Camden wrote:
Saying Andrew Wiggins is a better fit for the Cavs than Kevin Love right now is absurd, by the way. LeBron's on the back stretch of his career. Waiting for Wiggins to mature his game and body isn't ideal in championship-or-bust situations. You need a guy to legitimately help carry the load. Love is that guy.
I wouldn't call it absurd. I am sure Wiggins would have developed just fine on the Cavs and might have even developed better because he wouldn't be asked to carry the load and would be able to focus on parts of his game. I think it is fair to consider there is not as much of a drop off from Love to TT and there is from Wiggins to Shumpert.
Mmm, I feel like we are projecting the player we all hope Wiggins will become into something he was not last season. While I have no doubt in my mind that Wiggins will eventually be a much better player than Shumpert, to say that last year there was a large gap between them is simply not true. Shumpert was the better defender, rebounder, and 3-point shooter. Wiggins was a better volume scorer, but not very efficient. He shot 16% from 3 after the all-star break. LeBron needs shooters around him to optimize the offense. That's not something Wiggins could have helped with last season.
Q12543 wrote:Mmm, I feel like we are projecting the player we all hope Wiggins will become into something he was not last season. While I have no doubt in my mind that Wiggins will eventually be a much better player than Shumpert, to say that last year there was a large gap between them is simply not true. Shumpert was the better defender, rebounder, and 3-point shooter. Wiggins was a better volume scorer, but not very efficient. He shot 16% from 3 after the all-star break. LeBron needs shooters around him to optimize the offense. That's not something Wiggins could have helped with last season.
Q - I get your point, but i think you make Shumpert the focus of this team and he wouldn't have been ale to do what Wiggins did. I think Wiggins would have excelled being asked to do less.
Q12543 wrote:Mmm, I feel like we are projecting the player we all hope Wiggins will become into something he was not last season. While I have no doubt in my mind that Wiggins will eventually be a much better player than Shumpert, to say that last year there was a large gap between them is simply not true. Shumpert was the better defender, rebounder, and 3-point shooter. Wiggins was a better volume scorer, but not very efficient. He shot 16% from 3 after the all-star break. LeBron needs shooters around him to optimize the offense. That's not something Wiggins could have helped with last season.
Q - I get your point, but i think you make Shumpert the focus of this team and he wouldn't have been ale to do what Wiggins did. I think Wiggins would have excelled being asked to do less.
But the question isn't how Shumpert would fare on the Wolves, but how Wiggins would fare in a Shumpert-like role with the Cavs, where LeBron is clearly the #1 guy.
In the few times Wiggins played with a full Wolves squad and he wasn't the focus of the offense, he struggled to really make a difference. I harped a lot last year on the fact he needed to improve a lot more off the ball - as a rebounder, as a cutter, as a floor spacer, running the floor, etc. He had a tendency to disappear and not impact games unless he was getting the ball spoonfed to him. Shumpert has been playing the complementary role for years. I highly doubt Wiggins would have had much more of an impact on Cleveland than Shumpert did.
Camden wrote:The Cavs were rolling before the injury bug killed their season (not winning the NBA Finals). I don't know how many times it needs to be said, but I'll say it again. Cleveland went 34-11 after acquiring Mosgov last year. He was the main piece that made their defense respectable, no disrespect to Shumpert, and in turn gave the Cavs someone to make up for Kyrie and Kevin's defensive lapses. All the pieces in place fit together perfectly. What's scary is if that team stays relatively healthy, they should be really deep. Varejao and Thompson off the bench isn't fair. Mo Williams, Matt Dellavedova and J.R. Smith can provide the streaky scoring a good bench needs. Not to mention Richard Jefferson will help them in the playoffs too.
Saying Andrew Wiggins is a better fit for the Cavs than Kevin Love right now is absurd, by the way. LeBron's on the back stretch of his career. Waiting for Wiggins to mature his game and body isn't ideal in championship-or-bust situations. You need a guy to legitimately help carry the load. Love is that guy.
exactly, the narrative that Love was a bad fit pretty much became false after the ASB. Yea Lebron carried the Cavs big time in the finals without Love or Irving, but as we saw, he just couldn't keep up with that huge load and the Warriors won. Doubtful he could of kept that up the entire playoffs if he didn't have Love or Irving even against the shitty east teams
I think Q makes a good point about saying Shumpertt should be given credit. I will say that it's worth considering wether Wiggins may have had better 3 point percentages as a supporting player. It's also a little tough because Shupert was often not fully healthy with that shoulder. It's tough to imagine Wiggins playing anywhere near the defense Shumpert provided.
I think for me this come down to what happens beyond last season. I wasn't sure the Cavs could win the championship last year with a new squad coming together possible injuries etc but they overachieved bigtime all things considered. What would they gotten out of a 2nd year wiggins this year and maybe some more cap space to work with? The Mozgov JR Smith Shumpert trades really fit in well with the trade for Love. That just shows how many factors go into how a trade works out for a team outside of just the player or players received and sent out.
monsterpile wrote:I think Q makes a good point about saying Shumpertt should be given credit. I will say that it's worth considering wether Wiggins may have had better 3 point percentages as a supporting player. It's also a little tough because Shupert was often not fully healthy with that shoulder. It's tough to imagine Wiggins playing anywhere near the defense Shumpert provided.
I think for me this come down to what happens beyond last season. I wasn't sure the Cavs could win the championship last year with a new squad coming together possible injuries etc but they overachieved bigtime all things considered. What would they gotten out of a 2nd year wiggins this year and maybe some more cap space to work with? The Mozgov JR Smith Shumpert trades really fit in well with the trade for Love. That just shows how many factors go into how a trade works out for a team outside of just the player or players received and sent out.
They really wouldn't of had extra capspace with Wiggins instead of Love. They still would of had two max players on their team. Only reason why they could give Love the max while over the cap is because of his bird rights. Which is why it was so stupid that Cavs fans suggested that they just sign Love the next offseason when they couldn't of
Camden wrote:
Saying Andrew Wiggins is a better fit for the Cavs than Kevin Love right now is absurd, by the way. LeBron's on the back stretch of his career. Waiting for Wiggins to mature his game and body isn't ideal in championship-or-bust situations. You need a guy to legitimately help carry the load. Love is that guy.
I wouldn't call it absurd. I am sure Wiggins would have developed just fine on the Cavs and might have even developed better because he wouldn't be asked to carry the load and would be able to focus on parts of his game. I think it is fair to consider there is not as much of a drop off from Love to TT and there is from Wiggins to Shumpert.
Right on Bleed. If Love was such a perfect fit for the Cavs last year, then why was he sitting at the end of games during the regular season? And how in the world did the Cavs go 8-2 in the playoffs without him to reach the finals? Love is a good player. But he didn't look like an integral piece of the Cavs to me. LeBron and Kyrie were the two players driving that machine and everyone else was complimentary. That doesn't mean guys like Love didn't play a part and help. But losing Love was not the same as losing Kyrie or LeBron. You can argue that Blatt didn't use him properly. But I could argue that comments like LeBron tweeting Love needs to quit trying to "Fit out" and instead fit in mean it was far from a perfect match like some of you are making it out to be.
Camden wrote:
Saying Andrew Wiggins is a better fit for the Cavs than Kevin Love right now is absurd, by the way. LeBron's on the back stretch of his career. Waiting for Wiggins to mature his game and body isn't ideal in championship-or-bust situations. You need a guy to legitimately help carry the load. Love is that guy.
I wouldn't call it absurd. I am sure Wiggins would have developed just fine on the Cavs and might have even developed better because he wouldn't be asked to carry the load and would be able to focus on parts of his game. I think it is fair to consider there is not as much of a drop off from Love to TT and there is from Wiggins to Shumpert.
Right on Bleed. If Love was such a perfect fit for the Cavs last year, then why was he sitting at the end of games during the regular season? And how in the world did the Cavs go 8-2 in the playoffs without him to reach the finals? Love is a good player. But he didn't look like an integral piece of the Cavs to me. LeBron and Kyrie were the two players driving that machine and everyone else was complimentary. That doesn't mean guys like Love didn't play a part and help. But losing Love was not the same as losing Kyrie or LeBron. You can argue that Blatt didn't use him properly. But I could argue that comments like LeBron tweeting Love needs to quit trying to "Fit out" and instead fit in mean it was far from a perfect match like some of you are making it out to be.
it was like 2-3 games he sat the 4th quarter. You act like he always got benched in crunch time. They went 8-2 without him because Lebron is the best player in the league, not because Love isn't valuable. They probably win the title with Love
Also it he was such a bad fit and miserable and didn't get along with teammates as much as people thought, he wouldn't of resigned, nor would the Cavs have given him the max. So that also is an outdated narrative
