Minnesota Sports Forum

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:24 pm

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:09 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 8:41 pm

He was objectively a great player last season. Go to the Charlotte reddit board and see what their fans are saying about this trade right now. It might give you some much-needed perspective.

I agree that he seemed like a pretty unserious player for most of his time at Charlotte, but last year they played winning basketball and he was the tip of the spear.

He was the offensive leader for the number one offense in the NBA post Jan 1. So yeah, he was elite. He even grabbed 5 boards a game. Thats really solid for a PG, especially in that he avg 28 minutes only. I guess that goes back to the concern if he can stay healthy the fact he played 28 mpg last year.

Looking it up, yeah he avg's 6.6 TRB per 36. Thats high level rebounding for the PG position (avg is 4.7) and Ant is at 5.1 per 36 for reference. Now that could be a function a bit of not playing with an elite level rebounding big like Rudy too. But either way. A nice positive about him, he grabs boards.

1. The data tells us Q is right that LaMelo was an elite and winning player last season. There’s no question about it:

LaMelo Ball’s advanced statistics highlight his status as an elite offensive playmaker with a high usage rate and a proven ability to rack up assists and rebounds. Key advanced metrics from his recent campaigns underline his playstyle:

* True Shooting Percentage (TS%): Hovers around 53.6%, which factors in his three-point and free-throw efficiency.

* Assist Percentage (AST%): Ranks among the highest in the league, generally sitting around 36%, meaning he is actively creating for teammates on over a third of the possessions he is on the floor.

* Usage Percentage (USG%): Consistently in the high 20% to low 30% range, indicating he serves as the primary offensive engine for the Charlotte Hornets.

* Player Efficiency Rating (PER): Sits in the 18.0 to 19.5 range, well above the league average, reflecting strong overall per-minute production.

2. More importantly, his individual play made the team much better when he was on the court and contributed heavily to the team’s success winning games:

2025–26 On/Off Net Rating Splits
The numbers paint a clear picture: when LaMelo is on the floor, the Charlotte Hornets operate as a premier NBA offense. When he sits, their efficiency sharply declines.

Environment Offensive Rating Defensive Rating Net Rating
On-Court 126.1 117.6 +8.5
Off-Court 114.5 112.3 +2.2
Net Delta +11.6 -5.3 +6.3

* The Offensive Surge: His +11.6 on/off offensive rating delta was the 3rd highest in the entire NBA, trailing only MVP-caliber peers Nikola Jokic (+13.0) and Jamal Murray (+12.2)

* The Defensive Tax: The team's defensive rating drops by 5.3 points when he is on the floor. His high-gambling defensive style and heavy energy expenditure on offense slightly lower the team's defensive efficiency, though it is heavily outweighed by his immense offensive generation.

A season-by-season breakdown of Ball’s Win Share statistics includes:

2025–26: 6.1 Win Shares (72 games)

2024–25: 4.1 Win Shares (47 games)

2023–24: 1.8 Win Shares (22 games)

2022–23: 2.2 Win Shares (36 games)

2021–22: 5.8 Win Shares (75 games)

2020–21: 2.8 Win Shares (51 games)

Obviously, LaMelo helps his team win games. Note that his positive impact on winning jumps way up when he stays on the court for the bulk of his team’s games.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 7:09 pm The PF position doesn't really exist anymore, so not sure what all the hand-wringing is over on that front. Julius Randle is an anachronism. It's one of the reasons why he was traded.

Most teams have what I'd call a big wing as their PF. I mean, Jason Tatum has been Boston's starting PF for years. He's 6'8" and about 215 lbs. Is Tobias Harris overpowering his matchups? He averaged 5 rebounds a game this past season. How about Julian Champagnie!?

I agree that after trading Randle and Reid, we definitely need more forward depth. But that doesn't have to be a big-bodied traditional PF, especially with Rudy at Center and Jaden also providing some weakside rim protection.

One route is to go get a wing defender that can start at the other forward position next to Jaden and takes on the main POA assignments. I have no clue who that is, but I'm not too worried about Jaden somehow being overmatched by other PFs. Heck, Ant can guard a lot of PFs and Jaden may be assigned to the secondary wing or guard.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:24 pm

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:09 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 8:41 pm

He was objectively a great player last season. Go to the Charlotte reddit board and see what their fans are saying about this trade right now. It might give you some much-needed perspective.

I agree that he seemed like a pretty unserious player for most of his time at Charlotte, but last year they played winning basketball and he was the tip of the spear.

He was the offensive leader for the number one offense in the NBA post Jan 1. So yeah, he was elite. He even grabbed 5 boards a game. Thats really solid for a PG, especially in that he avg 28 minutes only. I guess that goes back to the concern if he can stay healthy the fact he played 28 mpg last year.

Looking it up, yeah he avg's 6.6 TRB per 36. Thats high level rebounding for the PG position (avg is 4.7) and Ant is at 5.1 per 36 for reference. Now that could be a function a bit of not playing with an elite level rebounding big like Rudy too. But either way. A nice positive about him, he grabs boards.

1. The data tells us Q is right that LaMelo was an elite and winning player last season. There’s no question about it:

LaMelo Ball’s advanced statistics highlight his status as an elite offensive playmaker with a high usage rate and a proven ability to rack up assists and rebounds. Key advanced metrics from his recent campaigns underline his playstyle:

* True Shooting Percentage (TS%): Hovers around 53.6%, which factors in his three-point and free-throw efficiency.

* Assist Percentage (AST%): Ranks among the highest in the league, generally sitting around 36%, meaning he is actively creating for teammates on over a third of the possessions he is on the floor.

* Usage Percentage (USG%): Consistently in the high 20% to low 30% range, indicating he serves as the primary offensive engine for the Charlotte Hornets.

* Player Efficiency Rating (PER): Sits in the 18.0 to 19.5 range, well above the league average, reflecting strong overall per-minute production.

2. More importantly, his individual play made the team much better when he was on the court and contributed heavily to the team’s success winning games:

2025–26 On/Off Net Rating Splits
The numbers paint a clear picture: when LaMelo is on the floor, the Charlotte Hornets operate as a premier NBA offense. When he sits, their efficiency sharply declines.

Environment Offensive Rating Defensive Rating Net Rating
On-Court 126.1 117.6 +8.5
Off-Court 114.5 112.3 +2.2
Net Delta +11.6 -5.3 +6.3

* The Offensive Surge: His +11.6 on/off offensive rating delta was the 3rd highest in the entire NBA, trailing only MVP-caliber peers Nikola Jokic (+13.0) and Jamal Murray (+12.2)

* The Defensive Tax: The team's defensive rating drops by 5.3 points when he is on the floor. His high-gambling defensive style and heavy energy expenditure on offense slightly lower the team's defensive efficiency, though it is heavily outweighed by his immense offensive generation.

Here’s how LaMelo compared to Anthony Edwards a few inarguably great players whose teams have won NBA championships:

Jokic: +17.3
SGA: +9.1
LaMelo: +6.3
Ant: +3.2
Brunson: -3.3

A season-by-season breakdown of Ball’s Win Share statistics includes:

2025–26: 6.1 Win Shares (72 games)

2024–25: 4.1 Win Shares (47 games)

2023–24: 1.8 Win Shares (22 games)

2022–23: 2.2 Win Shares (36 games)

2021–22: 5.8 Win Shares (75 games)

2020–21: 2.8 Win Shares (51 games)

Obviously, LaMelo helps his team win games. Note that his positive impact on winning jumps way up when he stays on the court for the bulk of his team’s games.

Mnwild1128 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:35 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:24 pm

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:09 pm

He was the offensive leader for the number one offense in the NBA post Jan 1. So yeah, he was elite. He even grabbed 5 boards a game. Thats really solid for a PG, especially in that he avg 28 minutes only. I guess that goes back to the concern if he can stay healthy the fact he played 28 mpg last year.

Looking it up, yeah he avg's 6.6 TRB per 36. Thats high level rebounding for the PG position (avg is 4.7) and Ant is at 5.1 per 36 for reference. Now that could be a function a bit of not playing with an elite level rebounding big like Rudy too. But either way. A nice positive about him, he grabs boards.

1. The data tells us Q is right that LaMelo was an elite and winning player last season. There’s no question about it:

LaMelo Ball’s advanced statistics highlight his status as an elite offensive playmaker with a high usage rate and a proven ability to rack up assists and rebounds. Key advanced metrics from his recent campaigns underline his playstyle:

* True Shooting Percentage (TS%): Hovers around 53.6%, which factors in his three-point and free-throw efficiency.

* Assist Percentage (AST%): Ranks among the highest in the league, generally sitting around 36%, meaning he is actively creating for teammates on over a third of the possessions he is on the floor.

* Usage Percentage (USG%): Consistently in the high 20% to low 30% range, indicating he serves as the primary offensive engine for the Charlotte Hornets.

* Player Efficiency Rating (PER): Sits in the 18.0 to 19.5 range, well above the league average, reflecting strong overall per-minute production.

2. More importantly, his individual play made the team much better when he was on the court and contributed heavily to the team’s success winning games:

2025–26 On/Off Net Rating Splits
The numbers paint a clear picture: when LaMelo is on the floor, the Charlotte Hornets operate as a premier NBA offense. When he sits, their efficiency sharply declines.

Environment Offensive Rating Defensive Rating Net Rating
On-Court 126.1 117.6 +8.5
Off-Court 114.5 112.3 +2.2
Net Delta +11.6 -5.3 +6.3

* The Offensive Surge: His +11.6 on/off offensive rating delta was the 3rd highest in the entire NBA, trailing only MVP-caliber peers Nikola Jokic (+13.0) and Jamal Murray (+12.2)

* The Defensive Tax: The team's defensive rating drops by 5.3 points when he is on the floor. His high-gambling defensive style and heavy energy expenditure on offense slightly lower the team's defensive efficiency, though it is heavily outweighed by his immense offensive generation.

A season-by-season breakdown of Ball’s Win Share statistics includes:

2025–26: 6.1 Win Shares (72 games)

2024–25: 4.1 Win Shares (47 games)

2023–24: 1.8 Win Shares (22 games)

2022–23: 2.2 Win Shares (36 games)

2021–22: 5.8 Win Shares (75 games)

2020–21: 2.8 Win Shares (51 games)

Obviously, LaMelo helps his team win games. Note that his positive impact on winning jumps way up when he stays on the court for the bulk of his team’s games.

That is all fine and dandy. But he is the Rudy Gobert of offense. All offense. No defense. There is a reason i did not want Gobert before the trade ever happened. There was a ceiling to his game. Same applies to Melo. Imo.


Yall can try talking this up all you want. But i never would have traded for Gobert, Randle or Melo. I prefer two way players.

BeenLurkin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 7:38 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 7:20 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 7:09 pm The PF position doesn't really exist anymore, so not sure what all the hand-wringing is over on that front. Julius Randle is an anachronism. It's one of the reasons why he was traded.

Most teams have what I'd call a big wing as their PF. I mean, Jason Tatum has been Boston's starting PF for years. He's 6'8" and about 215 lbs. Is Tobias Harris overpowering his matchups? He averaged 5 rebounds a game this past season. How about Julian Champagnie!?

I agree that after trading Randle and Reid, we definitely need more forward depth. But that doesn't have to be a big-bodied traditional PF, especially with Rudy at Center and Jaden also providing some weakside rim protection.

One route is to go get a wing defender that can start at the other forward position next to Jaden and takes on the main POA assignments. I have no clue who that is, but I'm not too worried about Jaden somehow being overmatched by other PFs. Heck, Ant can guard a lot of PFs and Jaden may be assigned to the secondary wing or guard.

That's what I've been saying too!! It boggles my mind that Jaden can't play as 4 to some people.

Based on your comments tho, you seem less convinced of Ayo playing small forward, yes?

Yeah a fun exercise is to look through the west and see what PF starter your afraid will cook Jaden.

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:47 pm

Mnwild1128 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:35 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:24 pm

1. The data tells us Q is right that LaMelo was an elite and winning player last season. There’s no question about it:

LaMelo Ball’s advanced statistics highlight his status as an elite offensive playmaker with a high usage rate and a proven ability to rack up assists and rebounds. Key advanced metrics from his recent campaigns underline his playstyle:

* True Shooting Percentage (TS%): Hovers around 53.6%, which factors in his three-point and free-throw efficiency.

* Assist Percentage (AST%): Ranks among the highest in the league, generally sitting around 36%, meaning he is actively creating for teammates on over a third of the possessions he is on the floor.

* Usage Percentage (USG%): Consistently in the high 20% to low 30% range, indicating he serves as the primary offensive engine for the Charlotte Hornets.

* Player Efficiency Rating (PER): Sits in the 18.0 to 19.5 range, well above the league average, reflecting strong overall per-minute production.

2. More importantly, his individual play made the team much better when he was on the court and contributed heavily to the team’s success winning games:

2025–26 On/Off Net Rating Splits
The numbers paint a clear picture: when LaMelo is on the floor, the Charlotte Hornets operate as a premier NBA offense. When he sits, their efficiency sharply declines.

Environment Offensive Rating Defensive Rating Net Rating
On-Court 126.1 117.6 +8.5
Off-Court 114.5 112.3 +2.2
Net Delta +11.6 -5.3 +6.3

* The Offensive Surge: His +11.6 on/off offensive rating delta was the 3rd highest in the entire NBA, trailing only MVP-caliber peers Nikola Jokic (+13.0) and Jamal Murray (+12.2)

* The Defensive Tax: The team's defensive rating drops by 5.3 points when he is on the floor. His high-gambling defensive style and heavy energy expenditure on offense slightly lower the team's defensive efficiency, though it is heavily outweighed by his immense offensive generation.

A season-by-season breakdown of Ball’s Win Share statistics includes:

2025–26: 6.1 Win Shares (72 games)

2024–25: 4.1 Win Shares (47 games)

2023–24: 1.8 Win Shares (22 games)

2022–23: 2.2 Win Shares (36 games)

2021–22: 5.8 Win Shares (75 games)

2020–21: 2.8 Win Shares (51 games)

Obviously, LaMelo helps his team win games. Note that his positive impact on winning jumps way up when he stays on the court for the bulk of his team’s games.

That is all fine and dandy. But he is the Rudy Gobert of offense. All offense. No defense. There is a reason i did not want Gobert before the trade ever happened. There was a ceiling to his game. Same applies to Melo. Imo.


Yall can try talking this up all you want. But i never would have traded for Gobert, Randle or Melo. I prefer two way players.

THE poster child for all offense and no defense just won a championship and fmvp.

Melo, unlike Rudy, at least has the tool to be average on the opposite side of the floor. Rudy, is clumsy, not a playmaker and has no shot outside of 4 ft - he simply has no tools to be a passable offensive center. Melo at least has the size and athleticism to take on the least threatening matchup. It's theoretical of course, but just having that length matters.

But it's fine... We can just toss out good statical arguments that correlate with winning

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:52 pm

BeenLurkin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 7:38 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 7:20 pm

That's what I've been saying too!! It boggles my mind that Jaden can't play as 4 to some people.

Based on your comments tho, you seem less convinced of Ayo playing small forward, yes?

Yeah a fun exercise is to look through the west and see what PF starter your afraid will cook Jaden.

The worry isn't about a PF cooking Jaden, it's about Ayo being able to handle the best wings in the league. Jaden will be fine no matter where he plays, it's the cost of taking him off of the best wings and entrusting that duty to Ayo.

Mnwild1128 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:35 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:24 pm

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:09 pm

He was the offensive leader for the number one offense in the NBA post Jan 1. So yeah, he was elite. He even grabbed 5 boards a game. Thats really solid for a PG, especially in that he avg 28 minutes only. I guess that goes back to the concern if he can stay healthy the fact he played 28 mpg last year.

Looking it up, yeah he avg's 6.6 TRB per 36. Thats high level rebounding for the PG position (avg is 4.7) and Ant is at 5.1 per 36 for reference. Now that could be a function a bit of not playing with an elite level rebounding big like Rudy too. But either way. A nice positive about him, he grabs boards.

1. The data tells us Q is right that LaMelo was an elite and winning player last season. There’s no question about it:

LaMelo Ball’s advanced statistics highlight his status as an elite offensive playmaker with a high usage rate and a proven ability to rack up assists and rebounds. Key advanced metrics from his recent campaigns underline his playstyle:

* True Shooting Percentage (TS%): Hovers around 53.6%, which factors in his three-point and free-throw efficiency.

* Assist Percentage (AST%): Ranks among the highest in the league, generally sitting around 36%, meaning he is actively creating for teammates on over a third of the possessions he is on the floor.

* Usage Percentage (USG%): Consistently in the high 20% to low 30% range, indicating he serves as the primary offensive engine for the Charlotte Hornets.

* Player Efficiency Rating (PER): Sits in the 18.0 to 19.5 range, well above the league average, reflecting strong overall per-minute production.

2. More importantly, his individual play made the team much better when he was on the court and contributed heavily to the team’s success winning games:

2025–26 On/Off Net Rating Splits
The numbers paint a clear picture: when LaMelo is on the floor, the Charlotte Hornets operate as a premier NBA offense. When he sits, their efficiency sharply declines.

Environment Offensive Rating Defensive Rating Net Rating
On-Court 126.1 117.6 +8.5
Off-Court 114.5 112.3 +2.2
Net Delta +11.6 -5.3 +6.3

* The Offensive Surge: His +11.6 on/off offensive rating delta was the 3rd highest in the entire NBA, trailing only MVP-caliber peers Nikola Jokic (+13.0) and Jamal Murray (+12.2)

* The Defensive Tax: The team's defensive rating drops by 5.3 points when he is on the floor. His high-gambling defensive style and heavy energy expenditure on offense slightly lower the team's defensive efficiency, though it is heavily outweighed by his immense offensive generation.

A season-by-season breakdown of Ball’s Win Share statistics includes:

2025–26: 6.1 Win Shares (72 games)

2024–25: 4.1 Win Shares (47 games)

2023–24: 1.8 Win Shares (22 games)

2022–23: 2.2 Win Shares (36 games)

2021–22: 5.8 Win Shares (75 games)

2020–21: 2.8 Win Shares (51 games)

Obviously, LaMelo helps his team win games. Note that his positive impact on winning jumps way up when he stays on the court for the bulk of his team’s games.

That is all fine and dandy. But he is the Rudy Gobert of offense. All offense. No defense. There is a reason i did not want Gobert before the trade ever happened. There was a ceiling to his game. Same applies to Melo. Imo.


Yall can try talking this up all you want. But i never would have traded for Gobert, Randle or Melo. I prefer two way players.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:57 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 9:52 pm

BeenLurkin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2026 7:38 pm

Yeah a fun exercise is to look through the west and see what PF starter your afraid will cook Jaden.

The worry isn't about a PF cooking Jaden, it's about Ayo being able to handle the best wings in the league. Jaden will be fine no matter where he plays, it's the cost of taking him off of the best wings and entrusting that duty to Ayo.

I agree with Cool on this. And again, I think there’s a rebounding issue and a depth issue that requires adding another big to the roster. When I say a big, I mean someone with some size and physicality who can rebound and defend against physical players.