Minnesota Sports Forum

I have three tiers of top prospects who I think the Wolves should consider taking with their lottery pick. My first tier is Wiseman. In my view he's in a class by himself based on talent/upside. My second tier consists of Edwards and Ball. My third tier consists of Onyeka Okongwu, Tyrese Halliburton, Obi Toppin, Demi Advija, and Killian Hayes.

Right now, I'd say the best pick for the Wolves would be Okongwu. He's the safest pick as a two-way player reputed to have a great motor. His calling card is defense, which is probably what the Wolves need most. In addition to being the NCAA's 2nd best shot-blocker, he also averaged 1.2 steals per game. He has a great touch around the basket, which shows in his high FG percentage. He's strong at 245 pounds, but watching him play he looks quick and agile. His only weakness is perimeter shooting, but that's something he can develop. I think Wiseman, Ball and Edwards all have higher ceilings than Okongwu, but Okongwu has a higher floor and his ceiling is still pretty high as he draws comparisons to Bam.

If the Wolves hadn't gone all in on Russell as the team's second star with a max contract, I'd be more inclined to go with Ball or Edwards if given the opportunity to draft them. But with the team currently built around KAT, Russell and Beasley, I think the Wolves need to give significant weight to fit and certainty. Okongwu seems to fit what the Wolves need and his high floor provides an important level of certainty that he can be counted on to make a significant positive contribution to the team and not end up a disgruntled bust.

Yeah, I don't think anybody can look at Okongwu's draft profile and be legitimately unhappy to have their team select him. Okongwu doesn't scream star level prospect, however, with Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell already on the payroll, one could conceivably argue that the Wolves' needs matchup with his strengths admirably. I certainly won't scoff Gersson Rosas if he goes that route.

I feel similar about Devin Vassell -- even as high as a top-five pick -- though I can actually see a path to Vassell becoming a star level wing in today's league. Realistically, he's a versatile scorer in the 3/D mold, but the tools and makeup are there for more.

lipoli390 wrote:I have three tiers of top prospects who I think the Wolves should consider taking with their lottery pick. My first tier is Wiseman. In my view he's in a class by himself based on talent/upside. My second tier consists of Edwards and Ball. My third tier consists of Onyeka Okongwu, Tyrese Halliburton, Obi Toppin, Demi Advija, and Killian Hayes.

Right now, I'd say the best pick for the Wolves would be Okongwu. He's the safest pick as a two-way player reputed to have a great motor. His calling card is defense, which is probably what the Wolves need most. In addition to being the NCAA's 2nd best shot-blocker, he also averaged 1.2 steals per game. He has a great touch around the basket, which shows in his high FG percentage. He's strong at 245 pounds, but watching him play he looks quick and agile. His only weakness is perimeter shooting, but that's something he can develop. I think Wiseman, Ball and Edwards all have higher ceilings than Okongwu, but Okongwu has a higher floor and his ceiling is still pretty high as he draws comparisons to Bam.

If the Wolves hadn't gone all in on Russell as the team's second star with a max contract, I'd be more inclined to go with Ball or Edwards if given the opportunity to draft them. But with the team currently built around KAT, Russell and Beasley, I think the Wolves need to give significant weight to fit and certainty. Okongwu seems to fit what the Wolves need and his high floor provides an important level of certainty that he can be counted on to make a significant positive contribution to the team and not end up a disgruntled bust.

Yes. Okongwu, not Obi, is who I meant a few posts back. That's the guy I want too. He'll be our Rodman.

I like Okongwu's lunch-bucket approach to defense. I guess I can see the Bam comparisons, but he just looks slower than Bam, and without the handles. Plus, nobody could have predicted Bam would improve as much as he did this year. Okongwu does remind me a lot of Taj Gibson actually. I really like Taj, and with Towns' lazy approach to defense, we do need a solid defensive big. But Okongwu doesn't really bring much else to the table, that I can see, and he, like Taj, looks like he would have fit better in the NBA 10 years ago, especially without the shooting.

I wish Vassell were longer, but I think we'd be better off with his combination of shooting and defense.

The thing is, we're nowhere near good enough to be picking for fit, but we have to pick for fit because of KAT and DLO. And that's the core issue here.

To me, the fundamental problem is that our stars are so flawed that we have to make these compromises in the first place. KAT and DLO are two truly terrible defenders. They are not physical players. Their style of game seems to prioritize flash over substance, for example with the cute little passes they try unnecessarily. Given this stye of play, it's not surprising they have a history as players putting up big stats on terrible teams. And frankly, I find both of their personalities problematic for the highest paid guys on a team. I don't see any real leadership there.

DLO? Even if you set aside the whole Nick Young thing, what kind of leadership has this guy shown? He's put up good stats on losing teams his whole career. Just look at the way he behaves. He's lookin' pretty and living life like it's one big Instagram feed. He had a chance to play for one of the best organizations in the NBA this season, to be around guys who know how to win (Curry, Kerr, Green, Thompson). And yet I don't remember Kerr or those guys really praising him in any real kind of way and I don't remember hearing or seeing DLO try to learn from the golden opportunity he had there. He is neither a leader nor a good decision-maker. Seriously, watch the DLO video as he visits Doc Antle's zoo--yes the actual guy from Tiger King. In the middle of a pandemic while the league was shut down and other players were isolating themselves and working out, DLO decided to go pet some fluffy white tigers AFTER it was publicly known from the TV show that the guy was essentially a polygamist cult leader. That tells you everything you need to know about his maturity and leadership.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdddAOnuOh8

KAT may be growing up a bit, and I do wonder how his mother's death will affect him, but through this past year we still saw an immature guy who tries to say the right things to the media but isn't really willing to take the criticism or do the work that it takes to be great. When he had another great player on the team in Jimmy, he became passive and withdrew rather than try to work with Butler. Granted, Jimmy's a strong personality, but at least he's driven and works his ass off to win desperately. In contrast, Towns expressed a childish giddiness when we got DLO, a fun-loving guy who has shown no real competitive drive. To me, that contrast in the way Towns reacted to Jimmy and DLO tells me everything I need to know about where his values are. We will never compete for a championship when those are the priorities of our best player.

So. Okongwu. Vassell. Who cares? It doesn't matter with this team as long as Towns and DLO are our highest-paid players. They put up empty stats. They don't play defense. They are relatively unathletic finesse players who prioritize style over substance. They don't take advantage of being around great players and coaches. And they lack leadership. Trade them. Blow it up. Start over. Again.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I like Okongwu's lunch-bucket approach to defense. I guess I can see the Bam comparisons, but he just looks slower than Bam, and without the handles. Plus, nobody could have predicted Bam would improve as much as he did this year. Okongwu does remind me a lot of Taj Gibson actually. I really like Taj, and with Towns' lazy approach to defense, we do need a solid defensive big. But Okongwu doesn't really bring much else to the table, that I can see, and he, like Taj, looks like he would have fit better in the NBA 10 years ago, especially without the shooting.

I wish Vassell were longer, but I think we'd be better off with his combination of shooting and defense.

The thing is, we're nowhere near good enough to be picking for fit, but we have to pick for fit because of KAT and DLO. And that's the core issue here.

To me, the fundamental problem is that our stars are so flawed that we have to make these compromises in the first place. KAT and DLO are two truly terrible defenders. They are not physical players. Their style of game seems to prioritize flash over substance, for example with the cute little passes they try unnecessarily. Given this stye of play, it's not surprising they have a history as players putting up big stats on terrible teams. And frankly, I find both of their personalities problematic for the highest paid guys on a team. I don't see any real leadership there.

DLO? Even if you set aside the whole Nick Young thing, what kind of leadership has this guy shown? He's put up good stats on losing teams his whole career. Just look at the way he behaves. He's lookin' pretty and living life like it's one big Instagram feed. He had a chance to play for one of the best organizations in the NBA this season, to be around guys who know how to win (Curry, Kerr, Green, Thompson). And yet I don't remember Kerr or those guys really praising him in any real kind of way and I don't remember hearing or seeing DLO try to learn from the golden opportunity he had there. He is neither a leader nor a good decision-maker. Seriously, watch the DLO video as he visits Doc Antle's zoo--yes the actual guy from Tiger King. In the middle of a pandemic while the league was shut down and other players were isolating themselves and working out, DLO decided to go pet some fluffy white tigers AFTER it was publicly known from the TV show that the guy was essentially a polygamist cult leader. That tells you everything you need to know about his maturity and leadership.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdddAOnuOh8

KAT may be growing up a bit, and I do wonder how his mother's death will affect him, but through this past year we still saw an immature guy who tries to say the right things to the media but isn't really willing to take the criticism or do the work that it takes to be great. When he had another great player on the team in Jimmy, he became passive and withdrew rather than try to work with Butler. Granted, Jimmy's a strong personality, but at least he's driven and works his ass off to win desperately. In contrast, Towns expressed a childish giddiness when we got DLO, a fun-loving guy who has shown no real competitive drive. To me, that contrast in the way Towns reacted to Jimmy and DLO tells me everything I need to know about where his values are. We will never compete for a championship when those are the priorities of our best player.

So. Okongwu. Vassell. Who cares? It doesn't matter with this team as long as Towns and DLO are our highest-paid players. They put up empty stats. They don't play defense. They are relatively unathletic finesse players who prioritize style over substance. They don't take advantage of being around great players and coaches. And they lack leadership. Trade them. Blow it up. Start over. Again.

We haven't even seen them play together so it's way too early to blow it up. Despite all their faults if they can run a borderline unstoppable 2 man pick and roll together that's enough to build a team around. They're both decent passers. They're still in the early stages of their basketball primes. Let's see what it looks like at all before we talk about blowing this up.

khans2k5 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I like Okongwu's lunch-bucket approach to defense. I guess I can see the Bam comparisons, but he just looks slower than Bam, and without the handles. Plus, nobody could have predicted Bam would improve as much as he did this year. Okongwu does remind me a lot of Taj Gibson actually. I really like Taj, and with Towns' lazy approach to defense, we do need a solid defensive big. But Okongwu doesn't really bring much else to the table, that I can see, and he, like Taj, looks like he would have fit better in the NBA 10 years ago, especially without the shooting.

I wish Vassell were longer, but I think we'd be better off with his combination of shooting and defense.

The thing is, we're nowhere near good enough to be picking for fit, but we have to pick for fit because of KAT and DLO. And that's the core issue here.

To me, the fundamental problem is that our stars are so flawed that we have to make these compromises in the first place. KAT and DLO are two truly terrible defenders. They are not physical players. Their style of game seems to prioritize flash over substance, for example with the cute little passes they try unnecessarily. Given this stye of play, it's not surprising they have a history as players putting up big stats on terrible teams. And frankly, I find both of their personalities problematic for the highest paid guys on a team. I don't see any real leadership there.

DLO? Even if you set aside the whole Nick Young thing, what kind of leadership has this guy shown? He's put up good stats on losing teams his whole career. Just look at the way he behaves. He's lookin' pretty and living life like it's one big Instagram feed. He had a chance to play for one of the best organizations in the NBA this season, to be around guys who know how to win (Curry, Kerr, Green, Thompson). And yet I don't remember Kerr or those guys really praising him in any real kind of way and I don't remember hearing or seeing DLO try to learn from the golden opportunity he had there. He is neither a leader nor a good decision-maker. Seriously, watch the DLO video as he visits Doc Antle's zoo--yes the actual guy from Tiger King. In the middle of a pandemic while the league was shut down and other players were isolating themselves and working out, DLO decided to go pet some fluffy white tigers AFTER it was publicly known from the TV show that the guy was essentially a polygamist cult leader. That tells you everything you need to know about his maturity and leadership.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdddAOnuOh8

KAT may be growing up a bit, and I do wonder how his mother's death will affect him, but through this past year we still saw an immature guy who tries to say the right things to the media but isn't really willing to take the criticism or do the work that it takes to be great. When he had another great player on the team in Jimmy, he became passive and withdrew rather than try to work with Butler. Granted, Jimmy's a strong personality, but at least he's driven and works his ass off to win desperately. In contrast, Towns expressed a childish giddiness when we got DLO, a fun-loving guy who has shown no real competitive drive. To me, that contrast in the way Towns reacted to Jimmy and DLO tells me everything I need to know about where his values are. We will never compete for a championship when those are the priorities of our best player.

So. Okongwu. Vassell. Who cares? It doesn't matter with this team as long as Towns and DLO are our highest-paid players. They put up empty stats. They don't play defense. They are relatively unathletic finesse players who prioritize style over substance. They don't take advantage of being around great players and coaches. And they lack leadership. Trade them. Blow it up. Start over. Again.

We haven't even seen them play together so it's way too early to blow it up. Despite all their faults if they can run a borderline unstoppable 2 man pick and roll together that's enough to build a team around. They're both decent passers. They're still in the early stages of their basketball primes. Let's see what it looks like at all before we talk about blowing this up.

FWIW Russell did lead the Nets to the playoffs in 2018-2019. Also looking back at those Lakers teams he played on...they were honestly really lacking in talent.

I am warming up to Lamelo. I think he could play off the ball and having another ball-handler and passer can't hurt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d3MNxZ07Ic

He should rebound enough to play SF and his defense seems to be getting better. 6'10" wingspan would be enough.

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/11/27/lamelo-ball-scouting-report/

Devin Vassell is unofficially 6'7 with a 6'10 wingspan. Sure, it'd be nice if he was even longer, but that's above average playing size for an NBA wing. That comment puzzled me.

Camden wrote:Devin Vassell is unofficially 6'7 with a 6'10 wingspan. Sure, it'd be nice if he was even longer, but that's above average playing size for an NBA wing. That comment puzzled me.

That's not bad. But at that size he'll be competing with Beasley, Okogie, and Culver for minutes. If he were a few inches longer, he'd also be competing with Hernangomez and Jake Layman. Basically I just want the next Covington, and I think Vassell fits the mold, but is just a bit shorter, which is a bummer. Still, I really like Vassell.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

Camden wrote:Devin Vassell is unofficially 6'7 with a 6'10 wingspan. Sure, it'd be nice if he was even longer, but that's above average playing size for an NBA wing. That comment puzzled me.

That's not bad. But at that size he'll be competing with Beasley, Okogie, and Culver for minutes. If he were a few inches longer, he'd also be competing with Hernangomez and Jake Layman. Basically I just want the next Covington, and I think Vassell fits the mold, but is just a bit shorter, which is a bummer. Still, I really like Vassell.

6'7 with long arms is legit size for either wing position. But I guess what you're saying is you want a tweener that can play next to Towns down low occasionally but still produce as a wing too.

I guess we need to have a talk about Saddiq Bey...