What do we need?

[DNatagal]

I would love to see a more structured offense, no matter which players are here. Finch lets the players flow and move on their own, but more often than not, players stand and watch. When there are creative players on the court like Clark, TJ, DDV, and Ayo, there tends to be more movement and even...a backscreen with backcuts for layups!

I doubt that Beringer is ready for prime time, but he needs to be on the floor every game. If Randle is moved and Naz is the new starting PF, Beringer needs to be first big off the bench to inject energy and want to. It may be ugly at times, but he will be getting prime experience and TC can find out if he belongs or not.

[Phenom]

As far as the frontcourt goes, I think people are over looking the impact Rocco could have. A big with legit length that can shoot the 3. He's a year or two from playing a lot of minutes, but he could make contributions in short stints, maybe as early as next year.

If Randle is moved, I can see Finch having to incorporate both Joan and Rocco into the rotation. I don't know where else SloMo would go, so he could be back to provide depth, along with whoever else TC picks up for depth.

Height-wise he is closer to Wemby than most. If he can stretch the floor reliably, that is a great start.

[TheFuture]

Going back to Aussie's request from the other thread (the one that has devolved into yet another Ant debate, LOL) for some more "obscure" names to target in free agency or via trade:

1. Andrew Wiggins - This is KiwiMatt's idea and not a bad one. I believe it's Randle for Wiggins pretty much straight up. Wiggins has quietly developed into a very solid 3&D wing after failing as a #1/#2 type option earlier in his career. He could offload some of Jaden's POA defensive responsibilities and allow us to play a switchy, more positionless defense.

2. Collin Gillespie - He's an unrestricted free agent and definitely fits the "connective tissue" type player Finch alluded to in his exit interview. He sort of fits that Tyus Jones/(older) Mike Conley mode of game manager PG, except he's a little bigger than both of them (6'1.5" and 195 lbs. in the combine a few years ago). Could possibly be had for the MLE and either be a token starter that gets subbed in by Ayo early or comes off the bench to sub for Ayo. Either way, a very solid 25-28 MPG player that enables positive things to happen while on the floor but just can't handle a lot of usage.

3. Zach Collins - Another unrestricted free agent whose injuries have basically made him a part-time player. Still, I like his toughness and size. Could be a good vet to share the C role with Beringer if we trade Rudy. Also, he's been gradually developing a 3-point stroke that could continue to improve. I also think he'd come quite cheap.

Phenom mentioned Myles Turner, who is hardly obscure, but an obvious fit if you are talking about trying to create a 5-out offense. In fact, don't be surprised if all the Giannis smoke ends up actually delivering Myles Turner to us and routing Giannis somewhere else with Rudy on the go as well!

Good stuff!

I am with you on Wiggins, seems really obvious actually.

Honestly I just assumed Phoenix wasn't gonna let Gillespie walk, but he would be great as well.

I don't really get it with Turner the player but theoretically it's a good fit.

I saw something tonight for someone talking about the Spurs and Thunder being so well built around their star players and this should be the only goal for the Wolves.

I completely agree, but I'm not enough of an Xs and Os guy to know what that really looks like. I can pretend I do, but in reality I'd be bullshiting. So I'm curious what other would suggest for that

I know the 5 out offense has been brought up a lot, but what does that entail as far as player acquisitions and current players? Are we sure that's the ideal fit? I'm not personally.

I'd honestly love to see what people could come up with if you had the freedom to build an ideal roster that's at least reasonably realistic, meaning within cap limitations or close enough.

I'll give a half ass effort

PG- I'll start off cheating and pick prime Mike Conley because I simply cannot think of a better point guard for Ant and the team in general

SF - Assur Thompson
PF- Jaden McDaniels
C - Kristaps Porzingas

I didn't think too hard about it but that's what I got

PG - Josh Giddey
SG - Ant
SF - Jaden
PF - Jabari Smith Jr.
C - Donovan Clingan

[AussieWolf3]

Basically take Boston's roster from a couple seasons ago and insert Ant into it in place of Jaylen Brown. That's the ideal roster for him.

I was hoping for a 2nd opinion since that's been mentioned quite a bit

Ha, understood. I think he would do well in OKC's offense too, which is also almost exclusively 5-out with the exception of when iHart is in the game, but even he is a threat to score on the short roll with that push shot of his. JWill (the backup Center) and Chet both can space the floor and often pop out to the perimeter after screens.

I'm not sure what kind of offense is better for Ant given the fact he isn't a great off-ball mover/cutter or pick and roll maestro, but excels as a shooter and isolation scorer at all three levels. He needs lots and lots of space.

It's funny how people talk about how much Ant needs to develop a two-man game with someone, yet neither OKC or the Spurs have some brilliant two-man synergistic offensive pairing. Everyone points to Jokic and Murray or Draymond and Steph, but those pairings are very much the exception, not the rule.

I was thinking about OKC as well, which is one of the reasons I'd like Hart's fit here --- not that he'd bring that offense with him, but I like what he does.

It's interesting what you've said about the whole two man thing, you've got a good point. I sense that all most of us what is something that's at least in between a take turn offense and a good two man game.
It's honestly why Randle made sense in theory, better play maker than Kat than can break the paint and spray it out to And when defense is in rotation. For what it's worth that offense did work this year ... When Rudy was off the floor. With the starters, minus Rudy, plus Naz they had a +20 ORTG! surprisingly that lineup only played 73 non garbage time minutes together tho.

Its honestly what makes me wonder if a playmaking big that can defend at respectable level isn't an optimal lineup. It would require Ant trusting that big enough for him to stay off ball and it would probably still ask him to be too much of a distributor anyway.

I guess I'm trying to figure out what there is that's less obvious that "KYRIE". Who is really hard for to trust at 34 and coming off my an acl tear.

I also want to see this team be more judicious than just going after costly, big name talent. I'm just having a hard time coming up with those names, which is why I'm not paid the big bucks I guess

[AussieWolf3]

Going back to Aussie's request from the other thread (the one that has devolved into yet another Ant debate, LOL) for some more "obscure" names to target in free agency or via trade:

1. Andrew Wiggins - This is KiwiMatt's idea and not a bad one. I believe it's Randle for Wiggins pretty much straight up. Wiggins has quietly developed into a very solid 3&D wing after failing as a #1/#2 type option earlier in his career. He could offload some of Jaden's POA defensive responsibilities and allow us to play a switchy, more positionless defense.

2. Collin Gillespie - He's an unrestricted free agent and definitely fits the "connective tissue" type player Finch alluded to in his exit interview. He sort of fits that Tyus Jones/(older) Mike Conley mode of game manager PG, except he's a little bigger than both of them (6'1.5" and 195 lbs. in the combine a few years ago). Could possibly be had for the MLE and either be a token starter that gets subbed in by Ayo early or comes off the bench to sub for Ayo. Either way, a very solid 25-28 MPG player that enables positive things to happen while on the floor but just can't handle a lot of usage.

3. Zach Collins - Another unrestricted free agent whose injuries have basically made him a part-time player. Still, I like his toughness and size. Could be a good vet to share the C role with Beringer if we trade Rudy. Also, he's been gradually developing a 3-point stroke that could continue to improve. I also think he'd come quite cheap.

Phenom mentioned Myles Turner, who is hardly obscure, but an obvious fit if you are talking about trying to create a 5-out offense. In fact, don't be surprised if all the Giannis smoke ends up actually delivering Myles Turner to us and routing Giannis somewhere else with Rudy on the go as well!

Good stuff!

I am with you on Wiggins, seems really obvious actually.

Honestly I just assumed Phoenix wasn't gonna let Gillespie walk, but he would be great as well.

I don't really get it with Turner the player but theoretically it's a good fit.

I saw something tonight for someone talking about the Spurs and Thunder being so well built around their star players and this should be the only goal for the Wolves.

I completely agree, but I'm not enough of an Xs and Os guy to know what that really looks like. I can pretend I do, but in reality I'd be bullshiting. So I'm curious what other would suggest for that

I know the 5 out offense has been brought up a lot, but what does that entail as far as player acquisitions and current players? Are we sure that's the ideal fit? I'm not personally.

I'd honestly love to see what people could come up with if you had the freedom to build an ideal roster that's at least reasonably realistic, meaning within cap limitations or close enough.

I'll give a half ass effort

PG- I'll start off cheating and pick prime Mike Conley because I simply cannot think of a better point guard for Ant and the team in general

SF - Assur Thompson
PF- Jaden McDaniels
C - Kristaps Porzingas

I didn't think too hard about it but that's what I got

PG - Josh Giddey
SG - Ant
SF - Jaden
PF - Jabari Smith Jr.
C - Donovan Clingan

Giddy plus Clingan would be a problem spacing wise. I don't know a lot about Smith game to be honest but his numbers don't say "great shooter" either

[AussieWolf3]

One of the more interesting things about Edwards season this year was how he handled drives to the rim, it was completely different this year.

25-26' was his lowest drives per game in his career at just 11. What's crazy tho? He averaged 10 points a game on drives. Nearly a point per drive is insane!

Here's the contrast from the last two seasons

23-24': 14.6 drives/ 10.7 pts
24'-25': 13.2 drives/ 8.5 pts

Much more efficient scoring when driving to the basket, but where it gets interesting is his passing and assist rate

24': pass%- 30.9, ast%- 8.5
25': pass%- 33.1, ast%- 8.1
26': pass%- 23.4, ast%- 5.3

Was less passing and naturally less assist. The drop in assist from 24 to 26 is more than half an assist per game. It tracks with my eye test too because I can't even remember a drive and kick pass from him. Not that it didn't happen, it just didn't stick out. It would be incredibly interesting to understand the reason or cause for this. How conscious of a decision was it? Can we get back to that drive and kick style he was pretty good at in the 24' season?

It's funny that two of the best drive and kickers are Shai and Luka, neither of which are straight line speed drivers to the basket. Deni is one the others who great at it but it much more of straight line drivers.

Just an interesting thing I followed through the year

[TheFuture]

Good stuff!

I am with you on Wiggins, seems really obvious actually.

Honestly I just assumed Phoenix wasn't gonna let Gillespie walk, but he would be great as well.

I don't really get it with Turner the player but theoretically it's a good fit.

I saw something tonight for someone talking about the Spurs and Thunder being so well built around their star players and this should be the only goal for the Wolves.

I completely agree, but I'm not enough of an Xs and Os guy to know what that really looks like. I can pretend I do, but in reality I'd be bullshiting. So I'm curious what other would suggest for that

I know the 5 out offense has been brought up a lot, but what does that entail as far as player acquisitions and current players? Are we sure that's the ideal fit? I'm not personally.

I'd honestly love to see what people could come up with if you had the freedom to build an ideal roster that's at least reasonably realistic, meaning within cap limitations or close enough.

I'll give a half ass effort

PG- I'll start off cheating and pick prime Mike Conley because I simply cannot think of a better point guard for Ant and the team in general

SF - Assur Thompson
PF- Jaden McDaniels
C - Kristaps Porzingas

I didn't think too hard about it but that's what I got

PG - Josh Giddey
SG - Ant
SF - Jaden
PF - Jabari Smith Jr.
C - Donovan Clingan

Giddy plus Clingan would be a problem spacing wise. I don't know a lot about Smith game to be honest but his numbers don't say "great shooter" either

Neither Giddey or Clingan are terrible shooters. Smith is actually rather good.

[Wolvesfan21]

One of the more interesting things about Edwards season this year was how he handled drives to the rim, it was completely different this year.

25-26' was his lowest drives per game in his career at just 11. What's crazy tho? He averaged 10 points a game on drives. Nearly a point per drive is insane!

Here's the contrast from the last two seasons

23-24': 14.6 drives/ 10.7 pts
24'-25': 13.2 drives/ 8.5 pts

Much more efficient scoring when driving to the basket, but where it gets interesting is his passing and assist rate

24': pass%- 30.9, ast%- 8.5
25': pass%- 33.1, ast%- 8.1
26': pass%- 23.4, ast%- 5.3

Was less passing and naturally less assist. The drop in assist from 24 to 26 is more than half an assist per game. It tracks with my eye test too because I can't even remember a drive and kick pass from him. Not that it didn't happen, it just didn't stick out. It would be incredibly interesting to understand the reason or cause for this. How conscious of a decision was it? Can we get back to that drive and kick style he was pretty good at in the 24' season?

It's funny that two of the best drive and kickers are Shai and Luka, neither of which are straight line speed drivers to the basket. Deni is one the others who great at it but it much more of straight line drivers.

Just an interesting thing I followed through the year

I think Ant looked to score as the stats say a bit too much, rather then make the better play. I'm with you on the eye test. He almost got worse as a passer and forced up more tough mids or long twos which is what he worked on. I thought his overall offensive game was maybe on par with 24 and 25, but I think he has more work to do. When to pass, how to use his gavity to pull defenders to him then disc to the open man.

Considering where he started his career, he's gotten obviously way better. But still, no where near the upper echelon of passers.

I think ideally we see a better playmaker and team defender in Ant next season. Those were probably his two weaknesses.

[rapsuperstar31]

One of the more interesting things about Edwards season this year was how he handled drives to the rim, it was completely different this year.

25-26' was his lowest drives per game in his career at just 11. What's crazy tho? He averaged 10 points a game on drives. Nearly a point per drive is insane!

Here's the contrast from the last two seasons

23-24': 14.6 drives/ 10.7 pts
24'-25': 13.2 drives/ 8.5 pts

Much more efficient scoring when driving to the basket, but where it gets interesting is his passing and assist rate

24': pass%- 30.9, ast%- 8.5
25': pass%- 33.1, ast%- 8.1
26': pass%- 23.4, ast%- 5.3

Was less passing and naturally less assist. The drop in assist from 24 to 26 is more than half an assist per game. It tracks with my eye test too because I can't even remember a drive and kick pass from him. Not that it didn't happen, it just didn't stick out. It would be incredibly interesting to understand the reason or cause for this. How conscious of a decision was it? Can we get back to that drive and kick style he was pretty good at in the 24' season?

It's funny that two of the best drive and kickers are Shai and Luka, neither of which are straight line speed drivers to the basket. Deni is one the others who great at it but it much more of straight line drivers.

Just an interesting thing I followed through the year

In years past Ant liked to look for Jaden, Mike, and Naz in the corners on those drive and kicks in the corners. Jaden wasn't playing as much in the corners this year, and Mike didn't play much. He had some assists to Julius on drive and kicks. We were one of the lower volume corner three point shooters, so that is certainly something they should be focusing on. Both OKC and San Antonio give up a lot of corner threes.

[AussieWolf3]

One of the more interesting things about Edwards season this year was how he handled drives to the rim, it was completely different this year.

25-26' was his lowest drives per game in his career at just 11. What's crazy tho? He averaged 10 points a game on drives. Nearly a point per drive is insane!

Here's the contrast from the last two seasons

23-24': 14.6 drives/ 10.7 pts
24'-25': 13.2 drives/ 8.5 pts

Much more efficient scoring when driving to the basket, but where it gets interesting is his passing and assist rate

24': pass%- 30.9, ast%- 8.5
25': pass%- 33.1, ast%- 8.1
26': pass%- 23.4, ast%- 5.3

Was less passing and naturally less assist. The drop in assist from 24 to 26 is more than half an assist per game. It tracks with my eye test too because I can't even remember a drive and kick pass from him. Not that it didn't happen, it just didn't stick out. It would be incredibly interesting to understand the reason or cause for this. How conscious of a decision was it? Can we get back to that drive and kick style he was pretty good at in the 24' season?

It's funny that two of the best drive and kickers are Shai and Luka, neither of which are straight line speed drivers to the basket. Deni is one the others who great at it but it much more of straight line drivers.

Just an interesting thing I followed through the year

In years past Ant liked to look for Jaden, Mike, and Naz in the corners on those drive and kicks in the corners. Jaden wasn't playing as much in the corners this year, and Mike didn't play much. He had some assists to Julius on drive and kicks. We were one of the lower volume corner three point shooters, so that is certainly something they should be focusing on. Both OKC and San Antonio give up a lot of corner threes.

That's a great point Rap! Players who can actually shoot from the corners should be priority