Next Moves for the Wolves

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Monster
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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves

Post by Monster »

thedoper wrote:For all the professional talk etc, Rosas is not looking that great so far in terms of his acquisitions. I hope his desire to put his stamp on this team doesn't end up making us even worse. So far he doesn't look like a great judge of talent. I know he will have at least two years to see his vision through but none of his acquisitions have yielded any fruit.


It was only 14 games before he got hurt but I think for the only guy they gave a multi year deal to Jake Layman yielded some fruit. Naz Reid and Nowell at least look promising. Bargain bin hunting isn't always going to bring awesome players. Culver hasn't set the world on fire and that's worth skepticism about Rosas but plenty of other rookies have been pretty meh too this year.
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thedoper
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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves

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monsterpile wrote:
thedoper wrote:For all the professional talk etc, Rosas is not looking that great so far in terms of his acquisitions. I hope his desire to put his stamp on this team doesn't end up making us even worse. So far he doesn't look like a great judge of talent. I know he will have at least two years to see his vision through but none of his acquisitions have yielded any fruit.


It was only 14 games before he got hurt but I think for the only guy they gave a multi year deal to Jake Layman yielded some fruit. Naz Reid and Nowell at least look promising. Bargain bin hunting isn't always going to bring awesome players. Culver hasn't set the world on fire and that's worth skepticism about Rosas but plenty of other rookies have been pretty meh too this year.


It's a way too early overreaction. Healthy Layman looks like an NBA player. As the games are piling on Graham, Napier, Vonleh and Bell have been negative assets. All the kids are a question mark. I guess this is why we don't give in season grades but the assets look shaky at best.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

monsterpile wrote:Bargain bin hunting isn't always going to bring awesome players.


In reality, bargain bin hunting rarely brings in awesome players. Usually, there are legitimate reasons as to why they are that available in the first place. In my opinion, the best way to uncover a hidden gem out of these particular players is to focus on those that have at least one legitimate NBA skill -- something within their game that stands out as a quality attribute. It can be shooting. It can be rebounding. It can be facilitating. It can be defense. Whatever it is, it has to be good enough to mask some of the holes in the rest of their games.

If we look at the free agents that Gersson Rosas brought in this summer, does that fit any of them? Jake Layman is the only addition that resembles a quality rotation player and I'm not sure he actually does any one thing well -- he just has decent size for position and a high basketball IQ. Shabazz Napier has been an all-around flop. Treveon Graham provides decent effort, but not enough tangible production from it that covers his weaknesses. So, he's been a flop. Noah Vonleh has shown some defensive/rebounding chops, but his weaknesses offensively and perhaps attitude-wise have made him a flop. Jordan Bell seems like a guy that loves the NBA lifestyle over the NBA grind. You can't rely on him for much of anything on the court. So, another flop.

If signing Layman is Rosas' best move to date -- and make no mistake about it that he is -- then he really hasn't done anything to improve this team.

The vision of playing one guard, three wings, and one big is also misguided and costing this team wins, but that discussion is perhaps better for another time.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

The Vonleh signing was the one thing Rosas did this summer that I was moderately intrigued by. I felt he could be a solid dirty-work big that could start next to KAT and play around 20 MPG, with us going smaller as most teams do at the end of halves.

Instead, he came off the bench as a pure back up C, but performed admirably. He defended in a way we're not used to seeing from the jumpy/floppy/sideways Dieng and KAT. But then suddenly.....poof! he's no where to be found.

He didn't play enough minutes for his absence to totally explain our defensive implosion since the nice start, but I think he was part of the solution early on.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

Dane Moore:

These are the mechanics to a Wolves-Warriors deal that would come w/ the added benefit of GSW's trade exception increasing in size from $17.2M to $21.5M:

- Dieng ($16.2M) into Iggy Trade Exception ($17.2M)
- Culver ($5.8M) for Russell ($27.3M)
- Result: $21.5M trade exception

https://zonecoverage.com/2019/timberwolves/its-time-for-another-dangelo-russell-to-the-minnesota-timberwolves-conversation/
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Monster
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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves

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Q12543 wrote:The Vonleh signing was the one thing Rosas did this summer that I was moderately intrigued by. I felt he could be a solid dirty-work big that could start next to KAT and play around 20 MPG, with us going smaller as most teams do at the end of halves.

Instead, he came off the bench as a pure back up C, but performed admirably. He defended in a way we're not used to seeing from the jumpy/floppy/sideways Dieng and KAT. But then suddenly.....poof! he's no where to be found.

He didn't play enough minutes for his absence to totally explain our defensive implosion since the nice start, but I think he was part of the solution early on.


Vonleh had a couple meh games and then Dieng played pretty well and is still averaging almost a combined 5 blocks and steals per 36 mins which doesn't mean his defense is good but that's production and activity. He also brings something as a guy that can make some shots. More interestingly Bell is getting worked in which makes some sense because he is more of a guy that has the athletic ability of a PF than Dieng Or Vonleh. Bell's rebounding is up as well as his 2 point FG percentage. I still don't think we have seen the last of Vonleh.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

monsterpile wrote:
Q12543 wrote:The Vonleh signing was the one thing Rosas did this summer that I was moderately intrigued by. I felt he could be a solid dirty-work big that could start next to KAT and play around 20 MPG, with us going smaller as most teams do at the end of halves.

Instead, he came off the bench as a pure back up C, but performed admirably. He defended in a way we're not used to seeing from the jumpy/floppy/sideways Dieng and KAT. But then suddenly.....poof! he's no where to be found.

He didn't play enough minutes for his absence to totally explain our defensive implosion since the nice start, but I think he was part of the solution early on.


Vonleh had a couple meh games and then Dieng played pretty well and is still averaging almost a combined 5 blocks and steals per 36 mins which doesn't mean his defense is good but that's production and activity. He also brings something as a guy that can make some shots. More interestingly Bell is getting worked in which makes some sense because he is more of a guy that has the athletic ability of a PF than Dieng Or Vonleh. Bell's rebounding is up as well as his 2 point FG percentage. I still don't think we have seen the last of Vonleh.


Yeah, Dieng is doing some great box score stuff, but his Net Rating is pretty bad. Not sure it would make a huge difference either way, but just surprised we have seen absolutely nothing from him, especially in the midst of a massive losing streak where the biggest culprit is our defense. The KAT/Dieng/Bell rotation isn't stopping people, that's for sure.
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Wolvesfan21
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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves

Post by Wolvesfan21 »

I remember Vonleh taking a contested corner three, he tried to fake the guy out like he was Kobe then shot it with a hand in his face, I think that was the last I saw him play. lol

Dieng got in a did well initially and it's been it pretty much.
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thedoper
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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves

Post by thedoper »

Camden0916 wrote:Dane Moore:

These are the mechanics to a Wolves-Warriors deal that would come w/ the added benefit of GSW's trade exception increasing in size from $17.2M to $21.5M:

- Dieng ($16.2M) into Iggy Trade Exception ($17.2M)
- Culver ($5.8M) for Russell ($27.3M)
- Result: $21.5M trade exception

https://zonecoverage.com/2019/timberwolves/its-time-for-another-dangelo-russell-to-the-minnesota-timberwolves-conversation/


Hollinger and Duncan discussed the same idea on their podcast, but said ultimately unlikely because it's difficult to find the motivation for letting DLO go without seeing how he fits with their lineup. 21 million plus Culver & Dieng doesn't likely get you better total talent than DLo as I see it. Ultimately I think the DLo to Minnesota ship has pretty well sailed for now, until it is clear that he doesnt fit with their team. I just don't see the Warriors making that decision just to save money or for a shot at random 21 million dollar player.
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worldK
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Re: Next Moves for the Wolves

Post by worldK »

Roco and teague for garry harris and grant.

You dont usually trade within the division but this deal makes sense to both teams. Roco could play both harris and grants role on the team. Allows barton to play his more natural sg postion.

Grant is a good pf to pair with towns. Garry harris has not played well to start the season. But he is still a good defender who can defend both guard spots. His offensive game is based on 3's, cuts and transition baskets which is what our system is based on.

Not a flashy trade but those two are solid guys and better fit than what teague and pf cov.
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