Okogie

[Monster]

Some interesting stuff in here about the Rookie including what's Thibs communicated to him in a timeout after Okogie turned down a shot.

https://www.twincities.com/2018/10/23/timberwolves-like-what-theyre-getting-from-rookie-guard-josh-okogie/

[Lipoli390]

Some interesting stuff in here about the Rookie including what's Thibs communicated to him in a timeout after Okogie turned down a shot.

https://www.twincities.com/2018/10/23/timberwolves-like-what-theyre-getting-from-rookie-guard-josh-okogie/

Yes, some interesting stuff. Thanks for posting, Monster.

Thibodeau's comment to Okogie reminds me of something interesting that I left out of my game report. When Okogie came off the court for the last time against Indiana, Thibs put his arm around him and talked to him for about 15 seconds. The guy sitting in front of me turned around and said, "that's the first time I've ever seen Thibodeau put his arm around any player during a game." It was the first time for me as well. In fact, I've never seen Thibodeau as much as pat a player on the back during a game. When you think about Thibodeau putting his arm around Okogie during the game, combined with him telling Okogie to shoot, his noticeably quieter demeanor on the sideline, and the team's somewhat faster pace, you have to wonder whether Thibodeau has undergone some sort of positive transformation.

But I found Butler's comment to Okogie even more interesting. Butler was telling Okogie to ignore Thibodeau's yelling and that Thibodeau couldn't help himself. Put that comment together with Butler recent comment that Thibodeau needs to quiet down and let the players play. I don't know exactly what to make of all this. Is it Butler simply being pissed at Thibodeau for not giving him the contract he wanted? Is it Butler realizing that Thibodeau's coaching style is inhibiting the sort of instinctive play Jimmy understands as essential to NBA success? Is it Jimmy trying to bond with his teammates as part of a deep-seated desire to stay here and make this work? Maybe it's just Jimmy talking and it means absolutely nothing.

[Monster]

Some interesting stuff in here about the Rookie including what's Thibs communicated to him in a timeout after Okogie turned down a shot.

https://www.twincities.com/2018/10/23/timberwolves-like-what-theyre-getting-from-rookie-guard-josh-okogie/

Yes, some interesting stuff. Thanks for posting, Monster.

Thibodeau's comment to Okogie reminds me of something interesting that I left out of my game report. When Okogie came off the court for the last time against Indiana, Thibs put his arm around him and talked to him for about 15 seconds. The guy sitting in front of me turned around and said, "that's the first time I've ever seen Thibodeau put his arm around any player during a game." It was the first time for me as well. In fact, I've never seen Thibodeau as much as pat a player on the back during a game. When you think about Thibodeau putting his arm around Okogie during the game, combined with him telling Okogie to shoot, his noticeably quieter demeanor on the sideline, and the team's somewhat faster pace, you have to wonder whether Thibodeau has undergone some sort of positive transformation.

But I found Butler's comment to Okogie even more interesting. Butler was telling Okogie to ignore Thibodeau's yelling and that Thibodeau couldn't help himself. Put that comment together with Butler recent comment that Thibodeau needs to quiet down and let the players play. I don't know exactly what to make of all this. Is it Butler simply being pissed at Thibodeau for not giving him the contract he wanted? Is it Butler realizing that Thibodeau's coaching style is inhibiting the sort of instinctive play Jimmy understands as essential to NBA success? Is it Jimmy trying to bond with his teammates as part of a deep-seated desire to stay here and make this work? Maybe it's just Jimmy talking and it means absolutely nothing.

Good info Lip. I've seen or heard Thibs do some high 5's or pats as guys go by etc but thatinteraction with Okogie is something unexpected.

I'll say this that Jimmy and Taj last year had different ways of kinda running Thibs to the media after games and practices. I know Taj has posted or liked some stuff talking about Thibs and the minutes and stuff. I think both guys also to some extent want to back off minutes and or have other guys get opportunities but especially Taj I think REALLY has fun with a lot of stuff. Jimmy's comments are interesting. I think one thing that's possible that has been lost throughout this whole whacky situation is that it's possible Thibs and Butler even in the awkwardness still have a very good relationship. It possible hat both guys want the best for the other. Jimmy wants out but he wants Thibs and the rest of the team to succeed. Thibs probably believes this is the place for Butler to actually reach his goals and...that's not crazy.

Darrell Morey was on Woj's podcast in the last week and he said some interesting things. He said it's weird that we assume player can improve and get better but we rarely expect coaches to do the same. He said there are examples of guys that didn't succeed at one spot or they started and didn't figure it out right away but then did. Later Woj asked Morey if he had gotten better and Morey laughed and said he feels fortunate looking back at his first few years with the Rockets and said he was glad that he survived that without screwing up and getting fired. He said he was clearly not ready to do that job but he worked hard to improve and a lot of that was building up his staff etc. he said anyone doing a GM type job for the first time will have a ton to learn. Morey also had some interesting comments about himself being pretty obsessive.

So let's get back around to Thibs. We know he has some specific things that are strengths but are also weaknesses. Since he coached in Chicago the league has changed massively. The way the game has changed. How much you practice has changed. To some extent the players have changed. It reminds me of the football coach that used to be able to do drill after drill 2 a days or whatever and now that time is limited. So now the coaching has to change whether you like it or not. So even if you change what you do (lighter on practices which Thibs has actually done here) has he found the way to be successful within that new constraint? I'd say it's a mixed bag.

As for Thibs as a human it seems clear to me he has made some sort of progression. Jimmy and Taj said so last season. This year I've seen Thibs even with this whole crap going on and other times in the offseason looking more comfortable and relaxed. He dropped weight and looks better (wish he would get some new suits that fit better). If there is one benefit of Glen as an owner is he is a relationship guy and really wants more of that happening. Based on what reporting we have heard including what LST has said Glen has had plenty of discussions with Thibs about certain things like his on court demeanor. That could be having a positive effect. I didn't watch Clippers games that closely and what Doc Rivers was like but the coaching job he did last season with the guys available was fantastic. He said it was the most fun he has had coaching in years. You wonder if Doc and Thibs has some chats and Doc shared some of what he thought was helpful and maybe Thibs took it to heart.

Look I'm and optimist I like to find the good in people. Thibs it's an interesting and boring guy in some ways. I want him to succeed if nothing else because the revolving door of people running this franchise is sickening. For any positive feelings I have of Thibs working out here...I would not bet on it. I'd guess he doesn't work but...I have this little shard of optimism that it does and there are SOME positive signs. It will be interesting if Rose keeps playing with hustle and energy and therefor being worthwhile. If Okogie looks like a pretty promising young player and Tolliver is that solid vet we have needed AND shooter etc etc some of the narrative could switch. If you had to pick what fanbase hates their coach more right now the Wolves or the Raiders who would you pick? Lol It will be interesting to see how this team does going forward. Okogie could be a big key of howthibgs turn out.

[Lipoli390]

Some interesting stuff in here about the Rookie including what's Thibs communicated to him in a timeout after Okogie turned down a shot.

https://www.twincities.com/2018/10/23/timberwolves-like-what-theyre-getting-from-rookie-guard-josh-okogie/

Yes, some interesting stuff. Thanks for posting, Monster.

Thibodeau's comment to Okogie reminds me of something interesting that I left out of my game report. When Okogie came off the court for the last time against Indiana, Thibs put his arm around him and talked to him for about 15 seconds. The guy sitting in front of me turned around and said, "that's the first time I've ever seen Thibodeau put his arm around any player during a game." It was the first time for me as well. In fact, I've never seen Thibodeau as much as pat a player on the back during a game. When you think about Thibodeau putting his arm around Okogie during the game, combined with him telling Okogie to shoot, his noticeably quieter demeanor on the sideline, and the team's somewhat faster pace, you have to wonder whether Thibodeau has undergone some sort of positive transformation.

But I found Butler's comment to Okogie even more interesting. Butler was telling Okogie to ignore Thibodeau's yelling and that Thibodeau couldn't help himself. Put that comment together with Butler recent comment that Thibodeau needs to quiet down and let the players play. I don't know exactly what to make of all this. Is it Butler simply being pissed at Thibodeau for not giving him the contract he wanted? Is it Butler realizing that Thibodeau's coaching style is inhibiting the sort of instinctive play Jimmy understands as essential to NBA success? Is it Jimmy trying to bond with his teammates as part of a deep-seated desire to stay here and make this work? Maybe it's just Jimmy talking and it means absolutely nothing.

Good info Lip. I've seen or heard Thibs do some high 5's or pats as guys go by etc but thatinteraction with Okogie is something unexpected.

I'll say this that Jimmy and Taj last year had different ways of kinda running Thibs to the media after games and practices. I know Taj has posted or liked some stuff talking about Thibs and the minutes and stuff. I think both guys also to some extent want to back off minutes and or have other guys get opportunities but especially Taj I think REALLY has fun with a lot of stuff. Jimmy's comments are interesting. I think one thing that's possible that has been lost throughout this whole whacky situation is that it's possible Thibs and Butler even in the awkwardness still have a very good relationship. It possible hat both guys want the best for the other. Jimmy wants out but he wants Thibs and the rest of the team to succeed. Thibs probably believes this is the place for Butler to actually reach his goals and...that's not crazy.

Darrell Morey was on Woj's podcast in the last week and he said some interesting things. He said it's weird that we assume player can improve and get better but we rarely expect coaches to do the same. He said there are examples of guys that didn't succeed at one spot or they started and didn't figure it out right away but then did. Later Woj asked Morey if he had gotten better and Morey laughed and said he feels fortunate looking back at his first few years with the Rockets and said he was glad that he survived that without screwing up and getting fired. He said he was clearly not ready to do that job but he worked hard to improve and a lot of that was building up his staff etc. he said anyone doing a GM type job for the first time will have a ton to learn. Morey also had some interesting comments about himself being pretty obsessive.

So let's get back around to Thibs. We know he has some specific things that are strengths but are also weaknesses. Since he coached in Chicago the league has changed massively. The way the game has changed. How much you practice has changed. To some extent the players have changed. It reminds me of the football coach that used to be able to do drill after drill 2 a days or whatever and now that time is limited. So now the coaching has to change whether you like it or not. So even if you change what you do (lighter on practices which Thibs has actually done here) has he found the way to be successful within that new constraint? I'd say it's a mixed bag.

As for Thibs as a human it seems clear to me he has made some sort of progression. Jimmy and Taj said so last season. This year I've seen Thibs even with this whole crap going on and other times in the offseason looking more comfortable and relaxed. He dropped weight and looks better (wish he would get some new suits that fit better). If there is one benefit of Glen as an owner is he is a relationship guy and really wants more of that happening. Based on what reporting we have heard including what LST has said Glen has had plenty of discussions with Thibs about certain things like his on court demeanor. That could be having a positive effect. I didn't watch Clippers games that closely and what Doc Rivers was like but the coaching job he did last season with the guys available was fantastic. He said it was the most fun he has had coaching in years. You wonder if Doc and Thibs has some chats and Doc shared some of what he thought was helpful and maybe Thibs took it to heart.

Look I'm and optimist I like to find the good in people. Thibs it's an interesting and boring guy in some ways. I want him to succeed if nothing else because the revolving door of people running this franchise is sickening. For any positive feelings I have of Thibs working out here...I would not bet on it. I'd guess he doesn't work but...I have this little shard of optimism that it does and there are SOME positive signs. It will be interesting if Rose keeps playing with hustle and energy and therefor being worthwhile. If Okogie looks like a pretty promising young player and Tolliver is that solid vet we have needed AND shooter etc etc some of the narrative could switch. If you had to pick what fanbase hates their coach more right now the Wolves or the Raiders who would you pick? Lol It will be interesting to see how this team does going forward. Okogie could be a big key of howthibgs turn out.

Good post, Monster. I read it a couple times and found myself agreeing with everything you wrote. But it's late so I'm probably just not thinking straight. :)

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Reading that blurb from monster -- specifically the part about Daryl Morey joking about not getting fired -- had me laughing because one could argue that had David Stern and the NBA not stepped in and vetoed that "Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers" trade, Morey likely gets fired a season or two after for expending all main resources on an aging star without ever becoming a legitimate contender. He would have acquired Pau Gasol for Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, Goran Dragic, and a first-round pick. Keep in mind that these are important assets that were used to facilitate the James Harden trade just under a year later. No Harden trade and Morey's run in Houston is pretty much a failure any way you spin it.

It's ironic, but often times the best deals an executive makes are the ones that he doesn't [make].

To tie this all back to the Minnesota franchise: The best deal [that we know of] for Jimmy Butler that's been on the table is the one we've taken so far -- none of them.

[Lipoli390]

Reading that blurb from monster -- specifically the part about Daryl Morey joking about not getting fired -- had me laughing because one could argue that had David Stern and the NBA not stepped in and vetoed that "Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers" trade, Morey likely gets fired a season or two after for expending all main resources on an aging star without ever becoming a legitimate contender. He would have acquired Pau Gasol for Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, Goran Dragic, and a first-round pick. Keep in mind that these are important assets that were used to facilitate the James Harden trade just under a year later. No Harden trade and Morey's run in Houston is pretty much a failure any way you spin it.

It's ironic, but often times the best deals an executive makes are the ones that he doesn't [make].

To tie this all back to the Minnesota franchise: The best deal [that we know of] for Jimmy Butler that's been on the table is the one we've taken so far -- none of them.

Good point about the good fortune in bad deals that don't happen. How about Thibodeau getting bailed out by Bazz's agent who turned down the huge contract offer? If only Gorgui's agent had done the same. :)

I think the jury is still out on whether the best deal for Jimmy thus far is none of the above. If the best deal was Richardson, the 2019 pick and Olynyk, then I'd definitely disagree with you. If the best deal was Waiters rather than Olynyk, then I'm not sure. We'll have to see how this plays out before we'll know whether Miami's decision to balk at Thibodeau's request for an additional draft pick was a great miss or a missed opportunity.

[Monster]

Reading that blurb from monster -- specifically the part about Daryl Morey joking about not getting fired -- had me laughing because one could argue that had David Stern and the NBA not stepped in and vetoed that "Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers" trade, Morey likely gets fired a season or two after for expending all main resources on an aging star without ever becoming a legitimate contender. He would have acquired Pau Gasol for Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, Goran Dragic, and a first-round pick. Keep in mind that these are important assets that were used to facilitate the James Harden trade just under a year later. No Harden trade and Morey's run in Houston is pretty much a failure any way you spin it.

It's ironic, but often times the best deals an executive makes are the ones that he doesn't [make].

To tie this all back to the Minnesota franchise: The best deal [that we know of] for Jimmy Butler that's been on the table is the one we've taken so far -- none of them.

Good point about the good fortune in bad deals that don't happen. How about Thibodeau getting bailed out by Bazz's agent who turned down the huge contract offer? If only Gorgui's agent had done the same. :)

I think the jury is still out on whether the best deal for Jimmy thus far is none of the above. If the best deal was Richardson, the 2019 pick and Olynyk, then I'd definitely disagree with you. If the best deal was Waiters rather than Olynyk, then I'm not sure. We'll have to see how this plays out before we'll know whether Miami's decision to balk at Thibodeau's request for an additional draft pick was a great miss or a missed opportunity.

There have been some pretty smart organizations that either made Bazz like errors or were bailed out by players that didn't take the money.

Toronto Powell who was terrible last year and is making 10 million a year.

Miami Waiters for sure.

Dallas offered a pretty nice contract to Noel who turned it down and is now a backup.

Utah even though they had to use another draft pick to acquire Rubio were bailed out by George Hill not taking 20 million a year for 4 years or whatever it was.

The list of the contracts given out and turned down the last couple years goes on. The Bazz offered deal the Dieng contract don't look good for Thibs and Layden but they were not alone. Some people forget the other contracts they handed or that were less damaging even if they didn't get much put of the guys.

When someone talks about the best deals that were never made that always makes me think of the fact that Kahn never moves Love and it did seem like it was a real possibility that he would. If Wiggins never takes another step forward I guess many dealing Love would t have been a complete disaster but can you imagine Love blowing up somewhere while we ended up with some crappy players because of draft picks in return. Love has his flaws but he also brought some legit joy of watching him during the time he was here.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Good posts here. Lip thanks for the eyewitness details from the games here and in the game report. That's the kind of stuff we don't see online so it's really helpful.

Coming back to Okogie--I freakin' love that guy! He works SO HARD every second he is on the court, especially defensively. It reminds me of my favorite wolf of all time, Corey Brewer.

I'm not sure how much faith I have that his shot will come along, but his intensity on the court especially when it comes to defense and hustle plays is the sort of thing that can be infectious. I can see Okogie helping make other guys better just by setting an example and inspiring intensity among his teammates.

Butler also has that kind of defensive intensity, but obviously his personality is also clashing with his teammates right now. I doubt Okogie will ever make the kind of tangible impact that Butler has in terms of scoring, etc., but I am really glad we have Okogie on the team.

Also, notice how replacing Wiggins with Okogie in the lineup didn't really hurt us in that last game? It's only one game, but I still think back to the days of Trenton Hassell playing a key role for us as a defensive stopper who doesn't need a lot of shots. Maybe Okogie could be that guy someday.

[thedoper]

Basketball GMs have it rough. It's always a mix of deals and scouting talent, many GMs are stronger in one area than another. Few are excellent in both. Jerry West and Ainge stick out in my mind in this area of GM's that evaluate talent at a top notch level and make good deals.

Back to Okogie I think Thibs and his team did a good job with that pick. I am also confident in Thibs' ability to evaluate talent. I'm not so sure he or Layden have the deal making down.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Good posts here. Lip thanks for the eyewitness details from the games here and in the game report. That's the kind of stuff we don't see online so it's really helpful.

Coming back to Okogie--I freakin' love that guy! He works SO HARD every second he is on the court, especially defensively. It reminds me of my favorite wolf of all time, Corey Brewer.

I'm not sure how much faith I have that his shot will come along, but his intensity on the court especially when it comes to defense and hustle plays is the sort of thing that can be infectious. I can see Okogie helping make other guys better just by setting an example and inspiring intensity among his teammates.

Butler also has that kind of defensive intensity, but obviously his personality is also clashing with his teammates right now. I doubt Okogie will ever make the kind of tangible impact that Butler has in terms of scoring, etc., but I am really glad we have Okogie on the team.

Also, notice how replacing Wiggins with Okogie in the lineup didn't really hurt us in that last game? It's only one game, but I still think back to the days of Trenton Hassell playing a key role for us as a defensive stopper who doesn't need a lot of shots. Maybe Okogie could be that guy someday.

Okogie shot the 3 at a 38% clip in college and makes a high percentage of his free throws. For most NBA franchises, a prospect like that would eventually hit the NBA 3 with regularity. Not sure about us though, but it's something we can hang onto for now....