The Case for Okafor

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Monster
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Re: The Case for Okafor

Post by Monster »

Camden0916 wrote:@ryenarussillo: One GM "Okafor can't guard an ashtray. He's one of the worst defensive players I've scouted...and I like him."

@ryenarussillo: @KJJallday You are literally the only person that thinks he's good on D. Not one team has said he's close.


Man that article you posted made me feel better if we ended up with Okafor and then this downer. Lol These tweets remind me of on Cowherd a few weeks ago a former Suns executive that wasn't quite this harsh on Okafor's defense but said its a pretty big concern.
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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: The Case for Okafor

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

I didn't think he was that far behind. He seemed to be just a step slow on Kaminsky who is one of the better offensive big prospects in this draft. Obviously Kaminsky is better than an ash tray. Also with the lack of true post players in the league I don't see it as a big issue. Who's going to take him to the woodshed? Cousins and who else? It's too bad we don't know which GM said it because there are some that I would take their word as the truth and others that probably shouldn't be an NBA GM to begin with.
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Monster
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Re: The Case for Okafor

Post by Monster »

khans2k5 wrote:I didn't think he was that far behind. He seemed to be just a step slow on Kaminsky who is one of the better offensive big prospects in this draft. Obviously Kaminsky is better than an ash tray. Also with the lack of true post players in the league I don't see it as a big issue. Who's going to take him to the woodshed? Cousins and who else? It's too bad we don't know which GM said it because there are some that I would take their word as the truth and others that probably shouldn't be an NBA GM to begin with.


I think his individual post defense is one thing but team defense helping outside the paint and defending the rim is the much bigger concern and that's a big deal in the NBA I don't care what era it is. I tend to think his overall defensive abilities will be ok and he will be at least OK defensively its a tough pill to swallow as a Wolves fan to once again be looking for that shot blocking athletic Big to put next to a guy that isn't really a rim protector.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: The Case for Okafor

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Who knows what agenda that GM could have? For all we know it's someone who hopes Okafor falls to them.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: The Case for Okafor

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Who knows what agenda that GM could have? For all we know it's someone who hopes Okafor falls to them.


Maybe if it wasn't actually an area of concern for Okafor...
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: The Case for Okafor

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Camden wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Who knows what agenda that GM could have? For all we know it's someone who hopes Okafor falls to them.


Maybe if it wasn't actually an area of concern for Okafor...

I guess I'm just saying a quote from an anonymous GM doesn't mean much to me. But I can see where it may mean more to someone else.
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MikkeMan
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Re: The Case for Okafor

Post by MikkeMan »

Q12543 wrote:
Love's net On/Off rating was +7.8 in the regular season and +8.5 in the playoffs, until he got hurt. Tristian Thompson's was a +2.8 in the regular season and a +2.0 in the playoffs. I'm pretty sure Blatt would prefer a healthy Kevin Love right now.


Above numbers are misleading since Love played much more minutes with LeBron than Thompson did. Love had On/Off rating+11.8 when paired with LeBron and -3.2 without LeBron. Thompson had On/Off rating+12.4 when paired with LeBron and -2.5 without LeBron. Based on these numbers it looks like Love had not much impact compared to Thompson for Cavs play.

I would not bother to look playoff numbers because Love and Thompson have played quite different schedule there and sample size is really small.
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MikkeMan
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Re: The Case for Okafor

Post by MikkeMan »

longstrangetrip wrote:
While I agree that Shumpert and Mozgov really help the Cavs defensively, I'm not buying your premise that they are the reason for the Cavs' dramatically improved defense during the playoffs. It can't be...the Cavs had those two guys for over half the regular season, and their defense the last half of the regular season seldom looked like it has the past few weeks.

No, the answer is that the increased minutes for Delly and TT instead of Love and Irving creates a vastly different defensive team, and that's giving the Cavs a chance against a team that looks superior on paper. Defense and offense are completely different concepts, and I continue to think that generally it's defense that wins championships. A team with a brilliant distributor like James who commands so much attention will usually still be able to score if they lose one or two scorers...NBA players can make open shots, and James creates open shots for his teammates. But even a great player like James can't turn a team into a great defensive team if 40% of the starting lineup doesn't seem to consistently care on defense. It's not that Love and Irving can't play defense, much like Kevin Martin, it's more that they are much more interested in the offensive side of the game. We have seen moments where Love, Irving and Martin all played pretty good defense...Irving in Game 1 against the Warriors, for example. But the problem is that they just can't sustain it, and that will always hurt the teams they play for. On the other hand, Delly and TT are offensively challenged, but because of the extraordinary effort they consistently bring on the defensive side of the ball, they are a net positive when they play more minutes. Blatt recognized this when he would bench Love for TT at the end of close games.


Cavs didn't play as good defense in 2nd half as they have played in playoffs but they were pretty good already then. Cavs ranked 11th in Drtg in 2nd half and they ranked higher than for example, Atlanta, Clippers or Houston.

If you check Drtg values for players that have played more than 800 minutes in 2nd half Cavs had four players already in top 40. Mozgov was ranked 10th (3rd highest ranked center after Pachulia and Bogut), Shumbert was ranked 25th, LeBron 40th and Love 17th. Ouch! This might take something away from your argument about Love's bad defense. :) It looks like trading for Mozgov and Shumbert really improved Cavs defense and it looks that Mozgov was really good compliment for Love. Those Drtg stats are ftaken from Basketball reference:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&output=per_poss&year_min=2015&year_max=2015&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=42&game_num_max=82&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=ge&c1val=800&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=ge&c4val=&order_by=opp_pts&order_by_asc=Y

I think it is common that teams play better defense in playoffs than during regular season since the effort level increases dramatically in playoffs. I credit Cavs improved defense mainly increased minutes for both Mozgov and Shumbert and LeBron playing with much higher intensity in defensive end. Difference in defense between Thompson and Love or Delly and Irving is quite minimal.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: The Case for Okafor

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

@SerenaWinters
Jahlil Okafor on Kobe Bryant: "Hopefully when I come here, he'd be super hard on me. I've seen the video of him in practice & I love it."

"When" and not "if"... Alrighty then, Jahlil. Freudian slip perhaps.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: The Case for Okafor

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Camden wrote:@SerenaWinters
Jahlil Okafor on Kobe Bryant: "Hopefully when I come here, he'd be super hard on me. I've seen the video of him in practice & I love it."

"When" and not "if"... Alrighty then, Jahlil. Freudian slip perhaps.

You don't have enough to do young man.
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