Again I don't think Dieng is actually a deal breaker as much as a way to make the salaries work. I also have doubts that moving him is as much of a priority as the reports the last few months have suggested. Would they like to move him? Sure but I don't think it's that high of a priority for them.
Based on what? Seems like that is what is constantly being thrown around. It is likely the single biggest deal breaker due to the first round picks that will be required to send him to another team. His contract is the biggest of Thibs mistakes to this point.
Again I don't think Dieng is actually a deal breaker as much as a way to make the salaries work. I also have doubts that moving him is as much of a priority as the reports the last few months have suggested. Would they like to move him? Sure but I don't think it's that high of a priority for them.
Based on what? Seems like that is what is constantly being thrown around. It is likely the single biggest deal breaker due to the first round picks that will be required to send him to another team. His contract is the biggest of Thibs mistakes to this point.
I'm afraid SJM is right. Gorgui comes up as part of every reported trade scenario. I think it's one of Thibodeau's "trade parameters." One of Thibodeau's weaknesses is his inflexible, overly methodical mind along with his stubborn streak. He's the sort who comes up with what he called his "deal parameters" and who then sticks to those parameters. Getting rid of Gorgui's contract is probably one of those deal parameters and I unfortunately don't see him backing away from it. We don't need to include Gorgui for salary purposes to get both Richardson and Bam.
Again I don't think Dieng is actually a deal breaker as much as a way to make the salaries work. I also have doubts that moving him is as much of a priority as the reports the last few months have suggested. Would they like to move him? Sure but I don't think it's that high of a priority for them.
Based on what? Seems like that is what is constantly being thrown around. It is likely the single biggest deal breaker due to the first round picks that will be required to send him to another team. His contract is the biggest of Thibs mistakes to this point.
I'm afraid SJM is right. Gorgui comes up as part of every reported trade scenario. I think it's one of Thibodeau's "trade parameters." One of Thibodeau's weaknesses is his inflexible, overly methodical mind along with his stubborn streak. He's the sort who comes up with what he called his "deal parameters" and who then sticks to those parameters. Getting rid of Gorgui's contract is probably one of those deal parameters and I unfortunately don't see him backing away from it. We don't need to include Gorgui for salary purposes to get both Richardson and Bam.
I think we might.
Any trade is going to bring in a crap longer contract like whiteside or johnson just to make the salaries work.
Again I don't think Dieng is actually a deal breaker as much as a way to make the salaries work. I also have doubts that moving him is as much of a priority as the reports the last few months have suggested. Would they like to move him? Sure but I don't think it's that high of a priority for them.
Based on what? Seems like that is what is constantly being thrown around. It is likely the single biggest deal breaker due to the first round picks that will be required to send him to another team. His contract is the biggest of Thibs mistakes to this point.
I'm afraid SJM is right. Gorgui comes up as part of every reported trade scenario. I think it's one of Thibodeau's "trade parameters." One of Thibodeau's weaknesses is his inflexible, overly methodical mind along with his stubborn streak. He's the sort who comes up with what he called his "deal parameters" and who then sticks to those parameters. Getting rid of Gorgui's contract is probably one of those deal parameters and I unfortunately don't see him backing away from it. We don't need to include Gorgui for salary purposes to get both Richardson and Bam.
I don't even want Whiteside or Waiters for that matter on our squad. I don't see how either works here. Both have had attitude issues, and that is on a Miami squad. It would only be worse in Minny. Is Whiteside going to start along side KAT, because I don't see that working. As much as I don't like Gorgui's game, I think we can wait out his contract.
khans2k5 wrote:If we get Richardson and Bam I'm good with whatever else is needed to get the deal done.
Agreed. I'd take that deal and not look back.
Absolutely. Our only true deal parameter with Miami should be getting those two players. We should be willing to forego insisting on the 1st round pick or including Gorgui in the package if either stands in the way of getting both Richardson and Bam.
There are at least two good options for the Wolves that would comply with the salary match requirement, one with Gorgui included, the other without:
1. Butler for Richardson, Bam and Winslow.
2. Butler and Gorgui for Richardson, Bam and Whiteside. I'd be willing to include Patton if that's what it took to get this deal done. In fact, I'd prefer to include Patton because it would avoid putting us over the luxury tax threshold and would actually reduce our payroll by about $500K.
khans2k5 wrote:If we get Richardson and Bam I'm good with whatever else is needed to get the deal done.
Agreed. I'd take that deal and not look back.
Absolutely. Our only true deal parameter with Miami should be getting those two players. We should be willing to forego insisting on the 1st round pick or including Gorgui in the package if either stands in the way of getting both Richardson and Bam.
There are at least two good options for the Wolves that would comply with the salary match requirement, one with Gorgui included, the other without:
1. Butler for Richardson, Bam and Winslow.
2. Butler and Gorgui for Richardson, Bam and Whiteside. I'd be willing to include Patton if that's what it took to get this deal done. In fact, I'd prefer to include Patton because it would avoid putting us over the luxury tax threshold and would actually reduce our payroll by about $500K.
I agree that Bam and Richardson are the assets we should be looking for in this. If WInslow comes over, that's fine, but I am not a fan of Whiteside. Maybe we could get James Johnson thrown in and send back Patton.
If we need to get back one of the big contracts that Miami has, I would prefer Tyler Johnson. At least he would be OK rotational player and his contract is much shorter than what Waiters has left.
Man, it's crazy how quickly everyone has jumped to overvaluing everyone else's players and undervaluing Jimmy. Now, we are debating that Jimmy isn't worth Bam, Richardson and later round 1st?
I have to be honest and say I never saw the Heat play last season, but statistically speaking, both those players are mid-level role players at best. Richardson, while decent 3 point shooter and good defender, will never be a greatly efficient offensive player because he literally never gets to the FT line. And while PER is not a perfect stat, what it does tell you is if a player is efficient in what he does. Josh is well below average at 13. And while I love the idea of an athletic big like Bam......what is he? Is he a stud defender? If so, his stats don't show it. Low steals, blocks and middling rebounding. I get it, he is young....but so was Lip's guy John Collins....now he looks like a player.
While I want a deal to be done, I think the front office is doing what they have to do right now. We have leverage, despite what many say. Butler is a top 10-15 guy, and only one team gets to have him. That creates value for someone. Many have debated Jimmy's value in direct correlation to 16 incremental wins last year. While he may not have been the ONLY reason for this improvement, I think we can all agree that he was the catalyst for the majority. He will certainly improve his next team in the same fashion....again, creating a lot of value in a league where win now is important, especially to guys like Pat Reilly.
If the Wolves weren't "asking for the world" (which is a ridiculous statement given the guys I am hearing are being offered), then they wouldn't be doing their jobs. For anyone that has ever negotiated or taken training, one of the MAJOR components to ANY negotiations is to open big. You can always back off the demand, but rarely if ever can you come back and ask for more. It's silly to think that these guys should just be fine with asking for mediocre assets for a star player. Again, trust the process.
Hicks123 wrote:Man, it's crazy how quickly everyone has jumped to overvaluing everyone else's players and undervaluing Jimmy. Now, we are debating that Jimmy isn't worth Bam, Richardson and later round 1st?
I have to be honest and say I never saw the Heat play last season, but statistically speaking, both those players are mid-level role players at best. Richardson, while decent 3 point shooter and good defender, will never be a greatly efficient offensive player because he literally never gets to the FT line. And while PER is not a perfect stat, what it does tell you is if a player is efficient in what he does. Josh is well below average at 13. And while I love the idea of an athletic big like Bam......what is he? Is he a stud defender? If so, his stats don't show it. Low steals, blocks and middling rebounding. I get it, he is young....but so was Lip's guy John Collins....now he looks like a player.
While I want a deal to be done, I think the front office is doing what they have to do right now. We have leverage, despite what many say. Butler is a top 10-15 guy, and only one team gets to have him. That creates value for someone. Many have debated Jimmy's value in direct correlation to 16 incremental wins last year. While he may not have been the ONLY reason for this improvement, I think we can all agree that he was the catalyst for the majority. He will certainly improve his next team in the same fashion....again, creating a lot of value in a league where win now is important, especially to guys like Pat Reilly.
If the Wolves weren't "asking for the world" (which is a ridiculous statement given the guys I am hearing are being offered), then they wouldn't be doing their jobs. For anyone that has ever negotiated or taken training, one of the MAJOR components to ANY negotiations is to open big. You can always back off the demand, but rarely if ever can you come back and ask for more. It's silly to think that these guys should just be fine with asking for mediocre assets for a star player. Again, trust the process.
Richardson is nothing special....yet. But he is a competent two-way starter. He's already better than Wiggins in my opinion. He's also on a great contract. If you look at other advanced stats he does quite well.
We aren't going to get more than .60 or .70 cents on the dollar for Butler, so it really comes down to whether we benefit more from the best offer available or just rolling with him this season and then seeing what we can do with his cap space.
