well I am am Sam Mitchell

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

I like Tay, but not at the expense of more playing time for the younger guys, so maybe this move will help in that respect.

[Monster]

This is almost definitely what Martin wanted. Why wouldn't he want to start...

I think he plays well (better) in this role because he won't be playing as a bitter veteran hunting for shots. It's more of a "you got what you wanted... now what are you going to do with it?"

And getting set up more with the starting lineup instead of battling Payne, Muhammad, LaVine on the second unit... can only help.

It's all fool's gold. Everybody in the L knows Martin's limitations by this point. But maybe he gets going a bit so when he's traded (AND HE IS GETTING TRADED), the Wolves might get slightly more for him.

I'd prefer to see LaVine start. But I'm not completely against this move... mostly indifferent. Because as noted... it's temporary.

Abe I'm just curious about how sure you are that Martin will be traded therefore I ask you this...if at the end of the season one of the below scenarios were found out to be true rate how shocked you would be.

1. Martin was on the roster past the trade deadline.

2. The Wolves made the playoffs

3. We find out via LST's contacts that Tim/Doug regularly puts down bets in Vegas against the Wolves.

[AbeVigodaLive]

This is almost definitely what Martin wanted. Why wouldn't he want to start...

I think he plays well (better) in this role because he won't be playing as a bitter veteran hunting for shots. It's more of a "you got what you wanted... now what are you going to do with it?"

And getting set up more with the starting lineup instead of battling Payne, Muhammad, LaVine on the second unit... can only help.

It's all fool's gold. Everybody in the L knows Martin's limitations by this point. But maybe he gets going a bit so when he's traded (AND HE IS GETTING TRADED), the Wolves might get slightly more for him.

I'd prefer to see LaVine start. But I'm not completely against this move... mostly indifferent. Because as noted... it's temporary.

Abe I'm just curious about how sure you are that Martin will be traded therefore I ask you this...if at the end of the season one of the below scenarios were found out to be true rate how shocked you would be.

1. Martin was on the roster past the trade deadline.

2. The Wolves made the playoffs

3. We find out via LST's contacts that Tim/Doug regularly puts down bets in Vegas against the Wolves.

2 is clearly the most unlikely.

I'm convinced Tim is Glen Taylor.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Ultimately I think this is a temporary move with either Bazz or Lavine starting next to Wiggins but most likely Lavine. My guess this newest lineup will feature a bit more Miller as PG since there will be times when Prince/Bazz will not matchup will against a bench shooting guard defensively. This may ease Miller/Tyus into the backup PG role and see what works there.

Exactly Monster. For those of you fuming over this move, the trickle-down effect is that LaVine will almost certainly see more time at the 2 and Miller or Jones more time at the 1. That's a good thing for the 2nd unit in my opinion.

Mitchell does himself no favors though with how he makes declarative statements to the media (and therefore to the fans), only to reverse course literally days later. Inserting Martin into the lineup for Prince does two things which run counter to Mitchell's prior narrative: 1) considerably weakens the defense of our starting unit, and 2) makes us smaller by moving Wiggins to the 3. I get his logic on the move, but it does run counter to the logic he used justifying his original starting unit.

Mitchell would have been better off simply telling us fans that hey, I'm still learning about the team and will try some different things throughout the first part of the season until I see what units really work together. Expect things to be fluid.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Ultimately I think this is a temporary move with either Bazz or Lavine starting next to Wiggins but most likely Lavine. My guess this newest lineup will feature a bit more Miller as PG since there will be times when Prince/Bazz will not matchup will against a bench shooting guard defensively. This may ease Miller/Tyus into the backup PG role and see what works there.

Exactly Monster. For those of you fuming over this move, the trickle-down effect is that LaVine will almost certainly see more time at the 2 and Miller or Jones more time at the 1. That's a good thing for the 2nd unit in my opinion.

Mitchell does himself no favors though with how he makes declarative statements to the media (and therefore to the fans), only to reverse course literally days later. Inserting Martin into the lineup for Prince does two things which run counter to Mitchell's prior narrative: 1) considerably weakens the defense of our starting unit, and 2) makes us smaller by moving Wiggins to the 3. I get his logic on the move, but it does run counter to the logic he used justifying his original starting unit.

Mitchell would have been better off simply telling us fans that hey, I'm still learning about the team and will try some different things throughout the first part of the season until I see what units really work together. Expect things to be fluid.

I don't get as hung up on Mitchell's words as most fans do...only concerned about his actions, Although I don't understand this move, I'm not up in arms about it, and I like the fact that Sam is flexible enough to try different lineups. Half of our roster is new this year so it's not like we have a set lineup like the Spurs. It's time for experimentation, and that's what Sam is doing. Let's see how this new iteration works out.

Monster and Q, I think you're right that Martin moving into the starting lineup signals more Zach at the 2 and more Milller/Tyus backing up Ricky. I get a kick out of the bolded statement above though, that Miller sees the court because Bazz/Tay may not match up well against some lineups...makes it sound like Miller is a defensive answer for us, when the reality is he guards PGs about as well as a potted plant. That's why I like Zach at PG. So much of team defense starts with a PG who can prevent penetration, and while Zach isn't Ricky, he's also far from Miller/Jones.

[60WinTim]

I gotta admit, monster, you were the one at the beginning of the season who said Prince in the starting lineup would be temporary. But I think you will be wrong about this change making room for Miller/Tyus. It looks to me like Zach will continue to back up Ricky at PG, although he might get a few more minutes at SG as well. Sam indicated Bazz is the one who benefits most with increased minutes.

[Monster]

I gotta admit, monster, you were the one at the beginning of the season who said Prince in the starting lineup would be temporary. But I think you will be wrong about this change making room for Miller/Tyus. It looks to me like Zach will continue to back up Ricky at PG, although he might get a few more minutes at SG as well. Sam indicated Bazz is the one who benefits most with increased minutes.

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant by making room for Tyus/Miller. I am not suggesting they are going to be the backup option at PG but moving Martin into the starting lineup WITH Wiggins with Lavine as the backup PG who is gonna be the backup SG? In some cases it will be Wiggins as he will play with Bazz but there will be times when teams are playing a combo guard off the bench and putting a PG in there is a solid option. I am not of the same opinion as LST thinking Miller is a complete negative on the defensive end. Neither he or Tyus are good but there are some bad perimeter defenders on this team so you pick your poison. Basically moving Martin into the starting lineup opens up a few spot minutes here and there for another PG that may previously gone to Prince and that may ultimately lead to be a larger role for those PGs if Lavine ends up as the starting SG.

Another consideration for this switch and what it could mean beyond just Prince...

Sam might be feeling that his defense is close enough to where he wants it to be even if he puts in a lesser player but is now realizing his offense isn't and needs to switch things up to get that part of it rolling. That may mean more of Andre miller playing minutes instead of Prince and more of Bazz instead of Prince. The Detroit game was brutal on that end at times and Sam (and Lowe in all his spots between quarters) has been saying they want pace and moving the ball. This change in he rotation could facilitate that happening more in the different units. Martin is a shot hunter but he also can play within a system (he likes to move without the ball a lot) and he can space the floor for the starting unit. He has also been a guy pushing the ball up the court. Prince and/or Miller will help the 2nd unit move the ball more.

[thedoper]

I don't think this is too confusing. Bazz is getting 17mins a game. That is not enough for his development. Lavine is getting 24 and if he keeps playing well will likely get more but that seems ballpark what I expect for him. There needed to be a way to find more minutes for Bazz. I am glad Mitchell is thinking about this. I think it was fairly obvious that Tay starting was temporary and think it is a good strategy to look at getting Bazz more minutes. He is shooting 50% from the field.

[fondey [enjin:6644772]]

While I don't really understand this move (I don't know why you break up a starting unit that has been performing), we may be missing the real reason for this move...it may be Glen/Milt mandated. They very likely want to move Martin sometime this season, and the return was going to be paltry if he continued to play the way he has been. This may be more about trying to maximize Martin's trade value.

Can't agree more. Martin's numbers have been horrible with the 2nd unit. They should improve playing with the starters (they cant get any worse). Then, we get as much for him in a trade and open up minutes for Lavine and Bazz.

I suspect ulterior motives have been behind all of this starting lineup mess. I sucks for Sam because he look's pretty stupid each time it happens

[TAFKASP]

I suspect ulterior motives have been behind all of this starting lineup mess. I sucks for Sam because he look's pretty stupid each time it happens

I don't see anything "stupid" in Sam's lineup changes, in each case he has a reason why he thinks a particular lineup will be better. In the case for starting Prince over Lavine it was to set a defensive tone for the team, and I'd be hard pressed to suggest that failed. Many here pointed out how offensively challenged that lineup was going to be, but considering how few minutes KG/Prince played to start the game all the blame for the offense cannot fall on them.

Now he recognizes the team needs more offense out of the starters, and it would have been fair to call him stupid if he did not. Moving Zach to the starting 2 spot makes a lot of sense in the same ways it does for Martin. The difference as I see it is Martin is largely a selfish player, and moving Zach still leaves the problem with Martin/Bazz/Dieng all playing for their own reasons and not team reasons. Removing Martin helps solve some of that, but like every other move ever made their will be other areas that will likely regress, such is life.

Name me another head coach who's team does not include Steph Curry that has made lineup changes, does that make them stupid for not getting it right the first time? This may or may not work, but there is IMO good logic behind the move, just as there is behind the counter argument for starting Zach instead.

No need to be calling people names you big doo doo head!