Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 7:57 am
I know some of you are chomping at the bit to get rid of KAT, but it should come as no surprise that the Heat and Nuggets were the two most accurate 3-point shooting teams in the Playoffs this year. While they aren't high volume 3-pt teams, they made the open ones at a high rate.
If we move on from KAT, that is one less really accurate 3-point shooter on our roster. It is ***MANDATORY*** that the team has shooting around Ant if we ever want this team to make a deep playoff run.
Yes, mandatory. And that is exactly why I am against any deal built around getting Henderson for KAT. We likely end up with a much worse 3-point shooter at the 4, and add a PG of the future who is a poor 3-point shooter (and an erratic defender and distributor). Not a prescription for success.
I'm looking forward to this series...two very likable teams. And as Carlos suggested in another thread, Denver's success in the psot-season is some support for keeping our core together as long as we can. Rudy's success against the marvelous Jokic was obvious to the eye, but the stats support the eye test. Jokic shot 63.2% from the field this past season, but the Wolves held him to less than 50% during their 5-game playoff...that's significant. And I suspect that Adebayo just isn't big enough to have much success against Jokic. Effectively defending Jokic is the key to challenging Denver in the West, and I think that's why TC acquired Rudy...and why he's likely not to move him. I'll be watching the Bam/Nikola matchup closely, and comparing it to what I observed in our series.
The only caveat I'd add with the KAT trade is if an established 3-point shooter (like Simons in some trade proposals) is included in the deal coming back, then it becomes less of an issue although the nice thing about KAT is he can drag bigs out of the paint when he's playing Center. A guy like Simons won't do that.
Back to the Finals.....Bam isn't as tall or long as Rudy (almost no one is), but he is powerful and athletic with a strong base, so I think he can battle Jokic and make him work for his points.
Plus my theory all along has been to make Jokic a scorer by guarding him one on one and try to contain everyone else. He'll go off for some big scoring numbers, but I think if you make him expend energy on offense, it helps your chances when you go at him on the other end.
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 7:57 am
I know some of you are chomping at the bit to get rid of KAT, but it should come as no surprise that the Heat and Nuggets were the two most accurate 3-point shooting teams in the Playoffs this year. While they aren't high volume 3-pt teams, they made the open ones at a high rate.
If we move on from KAT, that is one less really accurate 3-point shooter on our roster. It is ***MANDATORY*** that the team has shooting around Ant if we ever want this team to make a deep playoff run.
Yes, mandatory. And that is exactly why I am against any deal built around getting Henderson for KAT. We likely end up with a much worse 3-point shooter at the 4, and add a PG of the future who is a poor 3-point shooter (and an erratic defender and distributor). Not a prescription for success.
I'm looking forward to this series...two very likable teams. And as Carlos suggested in another thread, Denver's success in the psot-season is some support for keeping our core together as long as we can. Rudy's success against the marvelous Jokic was obvious to the eye, but the stats support the eye test. Jokic shot 63.2% from the field this past season, but the Wolves held him to less than 50% during their 5-game playoff...that's significant. And I suspect that Adebayo just isn't big enough to have much success against Jokic. Effectively defending Jokic is the key to challenging Denver in the West, and I think that's why TC acquired Rudy...and why he's likely not to move him. I'll be watching the Bam/Nikola matchup closely, and comparing it to what I observed in our series.
The only caveat I'd add with the KAT trade is if an established 3-point shooter (like Simons in some trade proposals) is included in the deal coming back, then it becomes less of an issue although the nice thing about KAT is he can drag bigs out of the paint when he's playing Center. A guy like Simons won't do that.
Back to the Finals.....Bam isn't as tall or long as Rudy (almost no one is), but he is powerful and athletic with a strong base, so I think he can battle Jokic and make him work for his points.
Plus my theory all along has been to make Jokic a scorer by guarding him one on one and try to contain everyone else. He'll go off for some big scoring numbers, but I think if you make him expend energy on offense, it helps your chances when you go at him on the other end.
Totally agree that you should not double Jokic...he'll find the open man every time, and those guys can shoot. But while I agree that Bam will make Jokic work, Jokic seems to struggle mostly when faced with length. And Bam only has a 7-1 wingspan compared to Rudy's 7-9...that's a big difference!
I'm also assuming Gordon will be given the task of guarding Butler, and I'm looking forward to that. He held Durant to 45% in their series (compared to his 57% for the season) and only 22% on threes, and KAT to 46% and only 25% on threes. I think we have to recognize how great a defender Gordon is before ripping KAT's playoff performance. It's going to be really fun to see how he handles Jimmy.
Yes, mandatory. And that is exactly why I am against any deal built around getting Henderson for KAT. We likely end up with a much worse 3-point shooter at the 4, and add a PG of the future who is a poor 3-point shooter (and an erratic defender and distributor). Not a prescription for success.
I'm looking forward to this series...two very likable teams. And as Carlos suggested in another thread, Denver's success in the psot-season is some support for keeping our core together as long as we can. Rudy's success against the marvelous Jokic was obvious to the eye, but the stats support the eye test. Jokic shot 63.2% from the field this past season, but the Wolves held him to less than 50% during their 5-game playoff...that's significant. And I suspect that Adebayo just isn't big enough to have much success against Jokic. Effectively defending Jokic is the key to challenging Denver in the West, and I think that's why TC acquired Rudy...and why he's likely not to move him. I'll be watching the Bam/Nikola matchup closely, and comparing it to what I observed in our series.
The only caveat I'd add with the KAT trade is if an established 3-point shooter (like Simons in some trade proposals) is included in the deal coming back, then it becomes less of an issue although the nice thing about KAT is he can drag bigs out of the paint when he's playing Center. A guy like Simons won't do that.
Back to the Finals.....Bam isn't as tall or long as Rudy (almost no one is), but he is powerful and athletic with a strong base, so I think he can battle Jokic and make him work for his points.
Plus my theory all along has been to make Jokic a scorer by guarding him one on one and try to contain everyone else. He'll go off for some big scoring numbers, but I think if you make him expend energy on offense, it helps your chances when you go at him on the other end.
Totally agree that you should not double Jokic...he'll find the open man every time, and those guys can shoot. But while I agree that Bam will make Jokic work, Jokic seems to struggle mostly when faced with length. And Bam only has a 7-1 wingspan compared to Rudy's 7-9...that's a big difference!
I'm also assuming Gordon will be given the task of guarding Butler, and I'm looking forward to that. He held Durant to 45% in their series (compared to his 57% for the season) and only 22% on threes, and KAT to 46% and only 25% on threes. I think we have to recognize how great a defender Gordon is before ripping KAT's playoff performance. It's going to be really fun to see how he handles Jimmy.
Absolutely right about Gordon’s defensive prowess. I recall that Rosas wanted to acquire him. Again, that’s a credit to Rosas. After the Culver mistake, his moves and instincts were really good. I think he overpaid for DLO, but I it wasn’t a gross overpayment and it was a reasonable calculated risk. I didn’t like re-signing Juancho, but he did a nice job of moving Juancho for value.
The only caveat I'd add with the KAT trade is if an established 3-point shooter (like Simons in some trade proposals) is included in the deal coming back, then it becomes less of an issue although the nice thing about KAT is he can drag bigs out of the paint when he's playing Center. A guy like Simons won't do that.
Back to the Finals.....Bam isn't as tall or long as Rudy (almost no one is), but he is powerful and athletic with a strong base, so I think he can battle Jokic and make him work for his points.
Plus my theory all along has been to make Jokic a scorer by guarding him one on one and try to contain everyone else. He'll go off for some big scoring numbers, but I think if you make him expend energy on offense, it helps your chances when you go at him on the other end.
Totally agree that you should not double Jokic...he'll find the open man every time, and those guys can shoot. But while I agree that Bam will make Jokic work, Jokic seems to struggle mostly when faced with length. And Bam only has a 7-1 wingspan compared to Rudy's 7-9...that's a big difference!
I'm also assuming Gordon will be given the task of guarding Butler, and I'm looking forward to that. He held Durant to 45% in their series (compared to his 57% for the season) and only 22% on threes, and KAT to 46% and only 25% on threes. I think we have to recognize how great a defender Gordon is before ripping KAT's playoff performance. It's going to be really fun to see how he handles Jimmy.
Absolutely right about Gordon’s defensive prowess. I recall that Rosas wanted to acquire him. Again, that’s a credit to Rosas. After the Culver mistake, his moves and instincts were really good. I think he overpaid for DLO, but I it wasn’t a gross overpayment and it was a reasonable calculated risk. I didn’t like re-signing Juancho, but he did a nice job of moving Juancho for value.
I have to admit I didn't know how good a defender Gordon was until these playoffs. I neglected to mention that he also had to defend James in the Laker series, and while he was more successful than KAT and Durant, he wasn't the LeBron we're used to seeing. And his stats when guarding KAT and Durant were actually even better than I thought. They were 4-22 on threes with Gordon on them, and had only 15 assists and 21 turnovers. And I do recall Rosas's interest in Gordon, Lip, and I recall I may have been one of the naysayers...shame on me. He's a unique defender able to guard both inside and outside. He missed the second game against Miami, but held Jimmy to 5 for 13 shooting (with no threes) in the first meeting. I have to believe the Jokic/Bam and Gordon/Butler matchups strongly favor Denver. And then you have to account for Murray too.
Totally agree that you should not double Jokic...he'll find the open man every time, and those guys can shoot. But while I agree that Bam will make Jokic work, Jokic seems to struggle mostly when faced with length. And Bam only has a 7-1 wingspan compared to Rudy's 7-9...that's a big difference!
I'm also assuming Gordon will be given the task of guarding Butler, and I'm looking forward to that. He held Durant to 45% in their series (compared to his 57% for the season) and only 22% on threes, and KAT to 46% and only 25% on threes. I think we have to recognize how great a defender Gordon is before ripping KAT's playoff performance. It's going to be really fun to see how he handles Jimmy.
Absolutely right about Gordon’s defensive prowess. I recall that Rosas wanted to acquire him. Again, that’s a credit to Rosas. After the Culver mistake, his moves and instincts were really good. I think he overpaid for DLO, but I it wasn’t a gross overpayment and it was a reasonable calculated risk. I didn’t like re-signing Juancho, but he did a nice job of moving Juancho for value.
I have to admit I didn't know how good a defender Gordon was until these playoffs. I neglected to mention that he also had to defend James in the Laker series, and while he was more successful than KAT and Durant, he wasn't the LeBron we're used to seeing. And his stats when guarding KAT and Durant were actually even better than I thought. They were 4-22 on threes with Gordon on them, and had only 15 assists and 21 turnovers. And I do recall Rosas's interest in Gordon, Lip, and I recall I may have been one of the naysayers...shame on me. He's a unique defender able to guard both inside and outside. He missed the second game against Miami, but held Jimmy to 5 for 13 shooting (with no threes) in the first meeting. I have to believe the Jokic/Bam and Gordon/Butler matchups strongly favor Denver. And then you have to account for Murray too.
He's unique, yes, but not one of a kind. There is a pattern here....A lot of these Finals teams in recent memory have brawny hybrid forwards that can play the 3, 4, or even 5 while being mobile enough to also switch onto guards.
Aaron Gordon - Denver
Grant Williams - Boston
PJ Tucker - Milwaukee (he was on Houston and Philly teams that went pretty deep too)
Draymond Green - Golden State
Jae Crowder - Phoenix
The Wolves really don't have a player like any of these guys. We certainly have plenty of length, but strength, brawn, and physicality is seriously lacking along our front line.
Absolutely right about Gordon’s defensive prowess. I recall that Rosas wanted to acquire him. Again, that’s a credit to Rosas. After the Culver mistake, his moves and instincts were really good. I think he overpaid for DLO, but I it wasn’t a gross overpayment and it was a reasonable calculated risk. I didn’t like re-signing Juancho, but he did a nice job of moving Juancho for value.
I have to admit I didn't know how good a defender Gordon was until these playoffs. I neglected to mention that he also had to defend James in the Laker series, and while he was more successful than KAT and Durant, he wasn't the LeBron we're used to seeing. And his stats when guarding KAT and Durant were actually even better than I thought. They were 4-22 on threes with Gordon on them, and had only 15 assists and 21 turnovers. And I do recall Rosas's interest in Gordon, Lip, and I recall I may have been one of the naysayers...shame on me. He's a unique defender able to guard both inside and outside. He missed the second game against Miami, but held Jimmy to 5 for 13 shooting (with no threes) in the first meeting. I have to believe the Jokic/Bam and Gordon/Butler matchups strongly favor Denver. And then you have to account for Murray too.
He's unique, yes, but not one of a kind. There is a pattern here....A lot of these Finals teams in recent memory have brawny hybrid forwards that can play the 3, 4, or even 5 while being mobile enough to also switch onto guards.
Aaron Gordon - Denver
Grant Williams - Boston
PJ Tucker - Milwaukee (he was on Houston and Philly teams that went pretty deep too)
Draymond Green - Golden State
Jae Crowder - Phoenix
The Wolves really don't have a player like any of these guys. We certainly have plenty of length, but strength, brawn, and physicality is seriously lacking along our front line.
Good point, Q. It's one of the reasons I might be interested in swapping KAT for Brandon Miller and pieces. I've listened to a lot of interviews with Miller, and I'm not really concerned about his involvement with the gun incident. And I love how he stresses defense, and how comfortable he is with guarding at least 1-3. He's not brawny at all...yet...but he was an excellent rebounder in college and was able to defend bigger players inside. And scouts think he can put weight on his frame without losing the ability to defend the perimeter. And even though he crapped the bed in the championship game, he can shoot the three. A wing combo of Miller/Jaden/Ant could be elite defending the perimeter, especially with Gobert backing them up.
I have to admit I didn't know how good a defender Gordon was until these playoffs. I neglected to mention that he also had to defend James in the Laker series, and while he was more successful than KAT and Durant, he wasn't the LeBron we're used to seeing. And his stats when guarding KAT and Durant were actually even better than I thought. They were 4-22 on threes with Gordon on them, and had only 15 assists and 21 turnovers. And I do recall Rosas's interest in Gordon, Lip, and I recall I may have been one of the naysayers...shame on me. He's a unique defender able to guard both inside and outside. He missed the second game against Miami, but held Jimmy to 5 for 13 shooting (with no threes) in the first meeting. I have to believe the Jokic/Bam and Gordon/Butler matchups strongly favor Denver. And then you have to account for Murray too.
He's unique, yes, but not one of a kind. There is a pattern here....A lot of these Finals teams in recent memory have brawny hybrid forwards that can play the 3, 4, or even 5 while being mobile enough to also switch onto guards.
Aaron Gordon - Denver
Grant Williams - Boston
PJ Tucker - Milwaukee (he was on Houston and Philly teams that went pretty deep too)
Draymond Green - Golden State
Jae Crowder - Phoenix
The Wolves really don't have a player like any of these guys. We certainly have plenty of length, but strength, brawn, and physicality is seriously lacking along our front line.
Good point, Q. It's one of the reasons I might be interested in swapping KAT for Brandon Miller and pieces. I've listened to a lot of interviews with Miller, and I'm not really concerned about his involvement with the gun incident. And I love how he stresses defense, and how comfortable he is with guarding at least 1-3. He's not brawny at all...yet...but he was an excellent rebounder in college and was able to defend bigger players inside. And scouts think he can put weight on his frame without losing the ability to defend the perimeter. And even though he crapped the bed in the championship game, he can shoot the three. A wing combo of Miller/Jaden/Ant could be elite defending the perimeter, especially with Gobert backing them up.
Mmmm, we may already have a much cheaper version of Miller in Josh Minott. Granted, Miller has a much more impressive body of work in college as a shooter and scorer, but I think Minott showed a lot of potential and upside in his G-League stint as well as the limited amount of playing time he got with the big league team. And Minott is also a good rebounder.
If Mcdaniels doesn’t punch a wall are the wolves NBA champs? In kidding but wolves might have been a lot better than we think and just ran into a buzz saw round 1
kekgeek wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:00 pm
If Mcdaniels doesn’t punch a wall are the wolves NBA champs? In kidding but wolves might have been a lot better than we think and just ran into a buzz saw round 1
You know I'm with you on this one, Kek! Every night that Denver puts up another routine double digit win against the cream of the NBA crop provides more positive evidence that TC has put together a roster that can compete for a championship (especially when you add in our 6-3 record against tough competition in the only 9 games this roster was together). NAW put in a great effort against Murray, but I think we all know our defense would have been better if the wall-puncher had been available.
As many of us expected, Aaron Gordon did to the great Jimmy Butler what he did to KAT and Durant...held him to a mere 13 points. He just won't let his man touch the ball, and the paucity of 3-pointers by his man illustrates his terrific perimeter defense. I wish I had jumped on the Vegas prop that Haywood Highsmith would outscore Butler!
kekgeek wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:00 pm
If Mcdaniels doesn’t punch a wall are the wolves NBA champs? In kidding but wolves might have been a lot better than we think and just ran into a buzz saw round 1
You know I'm with you on this one, Kek! Every night that Denver puts up another routine double digit win against the cream of the NBA crop provides more positive evidence that TC has put together a roster that can compete for a championship (especially when you add in our 6-3 record against tough competition in the only 9 games this roster was together). NAW put in a great effort against Murray, but I think we all know our defense would have been better if the wall-puncher had been available.
As many of us expected, Aaron Gordon did to the great Jimmy Butler what he did to KAT and Durant...held him to a mere 13 points. He just won't let his man touch the ball, and the paucity of 3-pointers by his man illustrates his terrific perimeter defense. I wish I had jumped on the Vegas prop that Haywood Highsmith would outscore Butler!
I think Butler might be running out of steam. His shot seemed really flat and he was passive at times.
But yeah, Denver looked like a freakin' machine out there and it does sort of make you appreciate the fact we defended them about as well as anyone could.
Still, I take no moral victory from Denver's subsequent success. We effed ourselves by even being in the position to play Denver in the first round. Had we won some of those games against weaker competition late in the season or beat L.A. in the play-in game, we may have had a chance to win a playoff series.
