Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:I always thought that Brooks was not very good defensively while his brother was legit. I guess they are considered identical here. Same with KAT, but of course KAT is supreme on offense.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lopezbr01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/townska01.html

Career defensive rating.

KAT - 108
Brook - 108
Robin - 109

B-ball reference is not the best place to get D-rating from. It's not the same as the D-rtg on NBA.com and other stat sites that tells us how many points per 100 possessions a team gives up when Player A is on the floor. B-ball reference mixes in individual defensive stats like defensive rebounds and blocks as well. KAT (and Dieng as well) do well in the box score defensive metrics, which makes them look better on defense than they really are when it comes to the b-ball reference Drtg.

Brook is probably around a career Drtng of 107 vs. KAT's 112 or so. In fact, Brook's worst years in Drtg are equivalent to KAT's best years.

Bottom line is that this team has been near the bottom in Opponent eFG% and overall Drtg over the past 5+ years. KAT and Wiggins have BY FAR played the most minutes during that timeframe. If either of them were actually plus defenders, we wouldn't be this bad year after year. Dieng hasn't helped much either.

Q12543 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:I always thought that Brooks was not very good defensively while his brother was legit. I guess they are considered identical here. Same with KAT, but of course KAT is supreme on offense.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lopezbr01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/townska01.html

Career defensive rating.

KAT - 108
Brook - 108
Robin - 109

B-ball reference is not the best place to get D-rating from. It's not the same as the D-rtg on NBA.com and other stat sites that tells us how many points per 100 possessions a team gives up when Player A is on the floor. B-ball reference mixes in individual defensive stats like defensive rebounds and blocks as well. KAT (and Dieng as well) do well in the box score defensive metrics, which makes them look better on defense than they really are when it comes to the b-ball reference Drtg.

Brook is probably around a career Drtng of 107 vs. KAT's 112 or so. In fact, Brook's worst years in Drtg are equivalent to KAT's best years.

Bottom line is that this team has been near the bottom in Opponent eFG% and overall Drtg over the past 5+ years. KAT and Wiggins have BY FAR played the most minutes during that timeframe. If either of them were actually plus defenders, we wouldn't be this bad year after year. Dieng hasn't helped much either.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:I always thought that Brooks was not very good defensively while his brother was legit. I guess they are considered identical here. Same with KAT, but of course KAT is supreme on offense.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lopezbr01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/townska01.html

Career defensive rating.

KAT - 108
Brook - 108
Robin - 109

Tell the whole story. This year Brook is 101, and last year he was 103. This is his time with Milwaukee.

I imagine KAT would be 101 there as well. Or you disagree? Obviously having other stud defenders makes the difference. Brook didn't become a stud when he showed up on Wisconsin hard courts. lol

Wolves, I'm just saying I watch every Bucks game, therefore I'm not basing my comment on any advanced stat. But what I can tell you is Lopez along with Giannis anchors that defense. And it might be the best defense in the league. KAT does not give the Wolves what Brook gives the Bucks on defense, not even close.

Hypothetically putting in KAT on the Bucks instead of Brook makes their defense worse you think? I don't think Brook is that much different than KAT on defense, maybe he is slightly better. Giannis makes that defense roll along with solid other players.

Yeah I do. Brook doesn't get pushed around like KAT does. The Bucks would be better with KAT obviously, but not on defense.

crazy-canuck wrote:You can build a decent defense around guys like jokic or lopez because they do something kat and dieng cant do, stand their ground.

Jokic is a bad individual defender, so he isnt going to jump around for blocked shots. Hes a 7fter, all he does is put his arms up and put his body in the way. I think if kat or dieng just did that, it woukd be a huge improvement for them.

Just wall up. Just wall up. They don't make the spectacular block, but they also dont give up easy looks at the rim.

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:A lot of the elite teams in the League this season don't have starting centers who are particularly good defensively. The Clippers' Zubac is big, but not particularly good defensively unless your dumb enough (like Wolves players last night) to dribble right at him and then stop in front of him to launch an awkward jump shot rather than dribbling past him or taking a step-back jumper. The Bucks' Brook Lopez isn't much of a defender. Neither Bam nor Leonard is a particularly good interior defender for the Heat. The Celtics Kanter isn't known for his defense. I wouldn't call Jokic a particularly good defender. What all those teams have are very good defenders at the wing and/or PG positions. And they play well defensively as a team. KAT isn't the problem. He's part of the solution. Trading KAT would be in line with the boneheaded tradition of the Wolves history of front office follies. It's the job of the Wolves front office to find and keep the level of talent and the right mix of players to put around KAT. Right now, he needs three things:

1. He needs an all-star caliber wing or PG who can hand the ball like it's on a string and create shots for himself and others. Wiggins isn't that guy. While he's improved his handle this season, it's still shaky and far short of what we need. And he isn't particularly good at creating for others.

2. KAT also needs a really good 3-point shooter or two around him. Right now, there's no one.

3. Finally, KAT needs an interior big who can defend and block shots to help out the team's interior defense and mitigate KAT's defensive weakness.

The key and hard part will be #1. But the the front office needs to find that player either on the roster via development or externally through the draft, trade or free-agency. McHale and Flip blew their chance of building a sustainable contender around KG when they lost patience with Chauncey Billups and let him go in favor of the aging, injury-prone alternative. And they blew it other times by failing to draft the right player, one of which might have been Josh Howard instead of Ebi. Trading KAT would be dumb and an act of failure. It's time that we had a smart front office making savvy decisions. Whether we have that in Rosas an his minions remains to be seen.

Lip, I have to disagree with some of this. Defense is played from the inside out. KAT is absolutely a big reason we are so poor defensively. In my opinion his defense keeps him from being a special player even though he is ridiculous on offense. If KAT was really that great, he would be able to take what we have and get this team into the playoffs. But he's not at that level. And you're wrong about Brook Lopez. He cleans up most of what penetrates the Bucks perimeter defense. He's a big reason the Bucks are so good defensively.

I was just going to say this. I'm not saying I disagree with your bullet points but on the individual defenders. Brook Lopez was 5th in NBA at being a rim protector and #2 as a starter and Bam is getting buzz as defensive player of the year and is set up to make all defensive team.

Big difference also with guys you mentioned outside of Jokic is the wolves are built around Kat unlike those other guys

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The Wolves need to learn how to draft guys like Donte Divencenzo. He was drafted 17th overall and I would trade two Culvers for him.

Q12543 wrote:The other issue with KAT defensively is that even if he does buckle down and get better on that end, he is so valuable on offense that he can't afford foul trouble or even exert too much energy on that end. So even without his defensive positioning issues, he still is a bit capped out on how good defensively he can be given his role on the other end of the court. This is why some advocate he should play PF instead of C.

Practically speaking though, KAT isn't going anywhere this offseason, no matter how poorly we perform. However, I think due to the position he plays and his primary weakness as a defender makes it nearly impossible to build anything but a moderately decent playoff team around him at best.

I guess one approach would be to just seek to entertain and go all-out for ball handlers and shooters to try to build a top 5 offensive team and accept the fact that the only way we win is by out-gunning teams.