Keeping Dieng and Bazz Long Term

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

After they hit their second contract (or third in Ricky's case)

KAT - $30 mil
LaVine]- $25 mil
Wig - $25 mil
Ricky - $15 mil
Gorgy - $18 mil
Belly - $10 mil
Dunn - $15 mil
Bazz - $10 mil
Aldrich - $8 mil

Its going to be tough to keep everyone....
$156 mil

I'm starting to think Wiggins is the odd man out.......I don't want to lose Ricky for some reason. He's the heart ans soul. Hopefully he'll give us a deal and sign for $15 mill a year....

Wiggins motor is the question mark....

No way Wolves are going to keep both Rubio and Dunn on big contracts. It's OK now with Dunn on a rookie deal. But in 3-4 years the choice would have to be made.

...assuming Dunn ascends to a starter-worthy level. If he gets good, then I agree we're going to have to pull the trigger on one of these two guys.

[kekgeek]

I'm not going to go back and dig out the salary cap thread, but we are only going to be able to sign one of Gorgui, Bazz and Ricky (when his contract is up) if G and Bazz command large contracts. Here's whar I guess is going to happen. As a complete 2-way 6'11" player, I'm afraid Gorgui will earn close to a max contract...I don't think the Wolves can afford to pay him anything close to a max if they also want to gave max or near max contracts to KAT, Wig and Zach. So Gorgui will be gone. Bazz is a scorer who really doesn't help a team much beyond that, so I think we will be able to sign him as a 6th man for a medium-sized contract. Then, there's Rubio. My hope is that Ricky will enjoy the success the Wolves are enjoying, and grant a home town discount that will allow the wolves to stay under the lux threshold...I think that's the only way they keep him.

This roster is set up for many years of success and even challenging for multiple championships. But salary cap management is going to be the key to continued success, and as much as I like Gorgui, I don't see a reasonable way of keeping him at the salary he is going to command.

My thing is though is it possible for a team to compete for a championship without having multiple max contract guys and go into the lux tax.

Warriors will have 4 max guys (curry, Durant, Thompson, green)

Spurs are a rarity and have 2 (Aldridge, Lenard)

Clippers with 3 (jordan, paul, griffin)

Cavs (love, LBJ, IRVING)

All those teams also have players in their 2nd max deal and the wolves won't have that problem.

One thing what could be huge is the new CBA, just a prediction there will be another amnesty clause. Meaning we could sign dieng in the offseason (new CBA not in affect yet) and if we are in a numbers crunch we can either trade him or amnesty cut him.

This season will tell us a lot if the wolves can compete with this current group I believe taylor will pay up if we don't don't see him spending money in gorgui.

Also if we are a top 5 team in the west or 50+ wins (I don't see it) I am a gambler and I would resign gorgui and sign a max type FA. And go for a championship in the next 2 years after this season and if that fails we regroup and figure it out but all I know is it is a lot easier to regroup when you have a top 5 player in KAT.

One thing you don't build a championship team for a 10 year run (only 5 players have played on the same team for 10+ years: dirk, parker, ginobili, Collison, haslhem) you build for 2-5 year runs and regroup if those plans change.

[TheFuture]

It's just really hard to wrap my mind around all the numbers they have jumped so much. In addition it's quite possible the cap will keep rising at a pretty healthy rate. Let's say we sign Dieng to a straight up 19 million per year similar to what Biyombo got last year at 17 million per but I added 2 million for the cap going up again. Let's say the cap keeps going up. And teams are basically paying at lest 15 million for anyone that's starting caliber player and mid level is around 10 million. Maybe Dieng would be seemingly affordable. Think about how we thought the money Prk got was way too much at the time. Obviously it was still a bad contract because of health but right now if he was even able to play 55 games effectively he would be a big time bargain and a maybe even a trade chip. It's all kinda relative and difficult to really know what the Wolves and other team what they should do. Let's hope Dieng wants to come back and signs a healthy but someone what manageable deal before he hits RFA assuming he plays well this season and proves to be a legit piece going forward. If things go well there will be lots of guys to worry about paying.

The cap is going up again next year, but wasn't it supposed to plateau or drop after that?

[TheFuture]

Giving Dieng the max or near the max would be idiotic. If he gets that in the open market let him. He's becoming a nice player but his contributions can be replaced in free agency.

It's not idiotic at all. A good two-way big is an asset even on a big contract. You can trade him when the payroll in getting out of hand and get other assets. You don't let good players go because of money.

I agree. 2 way near seven foot players are harder to find thus easier to move if need be.

Also, most of this rubio talk should be decided within the next two years after we make the playoffs and we see how he affects our team on the big stage. If our big 3 of lavine, Wiggins, and Kat grow as we expect then I see rubio as more expendable than Dieng. At that point we would be better suited with a reliable 3 pt shooter at pg ala Derrick Fischer rather than a pg who is ineffective on offense without controlling the ball.

[Monster]

It's just really hard to wrap my mind around all the numbers they have jumped so much. In addition it's quite possible the cap will keep rising at a pretty healthy rate. Let's say we sign Dieng to a straight up 19 million per year similar to what Biyombo got last year at 17 million per but I added 2 million for the cap going up again. Let's say the cap keeps going up. And teams are basically paying at lest 15 million for anyone that's starting caliber player and mid level is around 10 million. Maybe Dieng would be seemingly affordable. Think about how we thought the money Prk got was way too much at the time. Obviously it was still a bad contract because of health but right now if he was even able to play 55 games effectively he would be a big time bargain and a maybe even a trade chip. It's all kinda relative and difficult to really know what the Wolves and other team what they should do. Let's hope Dieng wants to come back and signs a healthy but someone what manageable deal before he hits RFA assuming he plays well this season and proves to be a legit piece going forward. If things go well there will be lots of guys to worry about paying.

The cap is going up again next year, but wasn't it supposed to plateau or drop after that?

Yeah it might but there has also been talk about doing advertising on jerseys and that would likely bring in a decent chunk of money. Really my point is it's difficult to predict what is going to happen but you have to make your best guess. Thibs and Layden didn't sign any prohibitive long term deals so that's a positive and I think they were clearly looking ahead when they did that.

[Lipoli390]

The Wolves will have to make decisions in stages.

First stage will be deciding this season whether to extend Gorgui, Bazz or both. Knowing that Wiggins and LaVine will be up for extension next season I think it's clear we can't extend both Gorgui and Bazz this season. If the two, Gorgui is clearly the better player and far more important to this team long term. I think he's important enough that we should pay him whatever it takes and worry about affording Wiggins, LaVine and KAT later.

Next stage will be next season's decision on Wiggins and LaVine. At that point the Wolves might need to decide to let one of them go to make sure there's enough cap space left over to pay KAT and stay under the luxury tax threshold. But there might be a way to sign all three after extending Gorgui. There are a number of unknowns, including what the tax level will be and whether we might be able to sign any Zach or Andrew for less than max.

The final stage will be extending KAT and there's no doubt he'll command a max deal.

[Lipoli390]

The Wolves will have to make decisions in stages.

First stage will be deciding this season whether to extend Gorgui, Bazz or both. Knowing that Wiggins and LaVine will be up for extension next season I think it's clear we can't extend both Gorgui and Bazz this season. If the two, Gorgui is clearly the better player and far more important to this team long term. I think he's important enough that we should pay him whatever it takes and worry about affording Wiggins, LaVine and KAT later.

[rapsuperstar31]

These are the salary cap projections at the moment

o 2018-19 salary cap and luxury tax: $108 million/$130 million

o 2019-20 salary cap and luxury tax: $109 million/$132 million

o 2020-21 salary cap and luxury tax: $114 million/$139 million

If we are in the 160 million dollar range (about 20 million above the cap) we are still in better shape than the Nets were a few years ago when the luxury tax was 71 million and they had a salary of 98 million. If we want to compete in our market we can not be afraid of paying the luxury tax. If we screw this up and get rid of Wiggins like Oklahoma got rid of Harden we may never recover from it. Free agents will have another reason, to not want to come here if we are not fully committed to putting the best product out there. This is our best chance to be among the elite for years to come and if Glen isn't willing to pay the tax knowing it will be coming in a few years he needs to sell the team right now.

[Lipoli390]

Thanks for posting the numbers, rap. Going over the luxury cap threshold isn't just a pocketbook issue for Glen. It also triggers some rules that limit the team's free agent flexibility. At the end of the day, I agree that we might be entering a once-in-a-franchise opportunity that would argue strongly for going over the luxury tax threshold in a few years. I think Glen is ready to do it if the situation cries out for it. But it's also worth trying to get to the same place of championship contension without getting into the luxury tax zone.

[Carlos Danger]

I'd assume at this point they run with both Dieng and Bazz until mid-season/trade deadline. At that point, Thibbs would have a pretty good idea if they are worth another deal or should be moved. That also hedges against regression/injury. I like both players. I see some value in keeping guys together. But I also realize these are all players Thibbs inherited, so some guys will get moved for players he likes better. Will be interesting to see how things play out. Now that the Vikings laid an egg, I'm ready to turn more attention to the Wolves. Good timing with the start of real games this week!