Minnesota Sports Forum

The typical D'Angelo Russell detractors here will see no value in this post, but they're a lost cause at this point so it doesn't matter. This is more for those in the middle or those that see the value Russell brings.

Contrary to the nonsense that has been said prior, Russell is having a very productive season for the Timberwolves. That's obvious by his traditional averages through 41 games. In 32.5 MPG, he's averaging 17.0 PPG, 6.2 APG (2.7 TOV), 3.1 RPG, and 1.1 SPG with 45.9 FG%, 55.1 2P%, 36.2 3P% (on 6.5 3PA), and 85.3 FT% splits -- an eFG% of 54.7 and TS% of 58.7. For reference, the average eFG% and TS% for point guards this season is 51.4 and 55.3, respectively. Russell is also second in the NBA in mid-range shooting efficiency (53.2%) among those that have taken at least 100 FGA trailing only Kevin Durant (57.1%). Objectively, Russell is above average with regard to scoring efficiency at his position this season. Anyone who says differently simply isn't paying attention. He's also one of just 16 players in the NBA this season averaging at least 17.0 PPG and 6.0 APG -- and doing so on an unspectacular 22.5 USG%. Players that are able to score AND facilitate in this league with respectable volume are difficult to find. That's just the truth of the matter.

Furthermore, Russell's been on an absolute tear for over two months now. Dating back to November 13th, which was essentially his season breakout against Cleveland, he's threatened 50/40/90 splits, which is impressive no matter how you feel about the player. In those 28 games, he's shooting 49.5% from the floor, 38.8% from three-point range, and 89.2% from the free throw line to go along with 18.7 PPG and 6.3 APG. Russell's contributions, along with Anthony Edwards', have absolutely been key in keeping the ship afloat without Karl-Anthony Towns.

We can also deduce that Russell's been a positive contributor through more advanced metrics. Russell's EPM (+1.0), RPM (+2.18), and BPM (+0.5) -- commonly-used adjusted plus-minus metrics -- are all positive and he accounts for the third-most estimated wins added (3.6 eW, 86th percentile) on the team -- behind just Anthony Edwards and Jaden McDaniels (impressive for our two young studs), and ahead of Rudy Gobert. D-Lo also has the third-highest VORP (0.8 ) on the team behind Edwards and Karl-Anthony Towns (we miss him).

If you are one of those who are still acting as if Russell is a negative on the floor, or a player that this franchise can simply discard without basketball-related ramifications, you are simply oblivious to the sport you seemingly enjoy. If your argument for moving on from him is entirely related to future financial impacts and/or the unknown of contract negotiations, then I can hear and appreciate that, but what we cannot continue to do here is act like D-Lo isn't playing well. There is no "addition by subtraction" situation here. There is no better available option on the roster. And there is no realistic trade involving him that will make the Timberwolves better from a basketball standpoint. If Minnesota chooses to move him, it will almost certainly be because they feel they have to maintain financial flexibility in the future and they doubt they'll be able to come to an agreement on a new contract.

The four players that were most controversial on this board were Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, Andrew Wiggins, and DLO. Of those, I think DLO has one very vocal supporter (Cam), lots of vocal opponents, including some folks whose sole purpose on this board is to troll DLO (D-Loser), and another group that are more neutral and might be willing to keep DLO at a lower price than what he's paid now.

So to me the REAL controversy on DLO is whether we should jettison him no matter what, i.e. addition by subtraction OR should we try to hold onto him at a lower price and somewhat more limited role, assuming him and his agent eventually come to that realization as well.

I think the controversies with guys like Love, Rubio, and Wiggins had more diversity, meaning there was a more even distribution of opinions, with some extremes thrown in. I could be mis-remembering though.

Pretty much, Q.

The Russell discussions have a sort of paint-by-numbers vibe to them at this point. We all know the beats by now... the exact moment Cam chimes in. When FNG will pull out +/-. When one of the trolls will arrive. When Cam insults somebody for disagreeing with him. When somebody with a realistic take calms the discourse for a very short while... before... we do it all again.

Camden wrote:The typical D'Angelo Russell detractors here will see no value in this post, but they're a lost cause at this point so it doesn't matter. This is more for those in the middle or those that see the value Russell brings.

Contrary to the nonsense that has been said prior, Russell is having a very productive season for the Timberwolves. That's obvious by his traditional averages through 41 games. In 32.5 MPG, he's averaging 17.0 PPG, 6.2 APG (2.7 TOV), 3.1 RPG, and 1.1 SPG with 45.9 FG%, 55.1 2P%, 36.2 3P% (on 6.5 3PA), and 85.3 FT% splits -- an eFG% of 54.7 and TS% of 58.7. For reference, the average eFG% and TS% for point guards this season is 51.4 and 55.3, respectively. Russell is also second in the NBA in mid-range shooting efficiency (53.2%) among those that have taken at least 100 FGA trailing only Kevin Durant (57.1%). Objectively, Russell is above average with regard to scoring efficiency at his position this season. Anyone who says differently simply isn't paying attention. He's also one of just 16 players in the NBA this season averaging at least 17.0 PPG and 6.0 APG -- and doing so on an unspectacular 22.5 USG%. Players that are able to score AND facilitate in this league with respectable volume are difficult to find. That's just the truth of the matter.

Furthermore, Russell's been on an absolute tear for over two months now. Dating back to November 13th, which was essentially his season breakout against Cleveland, he's threatened 50/40/90 splits, which is impressive no matter how you feel about the player. In those 28 games, he's shooting 49.5% from the floor, 38.8% from three-point range, and 89.2% from the free throw line to go along with 18.7 PPG and 6.3 APG. Russell's contributions, along with Anthony Edwards', have absolutely been key in keeping the ship afloat without Karl-Anthony Towns.

We can also deduce that Russell's been a positive contributor through more advanced metrics. Russell's EPM (+1.0), RPM (+2.18), and BPM (+0.5) -- commonly-used adjusted plus-minus metrics -- are all positive and he accounts for the third-most estimated wins added (3.6 eW, 86th percentile) on the team -- behind just Anthony Edwards and Jaden McDaniels (impressive for our two young studs), and ahead of Rudy Gobert. D-Lo also has the third-highest VORP (0.8 ) on the team behind Edwards and Karl-Anthony Towns (we miss him).

If you are one of those who are still acting as if Russell is a negative on the floor, or a player that this franchise can simply discard without basketball-related ramifications, you are simply oblivious to the sport you seemingly enjoy. If your argument for moving on from him is entirely related to future financial impacts and/or the unknown of contract negotiations, then I can hear and appreciate that, but what we cannot continue to do here is act like D-Lo isn't playing well. There is no "addition by subtraction" situation here. There is no better available option on the roster. And there is no realistic trade involving him that will make the Timberwolves better from a basketball standpoint. If Minnesota chooses to move him, it will almost certainly be because they feel they have to maintain financial flexibility in the future and they doubt they'll be able to come to an agreement on a new contract.

The funny thing is at the beginning of the season I wanted him to be more like Phoenix Chris Paul. Well, he's actually getting closer to that, but without the great defense. He has been absolutely on fire from the mid-range, just like Chris Paul, making drop coverage harder to play against him when he and Rudy go pick and roll. And his usage is at a career low and closer to the Phoenix Chris Paul level.

That being said, Finch a couple times now has chosen to go away from DLO to close out games. He's going to say all the politically correct things when that happens, but it's a reality that belies the advanced stats that tell us he's our 3rd best player on the team.

Bottom line....he's a hard player to trust defensively. And we already have two other guys like that in Ant (mostly off ball) and KAT. Can we really have three starters that are hard to trust defensively? Especially when Rudy isn't in the game?

Cam's post actually supports Cool's contention that Dlo is playing well and now might be the most prudent time to make a trade for maximizing a return, like getting a draft pick as well.

Personally, I would welcome a trade. Dlo lacks the explosiveness (twitch) that many PGs possess. He has a great shooting touch inside the arc, and is crafty enough to create his shot. But that lack of explosiveness is exploited on the defensive end.

We get an FVV audition today! Dlo and Forbes for FVV and Porter works in the trade machine...

[Edit: Oops! The FVV audition is still a couple games away. Today we get the Walker Kessler show!)

60WinTim wrote:Cam's post actually supports Cool's contention that Dlo is playing well and now might be the most prudent time to make a trade for maximizing a return, like getting a draft pick as well.

Personally, I would welcome a trade. Dlo lacks the explosiveness (twitch) that many PGs possess. He has a great shooting touch inside the arc, and is crafty enough to create his shot. But that lack of explosiveness is exploited on the defensive end.

We get an FVV audition today! Dlo and Forbes for FVV and Porter works in the trade machine...

That's really all I was trying to say

Cam, you should do a little self examination before you label other people, trolls. The way I see it, you are the ultimate troll. You shove your opinions down everybody's throat constantly and when you have made up your mind, you listen to nobody else and you think you are smarter than everyone else and make disparaging remarks, attack other's intelligence and get sarcastic when challenged.

Q-was-here wrote:The four players that were most controversial on this board were Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, Andrew Wiggins, and DLO. Of those, I think DLO has one very vocal supporter (Cam), lots of vocal opponents, including some folks whose sole purpose on this board is to troll DLO (D-Loser), and another group that are more neutral and might be willing to keep DLO at a lower price than what he's paid now.

So to me the REAL controversy on DLO is whether we should jettison him no matter what, i.e. addition by subtraction OR should we try to hold onto him at a lower price and somewhat more limited role, assuming him and his agent eventually come to that realization as well.

I think the controversies with guys like Love, Rubio, and Wiggins had more diversity, meaning there was a more even distribution of opinions, with some extremes thrown in. I could be mis-remembering though.

Hey Q, since you can make baseless assumptions about me, I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you're a complete idiot in all areas of your life (based on your idiotic takes here). Maybe that's not fair, but screw you man.

D-Mac wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:The four players that were most controversial on this board were Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, Andrew Wiggins, and DLO. Of those, I think DLO has one very vocal supporter (Cam), lots of vocal opponents, including some folks whose sole purpose on this board is to troll DLO (D-Loser), and another group that are more neutral and might be willing to keep DLO at a lower price than what he's paid now.

So to me the REAL controversy on DLO is whether we should jettison him no matter what, i.e. addition by subtraction OR should we try to hold onto him at a lower price and somewhat more limited role, assuming him and his agent eventually come to that realization as well.

I think the controversies with guys like Love, Rubio, and Wiggins had more diversity, meaning there was a more even distribution of opinions, with some extremes thrown in. I could be mis-remembering though.

Hey Q, since you can make baseless assumptions about me, I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you're a complete idiot in all areas of your life (based on your idiotic takes here). Maybe that's not fair, but screw you man.

The difference is I'm not making assumptions. I'm basing my take on your actual activity on this board. Your handle is "D-Loser" for God's sake! Trolling DLO is literally your brand!

KG4Ever wrote:Cam, you should do a little self examination before you label other people, trolls. The way I see it, you are the ultimate troll. You shove your opinions down everybody's throat constantly and when you have made up your mind, you listen to nobody else and you think you are smarter than everyone else and make disparaging remarks, attack other's intelligence and get sarcastic when challenged.

Right! This board has some good posters, like yourself, cool and lip to name a few, but otherwise it's a group of trolls, led by Camden. They make stupid, irrational arguments and then when they are proven to be stupid and irrational, they shove them down your throat anyway. When Camden disappears for a while, he spins it in a positive way, but when I disappear, I'm a flaky troll... gotta love the spin machine :) my login actually wasn't working for a while, and I didn't really care enough to fix it I guess. Btw Cool, if you see this, thanks for the message (just saw it) and keep up the good logical posts... need someone to bring some balance to this board!