have heard that he is clearly the undisputed leader in the locker room (you wonder if this will change with the addition of three veterans), and he is one of the players Thibs seems to praise most. But I differ from you guys on how I think he perceives Tyus...I don't think he is anywhere near sold on him. I posted several times last year my frustration with Thibs' refusal to give Tyus minutes, and documented that at one point in the season the Wolves' record was close to .500 in games in which Tyus was given at least 10 minutes.

If you look at Tyus' minutes by month, the only month in which Thibs gave Tyus more than 15 MPG was February, where he played 18 MPG and put up 3.5 APG against only .7 TOs. And the reason for the increased minutes that month was clear...Zach was injured in early February, and Thibs needed to give Jones more minutes. In fact, my observation was that Thibs generally gave Tyus minutes only out of necessity...because a player got hurt, or he was unhappy with someone and wanted to send a message. Despite playing well as we were winning in February, Thibs only gave him less than 14 MPG the rest of the season as he started to play Dunn more (and our record predictable got much worse :().

I agree that Thibs' not publicly actively seeking another PG tells me that at least right now he plans to play him behind Teague. But that doesn't necessarily tell me that he has any more confidence in Tyus now than he did at the end of last season. I think it's more likely that Thibs does find a vet PG to back up Teague, or plays Teague 38-40 MPG.

Thibs has said publicly he is looking for another PG, along with two more wings...

That doesn't mean the new PG would beat out Tyus, but it seems clear Crawford is not being brought in to handle the point.

LST -- I don't think Thibs' decision to give Dunn more minutes at the expense of Tyus was a reflection of Thibs' view of Tyus. More likely it was Thibs trying to put his 1st round pick to the test. The guys I talked to said that Thibs and the entire coaching staff came to really like Tyus's game. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Thibs thinks as highly of Tyus as he does Gorgui. But I sense Thibs sees him as one of the guys he wants to move forward with. Will Thibs sign a vet PG? I think so, but it doesn't necessarily mean the vet we sign would be ahead of Tyus in the rotation.

lipoli390 wrote:LST -- I don't think Thibs' decision to give Dunn more minutes at the expense of Tyus was a reflection of Thibs' view of Tyus. More likely it was Thibs trying to put his 1st round pick to the test. The guys I talked to said that Thibs and the entire coaching staff came to really like Tyus's game. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Thibs thinks as highly of Tyus as he does Gorgui. But I sense Thibs sees him as one of the guys he wants to move forward with. Will Thibs sign a vet PG? I think so, but it doesn't necessarily mean the vet we sign would be ahead of Tyus in the rotation.

That's good to hear, Lip. We all know Tyus' physical limitations (although I think we tend to overstate them), but it's difficult to not recorgnize his skills and remarkable ability to win...he's won at every level, and made a bad Wolves' team better when he was on the court. Thibs' personnel and rotation decisions greatly frustrated me last year and I think cost us ten wins, and playing Dunn ahead of Tyus was one of his bad decisions. But at least the rationale of putting Dunn to the test at the expense of Tyus makes some sense. Dunn was his first big personnel decision and it's human nature to want to prove that you were right...and unfortunately Thibs seems to live in the upper quartile of stubbornness, so he will try even harder to show that he was right...even in the face of overwhelming evidence of not being right. Anyway, I'm quite comfortable with a Teague/Jones rotation at PG this season, and also expect Thibs to sign a veteran PG to play behind them.