Minnesota Sports Forum

TheSP wrote:At what point do you just blow it up, bring in a new front office, coach, and then trade everybody away for a completely fresh start? Most importantly, is it even possible to trade away Wiggins and that contract without giving up draft picks?

If Crawford thinks one year in the Wolves organization sucked he should try being a fan!

I think Wiggins is tradeable without giving up draft picks. We won't get the kind of return you'd expect for a 23-year old healthy, high-scoring former rookie-of-the-year. But we'd get some value back and wouldn't have to give up picks. Wiggins has been disappointing, but he's not Wes Johnson.

But I wouldn't blow up the roster. My first step would be to extend Towns as the key piece to build around. Then I'd replace Thibodeau as both PBO and head coach. I'd do it now, promoting Layden to PBO for now and elevating Flip's son as interim head coach. (As a practical matter, Thibodeau will be around at least until February and probably through the entire season.) Then I'd trade Butler for the best collection of picks/young talent I can get. I'd shop Teague as well as someone who could possibly get us some young talent and/or picks although probably not a lot of value in return. As for Wiggins, I'd make him available, but I'd be inclined to hold onto him until at least next summer when we get a new permanent PBO and head coach. I still see a possibility that Wiggins can get significantly better - especially with a head coach who knows how to best use him. His best season so far was as a rookie under Flip.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Deng is thibs' hail mary at fixing this lockerroom because he sure as hell cant and neither can jimmy. Both seem to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

I think it might be more than a coincidence that the bulls imploded as soon as deng left.

Jamal seems like a straight up guy abd was under the assumption that it was a minutes issue as to why he left. But, i think there might be more.

"Howard Beck
Howard Beck
@HowardBeck
The Jimmy Butler news (per
@JonKrawczynski
) underscores the discontent in Minnesota. As Jamal Crawford told me on yesterday's Full 48, "For me, it just wasn't a happy environment. It just wasn't happy"

https://mobile.twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/1041094973356224518?s=19

Just listening to the podcast and there isn't anything in it he hasn't said before.

True, but it was damning the first time he said it. Crawford was clearly fleeing what he called and unhappy environment. If we open our eyes, ears and minds to all the other things reported last season and this past summer, we have to acknowledge there are some serious issues with the atmospherics of this organization.

Have you listened to any of the podcasts where Crawford made these comments?

Not sure what your point is Monster. In this recent interview Crawford said, "for me, it just wasn't a happy enviroment. It just wasn't happy." That's pretty telling/damning. You said he didn't say anything now that he hasn't said before. I took your word for it, which means it was as damning then as now.

Kinda hard to make a point if I don't know if you have listened to these podcast or not. That's why I you asked a very simple question.

Can Crawford really be considered a reliable source of information? He thought he should play more than 10 minutes a game. Clearly he doesn't live in reality.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Deng is thibs' hail mary at fixing this lockerroom because he sure as hell cant and neither can jimmy. Both seem to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

I think it might be more than a coincidence that the bulls imploded as soon as deng left.

Jamal seems like a straight up guy abd was under the assumption that it was a minutes issue as to why he left. But, i think there might be more.

"Howard Beck
Howard Beck
@HowardBeck
The Jimmy Butler news (per
@JonKrawczynski
) underscores the discontent in Minnesota. As Jamal Crawford told me on yesterday's Full 48, "For me, it just wasn't a happy environment. It just wasn't happy"

https://mobile.twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/1041094973356224518?s=19

Just listening to the podcast and there isn't anything in it he hasn't said before.

True, but it was damning the first time he said it. Crawford was clearly fleeing what he called and unhappy environment. If we open our eyes, ears and minds to all the other things reported last season and this past summer, we have to acknowledge there are some serious issues with the atmospherics of this organization.

Have you listened to any of the podcasts where Crawford made these comments?

Not sure what your point is Monster. In this recent interview Crawford said, "for me, it just wasn't a happy enviroment. It just wasn't happy." That's pretty telling/damning. You said he didn't say anything now that he hasn't said before. I took your word for it, which means it was as damning then as now.

I still don't know if you have listened to these podcasts or not.

Not yet. I read the quote. Is the quote inaccurate? I'll probably listen to the podcast, but based on your post it sounds like I won't hear anything new so I'm not sure it's worth it.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Deng is thibs' hail mary at fixing this lockerroom because he sure as hell cant and neither can jimmy. Both seem to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

I think it might be more than a coincidence that the bulls imploded as soon as deng left.

Jamal seems like a straight up guy abd was under the assumption that it was a minutes issue as to why he left. But, i think there might be more.

"Howard Beck
Howard Beck
@HowardBeck
The Jimmy Butler news (per
@JonKrawczynski
) underscores the discontent in Minnesota. As Jamal Crawford told me on yesterday's Full 48, "For me, it just wasn't a happy environment. It just wasn't happy"

https://mobile.twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/1041094973356224518?s=19

Just listening to the podcast and there isn't anything in it he hasn't said before.

True, but it was damning the first time he said it. Crawford was clearly fleeing what he called and unhappy environment. If we open our eyes, ears and minds to all the other things reported last season and this past summer, we have to acknowledge there are some serious issues with the atmospherics of this organization.

Have you listened to any of the podcasts where Crawford made these comments?

Not sure what your point is Monster. In this recent interview Crawford said, "for me, it just wasn't a happy enviroment. It just wasn't happy." That's pretty telling/damning. You said he didn't say anything now that he hasn't said before. I took your word for it, which means it was as damning then as now.

I still don't know if you have listened to these podcasts or not.

Not yet. I read the quote. Is the quote inaccurate? I'll probably listen to the podcast, but based on your post it sounds like I won't hear anything new so I'm not sure it's worth it.

I personally think it's worth listening to these podcast for context if you have the time. Crawford is always a fun listen there are a couple fun stories I don't think I have heard before.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Deng is thibs' hail mary at fixing this lockerroom because he sure as hell cant and neither can jimmy. Both seem to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

I think it might be more than a coincidence that the bulls imploded as soon as deng left.

Jamal seems like a straight up guy abd was under the assumption that it was a minutes issue as to why he left. But, i think there might be more.

"Howard Beck
Howard Beck
@HowardBeck
The Jimmy Butler news (per
@JonKrawczynski
) underscores the discontent in Minnesota. As Jamal Crawford told me on yesterday's Full 48, "For me, it just wasn't a happy environment. It just wasn't happy"

https://mobile.twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/1041094973356224518?s=19

Just listening to the podcast and there isn't anything in it he hasn't said before.

True, but it was damning the first time he said it. Crawford was clearly fleeing what he called and unhappy environment. If we open our eyes, ears and minds to all the other things reported last season and this past summer, we have to acknowledge there are some serious issues with the atmospherics of this organization.

Have you listened to any of the podcasts where Crawford made these comments?

Not sure what your point is Monster. In this recent interview Crawford said, "for me, it just wasn't a happy enviroment. It just wasn't happy." That's pretty telling/damning. You said he didn't say anything now that he hasn't said before. I took your word for it, which means it was as damning then as now.

I still don't know if you have listened to these podcasts or not.

Not yet. I read the quote. Is the quote inaccurate? I'll probably listen to the podcast, but based on your post it sounds like I won't hear anything new so I'm not sure it's worth it.

I personally think it's worth listening to these podcast for context if you have the time. Crawford is always a fun listen there are a couple fun stories I don't think I have heard before.

OK. Now you've made listening seem worthwhile. I'll check it out. I've always liked Crawford as a person. Very articulate and seems like a really good guy.

thedoper wrote:Can Crawford really be considered a reliable source of information? He thought he should play more than 10 minutes a game. Clearly he doesn't live in reality.

Lol. Actually, I think he can be relied on to give an account of how he felt about the environment here. Can we assume that it was a generally unpleasant environment for other players? Hard to know, but based on what we've heard from multiple sources it rings true. In fact Crawford's characterization of the environmental matches the description Thorpe says he's heard from players. Butler's obviously not happy and neither is KAT. Teague was clearly frustrated last season. So there's more than enough smoke to tell us there's some fire validating Crawford's characterization.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Can Crawford really be considered a reliable source of information? He thought he should play more than 10 minutes a game. Clearly he doesn't live in reality.

Lol. Actually, I think he can be relied on to give an account of how he felt about the environment here. Can we assume that it was a generally unpleasant environment for other players? Hard to know, but based on what we've heard from multiple sources it rings true. In fact Crawford's characterization of the environmental matches the description Thorpe says he's heard from players. Butler's obviously not happy and neither is KAT. Teague was clearly frustrated last season. So there's more than enough smoke to tell us there's some fire validating Crawford's characterization.

I hear you. I ultimately think like it will come down to winning. They dropped a lot of games they should have won last year, which is why I think few people were satisfied with the vast improvement on paper.

This team has ample talent to bring it all together. If they do Butler would be stupid to cast his lot with a bunch of vets that can't beat Golden State. Truth is if they improve further this year this is the best situation for Butler because it would mean that Towns and Wiggins did exactly what he wanted and the future is bright. If Towns and Wiggins don't improve we need butler to leave because the rebuild is on. His posturing now does nothing from a team building perspective, it is all just about his personal plan for his future.

I actually think it is Butler angling for a max deal no matter what the situation. If we underachieve he set himself apart as the hard worker amongst the slouches, if we win it was because of him. I think like most his ego is a bit inflated, but compared to the rest of the stars in this league it's not complete delusion. He made us a lot better and would long term.

Ultimately nothing changes, KAT and Wiggins need to be good enough to make us a playoff team without Butler. It's the only way we become a destination for players of Jimmy's caliber.

For a guy who criticized smiling Wes Johnson as much as you did Lip along with being critical of any players who smile on the bench in a loss you sure do put a lot of emphasis on a happy environment being important. I really don't get how the people not happy with Thibs and how last year ended want anybody to be happy in the organization. Everyone should be pissed and trying to do better and push each other to be better. But go ahead. Push out all the players and the coach who are actually winning us games and stick with the young happy go lucky guys who can't consistently win games. As long as we are happy again everything will work out. We don't need adversity and accountability to grow, we just need to bring back the silver spoons so Towns can help us miss the playoffs but be happy.

There will be more smiles after Thibs is fired.