Minnesota Sports Forum

kekgeek1 wrote:

Sundog60 wrote:Sam Amico is reporting:
- Sixers have had "multiple" conversations on Ben Simmons. Feeling around NBA is he will be moved within the next week. (Sixers will likely deny, "but they are trying," source says.)
- Some suspect the Nuggets will be a sleeper here.
- When it comes to possible Simmons trades, one GM told Hoops Wire: "Don't think in terms of straight-up trades." In other words, if it happens, could end up being multi-team deal.
- Final note: Ex-#TWolves basketball chief Gersson Rosas and new interim man Sachin Gupta had not been on speaking terms recently, but I've been told Minnesota's interest in Ben Simmons "has not waned."

To go along with that. Meatsauce on the power trip this morning said he is hearing this firing increases Ben Simmons to the Wolves and that Morey hated Rosas

Kek, I tend to agree with that take, and not only because Morey hates Rosas (if he indeed does). I don't know if Gupta was heavily involved in deals that brought in Dlo and Beasley, but to the extent that he can say "that was all Rosas", he may be more amenable to letting either or both of them go. It's human nature to want to hold on to players you brought in...letting them go may seem like an admission that you made a bad deal. I'm still pessimistic a Simmons deal happens for the Wolves, but I'm a little more optimistic today than yesterday.

FNG wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Sundog60 wrote:Sam Amico is reporting:
- Sixers have had "multiple" conversations on Ben Simmons. Feeling around NBA is he will be moved within the next week. (Sixers will likely deny, "but they are trying," source says.)
- Some suspect the Nuggets will be a sleeper here.
- When it comes to possible Simmons trades, one GM told Hoops Wire: "Don't think in terms of straight-up trades." In other words, if it happens, could end up being multi-team deal.
- Final note: Ex-#TWolves basketball chief Gersson Rosas and new interim man Sachin Gupta had not been on speaking terms recently, but I've been told Minnesota's interest in Ben Simmons "has not waned."

To go along with that. Meatsauce on the power trip this morning said he is hearing this firing increases Ben Simmons to the Wolves and that Morey hated Rosas

Kek, I tend to agree with that take, and not only because Morey hates Rosas (if he indeed does). I don't know if Gupta was heavily involved in deals that brought in Dlo and Beasley, but to the extent that he can say "that was all Rosas", he may be more amenable to letting either or both of them go. It's human nature to want to hold on to players you brought in...letting them go may seem like an admission that you made a bad deal. I'm still pessimistic a Simmons deal happens for the Wolves, but I'm a little more optimistic today than yesterday.

FWIW Jon K said on his podcast today that he thinks Gupta has a better relationship with Morey than Rosas. He didn't say that was going to exactly help lead to a deal or anything but yeah.

The biggest question that none of us can answer with complete confidence is how much does Sachin Gupta value D'Angelo Russell? Is his vision one that rolls out a talented foursome with D-Lo, or does he see D-Lo as a trade chip that can help him land a Ben Simmons? I can't answer that, but we all know what I'm hoping for.

Camden0916 wrote:The biggest question that none of us can answer with complete confidence is how much does Sachin Gupta value D'Angelo Russell? Is his vision one that rolls out a talented foursome with D-Lo, or does he see D-Lo as a trade chip that can help him land a Ben Simmons? I can't answer that, but we all know what I'm hoping for.

Yes that's a question I've been asking too.

Let's say Gupta does see Russell as an asset to acquire Simmons. What we still don't know is how Morey values Russell. Like I have said before it makes sense that Morey would value a guard like him but how much value is Russell to Morey and the Sixers?

FWIW Jon K said in his last podcast that his sense is that the Wolves still very much in on Simmons.

Camden wrote:The biggest question that none of us can answer with complete confidence is how much does Sachin Gupta value D'Angelo Russell? Is his vision one that rolls out a talented foursome with D-Lo, or does he see D-Lo as a trade chip that can help him land a Ben Simmons? I can't answer that, but we all know what I'm hoping for.

I agree, Cam. I still have doubts about whether the Wolves will end up with Simmons. But if they do, we can be sure the Wolves outgoing package will be built around either DLO or Beasley - possibly both. I agree the biggest question for Wolves fans right now in relation to Simmons is how much Gupta values Russell. I'm going to venture a guess that he values DLO less than Rosas did. Here's my reasoning. First, it seemed clear to me that Rosas absolutely loved DLO. It was apparent in how Rosas was glowing during DLO's introductory press conference and it was also apparent in what Rosas gave up to get him and the fact that Rosas jumped at the deal rather than waiting until the off-season. Second, I suspect that Gupta was among the internal voices referred to by Jon K as opposed to the light protections Rosas agreed to in his deal for DLO. If nothing else, it seemed clear that Rosas considered the DLO acquisition his signature move and I doubt Gupta has the same sense of ownership in or love for that deal, even though he might like DLO as a player.

So my guess is that Gupta will definitely put DLO in play for Simmons. The question is whether he'll also be willing to include Beasley and, if so, who he'd expect to get back in return to match salaries. If it's just DLO, how many future 1st-round picks will Gupta be willing to give up and with what levels of protection? Will Gupta want to mortgage the organization's long-term future by dealing half of its remaining 1st-round picks this decade? Will the new owners, who are obviously forward looking, be willing to sign off on a deal that gives up a lot of future 1st-round picks before they even become majority owners? Gupta's academic credentials tell us he's very smart. But we can't know yet whether he's truly savvy. There's definitely a difference between smart and savvy. When it comes to negotiations, it's mainly about savvy.

But I'll come back to your central point. The key threshold question is how much Gupta values DLO and if he shares Gersson's apparent perspective that the value of Simmons to the Wolves is tied significantly to having DLO on the roster. I'm guessing Gupta doesn't see it that way, but that's just a guess. Of course, the next biggest question is how much Morey values DLO relative to other alternatives. In my mind it's DLO v. VanVleet, Sexton, McCollum, Haliburton, DeJounte Murray and Brogdon. I think all those guards will ultimately be put on the table for Simmons if they haven't already. Who does Morey value the most among those guards and by how much? Also, to what extent would Morey value the additional assets included in the packages built around those guards. I think Philly will ultimately have the following alternative packages on the table:

1. DLO + Beasley + future picks
2. Sexton + Love + future picks
3. VanVleet + Anuoby + future picks
4. Haliburton + Hield + future picks
5. McCollum + Covington + future picks
6. Dejounte Murray + Devin Vassell + future picks
7. Brogdon + TJ Warren + future picks

Obviously the DLO/Beasley pairing would require additional incoming players to match salaries. And there would have to be some additional players included one way or the other in some of the other deals. But the basic core outgoing packages for Simmons will, I think, be the ones I've listed above. Of course, I'll probably be completely wrong. :). In any event, if I were Morey and it came down to my list of seven, I'd probably opt for the VanVleet/Anunoby package as my first choice. I'd view that deal as my best chance to win now with a top-notch lead guard and a young talented SF in Anunoby. Based on a win-now objective, the Sexton/Love package would be my second choice because I think Sexton is the best scorer among the lead guards and Love can still contribute as a rebounder and shooter at the PF position. Sexton has the added value of having substantial upside. My third choice would be the DLO/Beasley package, but I'd be tempted by the Brogdon/Warren package.

Not sure if this means anything or not, but I have inside knowledge that CJ McCollum has temporarily put his plans for a new house in the area on hold. He's waiting to see if he would be included in a deal to Philly.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Not sure if this means anything or not, but I have inside knowledge that CJ McCollum has temporarily put his plans for a new house in the area on hold. He's waiting to see if he would be included in a deal to Philly.

Thanks Cool for that tidbit. I think Ben Simmons to Portland for McCollum, Covington and picks makes sense for both teams. Simmons, plus Shake Milton and Isaiah Joe for McCollum and Cov works salarywise.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:The biggest question that none of us can answer with complete confidence is how much does Sachin Gupta value D'Angelo Russell? Is his vision one that rolls out a talented foursome with D-Lo, or does he see D-Lo as a trade chip that can help him land a Ben Simmons? I can't answer that, but we all know what I'm hoping for.

I agree, Cam. I still have doubts about whether the Wolves will end up with Simmons. But if they do, we can be sure the Wolves outgoing package will be build around either DLO or Beasley - possibly both. I agree the biggest question for Wolves fans right now in relation to Simmons is how much Gupta values Russell. I'm going to venture a guess that he values DLO less than Rosas did. Her's my reasoning. First, it seemed clear to me that Rosas absolutely loved DLO. It was apparent in how Rosas was glowing during DLO's introductory press conference and it was also apparent in what Rosas gave up to get him and the fact that Rosas jumped at the deal rather than waiting until the off-season. Second, I suspect that Gupta was among the internal voices referred to by Jon K as opposed to the light protections Rosas agreed to in his deal for DLO. If nothing else, it seemed clear that Rosas considered the DLO acquisition his signature move and I doubt Gupta has the same sense of ownership in or love for that deal, even thought he might like DLO as a player.

So my guess is that Gupta will definitely put DLO in play for Simmons. The question is whether he'll also be willing to include Beasley and, if so, who he'd expect to get back in return to match salaries. If it's just DLO, how many future 1st-round picks will Gupta be willing to give up and with what levels of protection? Will Gupta want to mortgage the organization's long-term future by dealing half of its remaining 1st-round picks this decade? Will the new owners, who are obviously forward looking, be willing to sign off on a deal that gives up a lot of future 1st-round picks before they even become majority owners? Gupta's academic credentials tell us he's very smart. But we can't know yet whether he's truly savvy. There's definitely a difference between smart and savvy. When it comes to negotiations, it's mainly about savvy.

But I'll come back to your central point. The key threshold question is how much Gupta values DLO and if he shares Gersson's apparent perspective that the value of Simmons to the Wolves is tied significantly to having DLO on the roster. I'm guessing Gupta doesn't see it that way, but that's just a guess. Of course, the next biggest question is how much Morey values DLO relative to other alternatives. In my mind it's DLO v. VanVleet; DLO v. Sexton, DLO v. McCollum, DLO v. Haliburton, DLO v. DeJounte Murray. I think all those guards will ultimately be put on the table for Simmons if they haven't already. Who does Morey value the most among those guards and by how much. Also, to what extent would Morey value the additional assets included in the packages built around those guards. I think Philly will ultimately have the following alternative packages on the table:

1. DLO + Beasley + future picks
2. Sexton + Love + future picks
3. VanVleet + Anuoby + future picks
4. Haliburton + Hield + future picks
5. McCollum + Covington + future picks
6. Dejounte Murray + Devin Vassell + future picks

Obviously the DLO/Beasley pairing would require additional incoming players to match salaries. And there would have to be some addition players included one way or the other in some of the other deals. But the basic core outgoing packages for Simmons will, I think, be the ones I've listed above. Of course, I'll probably be completely wrong. :).

It would be interesting to see how this board valued those guards in regards to the fit in Philly. I think Brogdon might still be available from Indiana also or at the very least should be included in that guard list.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:The biggest question that none of us can answer with complete confidence is how much does Sachin Gupta value D'Angelo Russell? Is his vision one that rolls out a talented foursome with D-Lo, or does he see D-Lo as a trade chip that can help him land a Ben Simmons? I can't answer that, but we all know what I'm hoping for.

I agree, Cam. I still have doubts about whether the Wolves will end up with Simmons. But if they do, we can be sure the Wolves outgoing package will be build around either DLO or Beasley - possibly both. I agree the biggest question for Wolves fans right now in relation to Simmons is how much Gupta values Russell. I'm going to venture a guess that he values DLO less than Rosas did. Her's my reasoning. First, it seemed clear to me that Rosas absolutely loved DLO. It was apparent in how Rosas was glowing during DLO's introductory press conference and it was also apparent in what Rosas gave up to get him and the fact that Rosas jumped at the deal rather than waiting until the off-season. Second, I suspect that Gupta was among the internal voices referred to by Jon K as opposed to the light protections Rosas agreed to in his deal for DLO. If nothing else, it seemed clear that Rosas considered the DLO acquisition his signature move and I doubt Gupta has the same sense of ownership in or love for that deal, even thought he might like DLO as a player.

So my guess is that Gupta will definitely put DLO in play for Simmons. The question is whether he'll also be willing to include Beasley and, if so, who he'd expect to get back in return to match salaries. If it's just DLO, how many future 1st-round picks will Gupta be willing to give up and with what levels of protection? Will Gupta want to mortgage the organization's long-term future by dealing half of its remaining 1st-round picks this decade? Will the new owners, who are obviously forward looking, be willing to sign off on a deal that gives up a lot of future 1st-round picks before they even become majority owners? Gupta's academic credentials tell us he's very smart. But we can't know yet whether he's truly savvy. There's definitely a difference between smart and savvy. When it comes to negotiations, it's mainly about savvy.

But I'll come back to your central point. The key threshold question is how much Gupta values DLO and if he shares Gersson's apparent perspective that the value of Simmons to the Wolves is tied significantly to having DLO on the roster. I'm guessing Gupta doesn't see it that way, but that's just a guess. Of course, the next biggest question is how much Morey values DLO relative to other alternatives. In my mind it's DLO v. VanVleet; DLO v. Sexton, DLO v. McCollum, DLO v. Haliburton, DLO v. DeJounte Murray. I think all those guards will ultimately be put on the table for Simmons if they haven't already. Who does Morey value the most among those guards and by how much. Also, to what extent would Morey value the additional assets included in the packages built around those guards. I think Philly will ultimately have the following alternative packages on the table:

1. DLO + Beasley + future picks
2. Sexton + Love + future picks
3. VanVleet + Anuoby + future picks
4. Haliburton + Hield + future picks
5. McCollum + Covington + future picks
6. Dejounte Murray + Devin Vassell + future picks

Obviously the DLO/Beasley pairing would require additional incoming players to match salaries. And there would have to be some addition players included one way or the other in some of the other deals. But the basic core outgoing packages for Simmons will, I think, be the ones I've listed above. Of course, I'll probably be completely wrong. :).

It would be interesting to see how this board valued those guards in regards to the fit in Philly. I think Brogdon might still be available from Indiana also or at the very least should be included in that guard list.

I forgot about Brogdon, Monster. How about Brogdon + TJ Warren + picks?

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:The biggest question that none of us can answer with complete confidence is how much does Sachin Gupta value D'Angelo Russell? Is his vision one that rolls out a talented foursome with D-Lo, or does he see D-Lo as a trade chip that can help him land a Ben Simmons? I can't answer that, but we all know what I'm hoping for.

I agree, Cam. I still have doubts about whether the Wolves will end up with Simmons. But if they do, we can be sure the Wolves outgoing package will be build around either DLO or Beasley - possibly both. I agree the biggest question for Wolves fans right now in relation to Simmons is how much Gupta values Russell. I'm going to venture a guess that he values DLO less than Rosas did. Her's my reasoning. First, it seemed clear to me that Rosas absolutely loved DLO. It was apparent in how Rosas was glowing during DLO's introductory press conference and it was also apparent in what Rosas gave up to get him and the fact that Rosas jumped at the deal rather than waiting until the off-season. Second, I suspect that Gupta was among the internal voices referred to by Jon K as opposed to the light protections Rosas agreed to in his deal for DLO. If nothing else, it seemed clear that Rosas considered the DLO acquisition his signature move and I doubt Gupta has the same sense of ownership in or love for that deal, even thought he might like DLO as a player.

So my guess is that Gupta will definitely put DLO in play for Simmons. The question is whether he'll also be willing to include Beasley and, if so, who he'd expect to get back in return to match salaries. If it's just DLO, how many future 1st-round picks will Gupta be willing to give up and with what levels of protection? Will Gupta want to mortgage the organization's long-term future by dealing half of its remaining 1st-round picks this decade? Will the new owners, who are obviously forward looking, be willing to sign off on a deal that gives up a lot of future 1st-round picks before they even become majority owners? Gupta's academic credentials tell us he's very smart. But we can't know yet whether he's truly savvy. There's definitely a difference between smart and savvy. When it comes to negotiations, it's mainly about savvy.

But I'll come back to your central point. The key threshold question is how much Gupta values DLO and if he shares Gersson's apparent perspective that the value of Simmons to the Wolves is tied significantly to having DLO on the roster. I'm guessing Gupta doesn't see it that way, but that's just a guess. Of course, the next biggest question is how much Morey values DLO relative to other alternatives. In my mind it's DLO v. VanVleet; DLO v. Sexton, DLO v. McCollum, DLO v. Haliburton, DLO v. DeJounte Murray. I think all those guards will ultimately be put on the table for Simmons if they haven't already. Who does Morey value the most among those guards and by how much. Also, to what extent would Morey value the additional assets included in the packages built around those guards. I think Philly will ultimately have the following alternative packages on the table:

1. DLO + Beasley + future picks
2. Sexton + Love + future picks
3. VanVleet + Anuoby + future picks
4. Haliburton + Hield + future picks
5. McCollum + Covington + future picks
6. Dejounte Murray + Devin Vassell + future picks

Obviously the DLO/Beasley pairing would require additional incoming players to match salaries. And there would have to be some addition players included one way or the other in some of the other deals. But the basic core outgoing packages for Simmons will, I think, be the ones I've listed above. Of course, I'll probably be completely wrong. :).

It would be interesting to see how this board valued those guards in regards to the fit in Philly. I think Brogdon might still be available from Indiana also or at the very least should be included in that guard list.

I forgot about Brogdon, Monster. How about Brogdon + TJ Warren + picks?

Unfortunately Warren hasn't gotten healthy yet from that stress fracture in his foot. IF Warren was actually healthy I think him and Brogdon would be a pretty good return for Simons at this point for a team wanting to win now.