Minnesota Sports Forum

I think Abe nailed the PatBev and DLo/Lowry discussions.

I'm a solid no on PatBev. I enjoyed him last year, but frankly his immaturity wore on me as the season progressed. And combine that with some of the worst stats in the Association this year, and I have no interest.

I won't try to say that Kyle Lowry is the same player he was 5-10 years ago, but that's not the relevant comparison. The real question is... is he better than and a better fit than Russell, and I think the answer is a clear yes. Maybe his defense isn't what it was in the past, but look at the numbers (or watch him live)...he's miles ahead of Russell on the defensive end. I also like that he takes fewer shots per game than DLo...we need a PG who gets our more efficient scorers involved. So yes, Lowry clearly would make us a better team.

The issue of whether the Heat would want DLo is more complex, but I can see why they would...they need more scoring, and DLo provides more scoring than Lowry. The Heat rank third in points allowed, but dead last in points scored. The instant offense DLo can provide when he is hot might be appreciated in Miami.

D'Angelo Russell (2022-23)
Age: 26
GP: 35
PPG: 17.0
APG: 6.5
AST%: 28.3
TOV%: 15.9
RPG: 3.2
SPG: 1.1
2P%: 56.3
3P%: 34.9
FT%: 84.2
TS%: .579
USG%: 22.6

EPM: +1.1
RPM: +2.48
BPM: +0.3
RAPTOR: -0.6
WAR: 1.3
VORP: 0.7

Kyle Lowry (2022-23)
Age: 36
GP: 33
PPG: 13.5
APG: 5.8
AST%: 23.7
TOV%: 15.7
RPG: 4.5
SPG: 1.1
2P%: 49.2
3P%: 35.3
FT%: 85.6
TS%: .569
USG%: 17.6

EPM: +1.3
RPM: +2.36
BPM: +0.5
RAPTOR: +0.6
WAR: 2.0
VORP: 0.7

Frankly, there's nothing "clear" about it with regard to which point guard has played better through their 30-ish games this season. Their different styles make them more/less favorable depending on the preference of the individual.

However, one of these two turns 37-years old in March. Not only does that fact make the rest of this season questionable in terms of how he'll hold up -- both in terms of durability and effectiveness -- but he also has $30-million guaranteed for next season where he'll only be older. That is not a gamble that should be made by any responsible front office. Even the "I Hate D-Lo" club needs to recognize that.

Camden wrote:D'Angelo Russell (2022-23)
Age: 26
GP: 35
PPG: 17.0
APG: 6.5
AST%: 28.3
TOV%: 15.9
RPG: 3.2
SPG: 1.1
2P%: 56.3
3P%: 34.9
FT%: 84.2
TS%: .579
USG%: 22.6

EPM: +1.1
RPM: +2.48
BPM: +0.3
RAPTOR: -0.6
WAR: 1.3
VORP: 0.7

Kyle Lowry (2022-23)
Age: 36
GP: 33
PPG: 13.5
APG: 5.8
AST%: 23.7
TOV%: 15.7
RPG: 4.5
SPG: 1.1
2P%: 49.2
3P%: 35.3
FT%: 85.6
TS%: .569
USG%: 17.6

EPM: +1.3
RPM: +2.36
BPM: +0.5
RAPTOR: +0.6
WAR: 2.0
VORP: 0.7

Frankly, there's nothing "clear" about it with regard to which point guard has played better through their 30-ish games this season. Their different styles make them more/less favorable depending on the preference of the individual.

However, one of these two turns 37-years old in March. Not only does that fact make the rest of this season questionable in terms of how he'll hold up -- both in terms of durability and effectiveness -- but he also has $30-million guaranteed for next season where he'll only be older. That is not a gamble that should be made by any responsible front office. Even the "I Hate D-Lo" club needs to recognize that.

Maybe. BUT...

As we've discussed, the Wolves are sorta stuck if they just let Russell walk after this season. Who could they reasonably expect to bring in to replace him? As you've said, there just aren't many options out there. So the Wolves would have to pony up for Russell. I contend he's not going to accept much of a paycut. You say he'll get about $26M... and that would be for multiple seasons. Do the Wolves want to pay him $100M+ moving forward? I can see them walking away from that situation.*

Back to Lowry, many might believe he's played better than Russell this season AND that he's a better fit with the Wolves. So for the Wolves... they'd get to get out of the "stuck with Russell" box they're in and they're able to kick the can down the road for one more season. Plus, they might get some of the leadership many miss from Beverly, without the "look at me, I'm a clown" sideshow that comes with it.


* I rarely listen to radio anymore, but I caught Jonny K on the Barreiro show yesterday. Obviously, he's connected to the Timberwolves more than any of us. And he sure seemed to be hinting that Russell was not in a great place with the organization.


And if Lowry stays at the level he's playing at now (or even a slight regression)... it can make sense for them.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Maybe. BUT...

As we've discussed, the Wolves are sorta stuck if they just let Russell walk after this season. Who could they reasonably expect to bring in to replace him? As you've said, there just aren't many options out there. So the Wolves would have to pony up for Russell. I contend he's not going to accept much of a paycut. You say he'll get about $26M... and that would be for multiple seasons. Do the Wolves want to pay him $100M+ moving forward? I can see them walking away from that situation.*

Back to Lowry, many might believe he's played better than Russell this season AND that he's a better fit with the Wolves. So for the Wolves... they'd get to get out of the "stuck with Russell" box they're in and they're able to kick the can down the road for one more season. Plus, they might get some of the leadership many miss from Beverly, without the "look at me, I'm a clown" sideshow that comes with it.


* I rarely listen to radio anymore, but I caught Jonny K on the Barreiro show yesterday. Obviously, he's connected to the Timberwolves more than any of us. And he sure seemed to be hinting that Russell was not in a great place with the organization.


And if Lowry stays at the level he's playing at now (or even a slight regression)... it can make sense for them.

Extending or re-signing D'Angelo Russell doesn't necessarily mean they'd be keeping him the entirety of the contract length, which has been articulated multiple times over the past year or so. However, it does provide security in the form of a known asset as well as preserving that cap slot for the future.

Russell might very well be on the way out, but this front office should be smarter than trading him for a near 37-year old Kyle Lowry. They would be better off trading him for multiple parts instead -- mid-level players that don't have the likelihood of depreciating further with every day/week/month/year that they approach 40.

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Maybe. BUT...

As we've discussed, the Wolves are sorta stuck if they just let Russell walk after this season. Who could they reasonably expect to bring in to replace him? As you've said, there just aren't many options out there. So the Wolves would have to pony up for Russell. I contend he's not going to accept much of a paycut. You say he'll get about $26M... and that would be for multiple seasons. Do the Wolves want to pay him $100M+ moving forward? I can see them walking away from that situation.*

Back to Lowry, many might believe he's played better than Russell this season AND that he's a better fit with the Wolves. So for the Wolves... they'd get to get out of the "stuck with Russell" box they're in and they're able to kick the can down the road for one more season. Plus, they might get some of the leadership many miss from Beverly, without the "look at me, I'm a clown" sideshow that comes with it.


* I rarely listen to radio anymore, but I caught Jonny K on the Barreiro show yesterday. Obviously, he's connected to the Timberwolves more than any of us. And he sure seemed to be hinting that Russell was not in a great place with the organization.


And if Lowry stays at the level he's playing at now (or even a slight regression)... it can make sense for them.

Extending or re-signing D'Angelo Russell doesn't necessarily mean they'd be keeping him the entirety of the contract length, which has been articulated multiple times over the past year or so. However, it does provide security in the form of a known asset as well as preserving that cap slot for the future.

Russell might very well be on the way out, but this front office should be smarter than trading him for a near 37-year old Kyle Lowry. They would be better off trading him for multiple parts instead -- mid-level players that don't have the likelihood of depreciating further with every day/week/month/year that they approach 40.

The Wolves only have to hope for 3 months this season... and probably 6 months next season from Lowry, unless they can unload him as an expiring to a team that thinks he can help them for one season. Either way, they don't need to worry about him beyond age 37.

As for trading Russell... sure. Always an option, but if they sign him to a $100M+ deal... and it doesn't work out enough that they're looking to trade him... what will the market look like? The question of how much of an asset Russell is at $100+M is a legit question. Again, he's a polarizing player who most think is already overpaid at even one season around $30M.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Maybe. BUT...

As we've discussed, the Wolves are sorta stuck if they just let Russell walk after this season. Who could they reasonably expect to bring in to replace him? As you've said, there just aren't many options out there. So the Wolves would have to pony up for Russell. I contend he's not going to accept much of a paycut. You say he'll get about $26M... and that would be for multiple seasons. Do the Wolves want to pay him $100M+ moving forward? I can see them walking away from that situation.*

Back to Lowry, many might believe he's played better than Russell this season AND that he's a better fit with the Wolves. So for the Wolves... they'd get to get out of the "stuck with Russell" box they're in and they're able to kick the can down the road for one more season. Plus, they might get some of the leadership many miss from Beverly, without the "look at me, I'm a clown" sideshow that comes with it.


* I rarely listen to radio anymore, but I caught Jonny K on the Barreiro show yesterday. Obviously, he's connected to the Timberwolves more than any of us. And he sure seemed to be hinting that Russell was not in a great place with the organization.


And if Lowry stays at the level he's playing at now (or even a slight regression)... it can make sense for them.

Extending or re-signing D'Angelo Russell doesn't necessarily mean they'd be keeping him the entirety of the contract length, which has been articulated multiple times over the past year or so. However, it does provide security in the form of a known asset as well as preserving that cap slot for the future.

Russell might very well be on the way out, but this front office should be smarter than trading him for a near 37-year old Kyle Lowry. They would be better off trading him for multiple parts instead -- mid-level players that don't have the likelihood of depreciating further with every day/week/month/year that they approach 40.

The Wolves only have to hope for 3 months this season... and probably 6 months next season from Lowry, unless they can unload him as an expiring to a team that thinks he can help them for one season. Either way, they don't need to worry about him beyond age 37.

As for trading Russell... sure. Always an option, but if they sign him to a $100M+ deal... and it doesn't work out enough that they're looking to trade him... what will the market look like? The question of how much of an asset Russell is at $100+M is a legit question. Again, he's a polarizing player who most think is already overpaid at even one season around $30M.

I wouldn't personally be happy with a 100 million dollar deal for Russell, if they go that route hopefully there is a non guaranteed team option on the final 2 years, and preferably a declining salary where it starts higher and declines as it goes on. If part of the contract isn't guaranteed, I believe his trade value would be quite a bit higher than having a long term guaranteed contract.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Maybe. BUT...

As we've discussed, the Wolves are sorta stuck if they just let Russell walk after this season. Who could they reasonably expect to bring in to replace him? As you've said, there just aren't many options out there. So the Wolves would have to pony up for Russell. I contend he's not going to accept much of a paycut. You say he'll get about $26M... and that would be for multiple seasons. Do the Wolves want to pay him $100M+ moving forward? I can see them walking away from that situation.*

Back to Lowry, many might believe he's played better than Russell this season AND that he's a better fit with the Wolves. So for the Wolves... they'd get to get out of the "stuck with Russell" box they're in and they're able to kick the can down the road for one more season. Plus, they might get some of the leadership many miss from Beverly, without the "look at me, I'm a clown" sideshow that comes with it.


* I rarely listen to radio anymore, but I caught Jonny K on the Barreiro show yesterday. Obviously, he's connected to the Timberwolves more than any of us. And he sure seemed to be hinting that Russell was not in a great place with the organization.


And if Lowry stays at the level he's playing at now (or even a slight regression)... it can make sense for them.

Extending or re-signing D'Angelo Russell doesn't necessarily mean they'd be keeping him the entirety of the contract length, which has been articulated multiple times over the past year or so. However, it does provide security in the form of a known asset as well as preserving that cap slot for the future.

Russell might very well be on the way out, but this front office should be smarter than trading him for a near 37-year old Kyle Lowry. They would be better off trading him for multiple parts instead -- mid-level players that don't have the likelihood of depreciating further with every day/week/month/year that they approach 40.

The Wolves only have to hope for 3 months this season... and probably 6 months next season from Lowry, unless they can unload him as an expiring to a team that thinks he can help them for one season. Either way, they don't need to worry about him beyond age 37.

As for trading Russell... sure. Always an option, but if they sign him to a $100M+ deal... and it doesn't work out enough that they're looking to trade him... what will the market look like? The question of how much of an asset Russell is at $100+M is a legit question. Again, he's a polarizing player who most think is already overpaid at even one season around $30M.

Respectfully, I'm not sure you're really understanding just how much of a risk it is to have a 37-year old Kyle Lowry on the payroll making $30-million next season let alone anything beyond that. That's precisely why the Miami Heat would like to move him for value, lateral or better, now before he completely falls off, especially considering the bulk of his current value stems from point-of-attack defense. Losing another half-step there could zap his effectiveness entirely.

And it's no guarantee that his body even holds up for the remainder of this season, but at least that might be a sensible risk if the reward was considered worth it. It's next year that stands to be a big issue, in my opinion.

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Maybe. BUT...

As we've discussed, the Wolves are sorta stuck if they just let Russell walk after this season. Who could they reasonably expect to bring in to replace him? As you've said, there just aren't many options out there. So the Wolves would have to pony up for Russell. I contend he's not going to accept much of a paycut. You say he'll get about $26M... and that would be for multiple seasons. Do the Wolves want to pay him $100M+ moving forward? I can see them walking away from that situation.*

Back to Lowry, many might believe he's played better than Russell this season AND that he's a better fit with the Wolves. So for the Wolves... they'd get to get out of the "stuck with Russell" box they're in and they're able to kick the can down the road for one more season. Plus, they might get some of the leadership many miss from Beverly, without the "look at me, I'm a clown" sideshow that comes with it.


* I rarely listen to radio anymore, but I caught Jonny K on the Barreiro show yesterday. Obviously, he's connected to the Timberwolves more than any of us. And he sure seemed to be hinting that Russell was not in a great place with the organization.


And if Lowry stays at the level he's playing at now (or even a slight regression)... it can make sense for them.

Extending or re-signing D'Angelo Russell doesn't necessarily mean they'd be keeping him the entirety of the contract length, which has been articulated multiple times over the past year or so. However, it does provide security in the form of a known asset as well as preserving that cap slot for the future.

Russell might very well be on the way out, but this front office should be smarter than trading him for a near 37-year old Kyle Lowry. They would be better off trading him for multiple parts instead -- mid-level players that don't have the likelihood of depreciating further with every day/week/month/year that they approach 40.

The Wolves only have to hope for 3 months this season... and probably 6 months next season from Lowry, unless they can unload him as an expiring to a team that thinks he can help them for one season. Either way, they don't need to worry about him beyond age 37.

As for trading Russell... sure. Always an option, but if they sign him to a $100M+ deal... and it doesn't work out enough that they're looking to trade him... what will the market look like? The question of how much of an asset Russell is at $100+M is a legit question. Again, he's a polarizing player who most think is already overpaid at even one season around $30M.

Respectfully, I'm not sure you're really understanding just how much of a risk it is to have a 37-year old Kyle Lowry on the payroll making $30-million next season let alone anything beyond that. That's precisely why the Miami Heat would like to move him for value, lateral or better, now before he completely falls off, especially considering the bulk of his current value stems from point-of-attack defense. Losing another half-step there could zap his effectiveness entirely.

And it's no guarantee that his body even holds up for the remainder of this season, but at least that might be a sensible risk if the reward was considered worth it. It's next year that stands to be a big issue, in my opinion.

To be fair... I'm not advocating for the Lowry trade. But I am offering reasons why it could palatable for the Timberwolves.

The risk of Lowry at one year at $30M over 3 or 4 years of Russell at $100M+ ... or no legit starting PG on the roster is the question here.

I'm sure the front office is gaming all the various scenarios out with DLO. My guess is of the various options available, there is less than a 15% chance it ends up being DLO signed to an extension.

Minnesota Timberwolves: Markelle Fultz, Gary Harris

Orlando Magic: D'Angelo Russell

Verdict: I would be open to this trade, but there is moderate risk involved.

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Minnesota Timberwolves: Monte Morris, Delon Wright, Will Barton (expiring)

Washington Wizards: D'Angelo Russell

Verdict: I would make this trade, assuming the Timberwolves are not going to extend or re-sign Russell.

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Minnesota Timberwolves: D'Angelo Russell

San Antonio Spurs: Doug McDermott, Josh Richardson (expiring)

Verdict: I would NOT make this trade under any circumstances. This trade does not move the needle positively.

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Minnesota Timberwolves: D'Angelo Russell

Dallas Mavericks: Tim Hardaway Jr., Reggie Bullock

Verdict: I would reluctantly make this trade, assuming the Timberwolves are not going to extend or re-sign Russell.

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Minnesota Timberwolves: D'Angelo Russell

Miami Heat: Kyle Lowry

Verdict: I would NOT make this trade. This is essentially a lateral move with significant risk for the remainder of this season and the following season.

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Minnesota Timberwolves: D'Angelo Russell, Bryn Forbes

Los Angeles Clippers: Luke Kennard, Robert Covington

Verdict: I would reluctantly make this trade, assuming the Timberwolves are not going to extend or re-sign Russell.

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Minnesota Timberwolves: D'Angelo Russell, Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid, Bryn Forbes

Toronto Raptors: Fred VanVleet, Gary Trent Jr.

Verdict: I would be open to this trade, but there is significant risk involved. VanVleet has a player option for next year so any trade involving him would be contingent on him signing an extension or agreeing to re-sign after the season.