Shams just reported the Hornets are discussing a Lamelo trade with multiple teams

[Crazysauce]

Let's put some optimism into this thread. Ball is very young. Last year he improved from a catastrophic level defender to a below average/serviceable defender. He now gets Gobert and McDaniels and hopefully a more rested more willing Ant hopefully. It's not unreasonable to think that he will improve still. The kid is only 24. Also end of last year with Ball on the court the team defensive rating improved from 117.4 to 111.1 with him on the court. He will help our offense a lot. Will definitely be interesting

[Crazysauce]

https://youtu.be/ruZwqbWNi14?is=nMQz_kGAfi_OCDEr

Oh and there is this.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

There are definitely reasons to be optimistic, especially if we can get a PF and LaMelo stays healthy.

At the same time, every team has a collective personality, and I'm less excited about the personality of this team than I was just before this trade.

After the Brooklyn trade, with Randle out and Naz elevated, I was feeling better about the personality of the team. Naz has been a little whiny, but his authentic awkwardness and sense of humor, his very relatable emotional range, made it easy to cheer for the guy. I was also imagining adding a guy like Jrue Holiday, a hard working, serious, careful, thoughtful, defense-oriented guy who everybody respected.

And then we traded Naz for LaMelo . . . and when it comes to the personality of the team I was expecting/hoping for . . . I'm having this gut feeling like I thought I was cutting into a perfectly ripe avocado and now I'm worried it might be rotten.

[Monster]

There are definitely reasons to be optimistic, especially if we can get a PF and LaMelo stays healthy.

At the same time, every team has a collective personality, and I'm less excited about the personality of this team than I was just before this trade.

After the Brooklyn trade, with Randle out and Naz elevated, I was feeling better about the personality of the team. Naz has been a little whiny, but his authentic awkwardness and sense of humor, his very relatable emotional range, made it easy to cheer for the guy. I was also imagining adding a guy like Jrue Holiday, a hard working, serious, careful, thoughtful, defense-oriented guy who everybody respected.

And then we traded Naz for LaMelo . . . and when it comes to the personality of the team I was expecting/hoping for . . . I'm having this gut feeling like I thought I was cutting into a perfectly ripe avocado and now I'm worried it might be rotten.

What I've kinda gathered from afar is LaMelo is just kind of a goofy guy. He isn't a problem just kinda goofy. So is Edwards. Luka is a little goofy Jokic is a little goofy too.

I'm not a fan of Lavar ball. Still his oldest son would be one of the most sought after players in the league other than stars of he could stay healthy and a lot of that is his all around game and doing various things a winning player would do. From what I see Lamelo just plays so carefree and easy. I'm interested to learn more about him. I'm trying to keep an open mind. There are reasons to question him as a person or player etc.

[Crazysauce]

Reading the Hornets message board it's very apparent they do not like the trade. Really this trade is just a bet on his health. If healthy he is an amazing player. Better then I think even we realize. This team will be a lot of fun. I see Ball and Ant feeding off one another. Need to get some more bigs. I am pretty excited to see Ant play with a good point guard. Let's just hope he stays healthy.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Strategically, these guys make an interesting argument that LaMelo should play a decent amount off the ball with Ant initiating, since LaMelo is apparently most effective not so much as the initial passer in the halfcourt, but as the middle guy who basically receives the pass from the initiator, then makes the right pass that leads to the shot.

27:25 to 36:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZCFYM1gK90&t=2252s

I haven't seen enough of his games to say whether or not that's the case, but I've seen enough to know he works well improvising passes when guys are already moving on the floor. I still see him initiating the offense quite a bit (which would offer Finch an opportunity to rethink how to get Ant involved off the ball more, which is good), but it's also good to hear LaMelo can work off the ball as well, since it offers Finch more flexibility in terms of the offensive plays they run.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

There are definitely reasons to be optimistic, especially if we can get a PF and LaMelo stays healthy.

At the same time, every team has a collective personality, and I'm less excited about the personality of this team than I was just before this trade.

After the Brooklyn trade, with Randle out and Naz elevated, I was feeling better about the personality of the team. Naz has been a little whiny, but his authentic awkwardness and sense of humor, his very relatable emotional range, made it easy to cheer for the guy. I was also imagining adding a guy like Jrue Holiday, a hard working, serious, careful, thoughtful, defense-oriented guy who everybody respected.

And then we traded Naz for LaMelo . . . and when it comes to the personality of the team I was expecting/hoping for . . . I'm having this gut feeling like I thought I was cutting into a perfectly ripe avocado and now I'm worried it might be rotten.

What I've kinda gathered from afar is LaMelo is just kind of a goofy guy. He isn't a problem just kinda goofy. So is Edwards. Luka is a little goofy Jokic is a little goofy too.

I'm not a fan of Lavar ball. Still his oldest son would be one of the most sought after players in the league other than stars of he could stay healthy and a lot of that is his all around game and doing various things a winning player would do. From what I see Lamelo just plays so carefree and easy. I'm interested to learn more about him. I'm trying to keep an open mind. There are reasons to question him as a person or player etc.

He plays like he's having fun, and I think that is incredibly valuable. It's infectious, especially because it comes through in his passing and often leads to other guys getting to finish cool-looking plays. That's also going to get fans on their feet, and that's also valuable.

There was basically no joy on this team last year, both on and off the floor, except when Bones and Ayo were getting out in transition, or in that Denver series when we were shutting them down defensively. Getting rid of Randle generally should lift that cloud, and adding LaMelo will help even more, especially on the floor, and this will help keep us fresh through the regular season instead of being bored and waiting for the playoffs.

But while joy is one of the two most important qualities in a player's playing style, IMO, the other is relentless, dogged determination. You have to be an intense competitor. And that's where I think we'll need to see growth in LaMelo's personality if this is going to work. He looks like it's all about the fun, and that's it. To me, the ideal player plays with joy while also trying to rip the throat out of their competitor. That might seem like a contradiction, but I don't think it is. You have to be able to kind of step outside yourself, recognize how lucky you are to be able to do what you're doing and enjoy every moment with real joy, but also completely buy in to the role you have as a competitor which means you give it 100%. I think Ant comes pretty close to hitting a good balance with this with his shit-talking and comments about how he wants to kill anybody in his way, but unlike KG--who completely lost himself in his tough guy act--or Jimmy--who never really seemed to let himself experience joy--Ant seems to deliver these sorts of competitive actions with a smile, like he's authentically enjoying it and doesn't really hate anyone while still competing at a high level. Donte's another example of a guy whose personality blends joy and determination well.

So while I am excited for LaMelo to bring some joy to the rest of the players with the way that he plays, I also hope that Ant also sets an example that LaMelo follows--to keep that fun but still buy in to the serious mission of doing whatever possible to win every possession, every quarter, every game. I am worried about LaMelo's character, but I can theoretically see a path by which he matures under Ant's influence. I'll be watching every game hoping to see that happen. Joy and determination. I want to see both.

[Lipoli390]

There are definitely reasons to be optimistic, especially if we can get a PF and LaMelo stays healthy.

At the same time, every team has a collective personality, and I'm less excited about the personality of this team than I was just before this trade.

After the Brooklyn trade, with Randle out and Naz elevated, I was feeling better about the personality of the team. Naz has been a little whiny, but his authentic awkwardness and sense of humor, his very relatable emotional range, made it easy to cheer for the guy. I was also imagining adding a guy like Jrue Holiday, a hard working, serious, careful, thoughtful, defense-oriented guy who everybody respected.

And then we traded Naz for LaMelo . . . and when it comes to the personality of the team I was expecting/hoping for . . . I'm having this gut feeling like I thought I was cutting into a perfectly ripe avocado and now I'm worried it might be rotten.

What I've kinda gathered from afar is LaMelo is just kind of a goofy guy. He isn't a problem just kinda goofy. So is Edwards. Luka is a little goofy Jokic is a little goofy too.

I'm not a fan of Lavar ball. Still his oldest son would be one of the most sought after players in the league other than stars of he could stay healthy and a lot of that is his all around game and doing various things a winning player would do. From what I see Lamelo just plays so carefree and easy. I'm interested to learn more about him. I'm trying to keep an open mind. There are reasons to question him as a person or player etc.

He plays like he's having fun, and I think that is incredibly valuable. It's infectious, especially because it comes through in his passing and often leads to other guys getting to finish cool-looking plays. That's also going to get fans on their feet, and that's also valuable.

There was basically no joy on this team last year, both on and off the floor, except when Bones and Ayo were getting out in transition, or in that Denver series when we were shutting them down defensively. Getting rid of Randle generally should lift that cloud, and adding LaMelo will help even more, especially on the floor, and this will help keep us fresh through the regular season instead of being bored and waiting for the playoffs.

But while joy is one of the two most important qualities in a player's playing style, IMO, the other is relentless, dogged determination. You have to be an intense competitor. And that's where I think we'll need to see growth in LaMelo's personality if this is going to work. He looks like it's all about the fun, and that's it. To me, the ideal player plays with joy while also trying to rip the throat out of their competitor. That might seem like a contradiction, but I don't think it is. You have to be able to kind of step outside yourself, recognize how lucky you are to be able to do what you're doing and enjoy every moment with real joy, but also completely buy in to the role you have as a competitor which means you give it 100%. I think Ant comes pretty close to hitting a good balance with this with his shit-talking and comments about how he wants to kill anybody in his way, but unlike KG--who completely lost himself in his tough guy act--or Jimmy--who never really seemed to let himself experience joy--Ant seems to deliver these sorts of competitive actions with a smile, like he's authentically enjoying it and doesn't really hate anyone while still competing at a high level. Donte's another example of a guy whose personality blends joy and determination well.

So while I am excited for LaMelo to bring some joy to the rest of the players with the way that he plays, I also hope that Ant also sets an example that LaMelo follows--to keep that fun but still buy in to the serious mission of doing whatever possible to win every possession, every quarter, every game. I am worried about LaMelo's character, but I can theoretically see a path by which he matures under Ant's influence. I'll be watching every game hoping to see that happen. Joy and determination. I want to see both.

Great analysis, Drew. I agree except that I think Ball has that competitive edge. Researching on line, his teammates consistently say that Melo is highly competitive. Watching highlights I see a guy who isn’t just having fun but who also gets fired up about beating his opponent. Honestly, I don’t think you can have fun playing basketball (or any sport) if you’re not competitive. So I don’t separate the two characteristics quite as much as you do. Having said that, I know the type of player you’re talking about. The best historical example might be the Pistons’ Isiah Thomas back in the day. He used to smile all the team but it was the smile of a snake about to devour his prey. It was joy playing melded with the joy of the kill. It’s what we see in Ant, which you pointed out. I also see some of that in LaMelo. Spend some time pouring over LaMelo highlights and I think you might see the same.

[Phenom]

What I've kinda gathered from afar is LaMelo is just kind of a goofy guy. He isn't a problem just kinda goofy. So is Edwards. Luka is a little goofy Jokic is a little goofy too.

I'm not a fan of Lavar ball. Still his oldest son would be one of the most sought after players in the league other than stars of he could stay healthy and a lot of that is his all around game and doing various things a winning player would do. From what I see Lamelo just plays so carefree and easy. I'm interested to learn more about him. I'm trying to keep an open mind. There are reasons to question him as a person or player etc.

He plays like he's having fun, and I think that is incredibly valuable. It's infectious, especially because it comes through in his passing and often leads to other guys getting to finish cool-looking plays. That's also going to get fans on their feet, and that's also valuable.

There was basically no joy on this team last year, both on and off the floor, except when Bones and Ayo were getting out in transition, or in that Denver series when we were shutting them down defensively. Getting rid of Randle generally should lift that cloud, and adding LaMelo will help even more, especially on the floor, and this will help keep us fresh through the regular season instead of being bored and waiting for the playoffs.

But while joy is one of the two most important qualities in a player's playing style, IMO, the other is relentless, dogged determination. You have to be an intense competitor. And that's where I think we'll need to see growth in LaMelo's personality if this is going to work. He looks like it's all about the fun, and that's it. To me, the ideal player plays with joy while also trying to rip the throat out of their competitor. That might seem like a contradiction, but I don't think it is. You have to be able to kind of step outside yourself, recognize how lucky you are to be able to do what you're doing and enjoy every moment with real joy, but also completely buy in to the role you have as a competitor which means you give it 100%. I think Ant comes pretty close to hitting a good balance with this with his shit-talking and comments about how he wants to kill anybody in his way, but unlike KG--who completely lost himself in his tough guy act--or Jimmy--who never really seemed to let himself experience joy--Ant seems to deliver these sorts of competitive actions with a smile, like he's authentically enjoying it and doesn't really hate anyone while still competing at a high level. Donte's another example of a guy whose personality blends joy and determination well.

So while I am excited for LaMelo to bring some joy to the rest of the players with the way that he plays, I also hope that Ant also sets an example that LaMelo follows--to keep that fun but still buy in to the serious mission of doing whatever possible to win every possession, every quarter, every game. I am worried about LaMelo's character, but I can theoretically see a path by which he matures under Ant's influence. I'll be watching every game hoping to see that happen. Joy and determination. I want to see both.

Great analysis, Drew. I agree except that I think Ball has that competitive edge. Researching on line, his teammates consistently say that Melo is highly competitive. Watching highlights I see a guy who isn’t just having fun but who also gets fired up about beating his opponent. Honestly, I don’t think you can have fun playing basketball (or any sport) if you’re not competitive. So I don’t separate the two characteristics quite as much as you do. Having said that, I know the type of player you’re talking about. The best historical example might be the Pistons’ Isiah Thomas back in the day. He used to smile all the team but it was the smile of a snake about to devour his prey. It was joy playing melded with the joy of the kill. It’s what we see in Ant, which you pointed out. I also see some of that in LaMelo. Spend some time pouring over LaMelo highlights and I think you might see the same.

I listened to the locked in crossover with Ben Beecken and the 2 Hornets guys. They specifically highlighted LaMelo's competitiveness and drive to excel at basketball. After doing so they even joked that they decided to cancel the trade.

[Phenom]

Strategically, these guys make an interesting argument that LaMelo should play a decent amount off the ball with Ant initiating, since LaMelo is apparently most effective not so much as the initial passer in the halfcourt, but as the middle guy who basically receives the pass from the initiator, then makes the right pass that leads to the shot.

27:25 to 36:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZCFYM1gK90&t=2252s

I haven't seen enough of his games to say whether or not that's the case, but I've seen enough to know he works well improvising passes when guys are already moving on the floor. I still see him initiating the offense quite a bit (which would offer Finch an opportunity to rethink how to get Ant involved off the ball more, which is good), but it's also good to hear LaMelo can work off the ball as well, since it offers Finch more flexibility in terms of the offensive plays they run.

On the locked on crossover pod the Hornets guys also brought up how Melo excels off the ball so it sounds like a real thing.