It's time to move on from DLO....

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

If you get Tyus Jones, in my mind it goes with a bigger plan to also land another big that can carry a higher usage than Vando and replace him as a starter. John Collins might be the dream here. But even a guy like Hartenstein if we decided to go with a true Center is capable of being the 3rd scorer in a lineup with firepower like KAT and Ant. I mean I'm running damn-near everything through those two.

With Dipo, it's more PG by committee, meaning him, Beverley, and McLaughlin are all in the regular rotation and take on the majority of bringing the ball up the floor to initiate the offense.

Minnesota needs to pursue an upgrade at the four regardless of what they inevitably do with D'Angelo Russell. The question then becomes: Are you using Russell to make that happen? And if so, then who would be the target(s)? The team acquiring Russell would theoretically need to have a need in the backcourt and a surplus in the frontcourt. Atlanta, and therefore John Collins, doesn't make much sense there, but would Dallas if Jalen Brunson walks in free agency? I suppose that could be a match. The trade partners for that scenario aren't abundant, especially when you consider that the incoming big needs to fit next to Karl-Anthony Towns.

Wouldn't the Timberwolves be better off signing Isaiah Hartenstein and keeping Russell? It seems to me that would be a wise decision that wouldn't rock the boat much.

Speaking of third options, who becomes Minnesota's on nights where Towns and/or Anthony Edwards are off? Would Tyus Jones be capable of stepping up? Is Malik Beasley, Jaylen Nowell, or Jaden McDaniels ready to be THAT kind of offensive pillar on a consistent basis? I think the Wolves would take a significant step back here, especially with how often Towns gets double-teamed and is ineffective at beating that coverage. I think we'd be overestimating the potency of a Towns/Edwards duo on their own at this point.

This isn't to say that these players couldn't be useful to some degree, but I have a really difficult time imagining the Wolves getting better with them in place of Russell. On the contrary, I would predict less than 46 wins immediately.

[Monster]

Regular season DLO vs Playoff DLO curious on if the stats tell the same story?

Just from a viewing perspective, it seemed the team was better with J-Mac & Beverley all out hustle style of play.

I think Beverley as the veteran leader and a developing J-Mac could be a net win over DLO. Maybe add rookie guard or another cheap vet guard. Finch seemed to think J-Mac was the answer with everything on the line. If we keep DLO I think he should be moved into 6th man of the year type of role. I've already said this in the past but when he is hot you don't want another player on the court and he would be focused on what he does best, scoring.

It's rather obvious but it really depends on what you can get in return.

It depends on how you evaluate players and the game of basketball in general. For instance, D'Angelo Russell had the second-highest net rating for Minnesota in the playoffs behind Jaden McDaniels. He wasn't nearly as good as that rating would indicate, but he was much better (or less bad) than his terrible shooting would suggest. In any case, it would be unwise and illogical to make personnel decisions based on a single playoff series alone. Should Utah move Donovan Mitchell? What about Atlanta and Trae Young? Two higher usage guards that struggled and came up short in their playoff series. Maybe let's pump the brakes and consider the entire picture.

Patrick Beverley and Jordan McLaughlin cannot replace Russell unless we want to take a serious step back in the wins column. I shouldn't need to expend energy explaining that. It's also unlikely that a rookie or journeyman could give you enough to make up the difference. If Russell is moved or allowed to walk next summer, then the Wolves will have to bring in an outside replacement.

Also, Chris Finch rode the hot hand in a singular moment. Kudos to him for having the courage to bench one of his best players who was struggling, but he'd be the first to tell you that it was situational coaching and nothing more. Watch and/or read his exit interview and you'll see that he willingly shares the blame for how Russell was used in that series. There will be a day for Russell to primarily come off the bench for whatever team he plays for. He's not there yet-- not even close.

I'm gonna take a not so wild guess and say that Beverly and McLaughlin were not guys the Grizzlies were working hard to stop. I had asked people to say weeks ago who was guarding Russell in that series and nobody has said. I believe it was Britt and Dane Moore that said that often Dillon Brooks that was assigned to Russell. I know that Beverly attacked the hell out of Ja Morant when Ja was on him. Those 2 guys being guarded by less strong defenders (Tyus is a good defender but that's not a matchup I worry about McLaughlin not being able to work against) or not being game planned against is a pretty significant factor.

[Monster]

If you get Tyus Jones, in my mind it goes with a bigger plan to also land another big that can carry a higher usage than Vando and replace him as a starter. John Collins might be the dream here. But even a guy like Hartenstein if we decided to go with a true Center is capable of being the 3rd scorer in a lineup with firepower like KAT and Ant. I mean I'm running damn-near everything through those two.

With Dipo, it's more PG by committee, meaning him, Beverley, and McLaughlin are all in the regular rotation and take on the majority of bringing the ball up the floor to initiate the offense.

Minnesota needs to pursue an upgrade at the four regardless of what they inevitably do with D'Angelo Russell. The question then becomes: Are you using Russell to make that happen? And if so, then who would be the target(s)? The team acquiring Russell would theoretically need to have a need in the backcourt and a surplus in the frontcourt. Atlanta, and therefore John Collins, doesn't make much sense there, but would Dallas if Jalen Brunson walks in free agency? I suppose that could be a match. The trade partners for that scenario aren't abundant, especially when you consider that the incoming big needs to fit next to Karl-Anthony Towns.

Wouldn't the Timberwolves be better off signing Isaiah Hartenstein and keeping Russell? It seems to me that would be a wise decision that wouldn't rock the boat much.

Speaking of third options, who becomes Minnesota's on nights where Towns and/or Anthony Edwards are off? Would Tyus Jones be capable of stepping up? Is Malik Beasley, Jaylen Nowell, or Jaden McDaniels ready to be THAT kind of offensive pillar on a consistent basis? I think the Wolves would take a significant step back here, especially with how often Towns gets double-teamed and is ineffective at beating that coverage. I think we'd be overestimating the potency of a Towns/Edwards duo on their own at this point.

This isn't to say that these players couldn't be useful to some degree, but I have a really difficult time imagining the Wolves getting better with them in place of Russell. On the contrary, I would predict less than 46 wins immediately.

Q I need more clarification on your Hartenstein comment. It sounds like you think he is good enough to be the 3rd scorer on a team taking the next step. The reality is we don't even know if the guy is a starting level player or not.

[WildWolf2813]

If you get Tyus Jones, in my mind it goes with a bigger plan to also land another big that can carry a higher usage than Vando and replace him as a starter. John Collins might be the dream here. But even a guy like Hartenstein if we decided to go with a true Center is capable of being the 3rd scorer in a lineup with firepower like KAT and Ant. I mean I'm running damn-near everything through those two.

With Dipo, it's more PG by committee, meaning him, Beverley, and McLaughlin are all in the regular rotation and take on the majority of bringing the ball up the floor to initiate the offense.

Minnesota needs to pursue an upgrade at the four regardless of what they inevitably do with D'Angelo Russell. The question then becomes: Are you using Russell to make that happen? And if so, then who would be the target(s)? The team acquiring Russell would theoretically need to have a need in the backcourt and a surplus in the frontcourt. Atlanta, and therefore John Collins, doesn't make much sense there, but would Dallas if Jalen Brunson walks in free agency? I suppose that could be a match. The trade partners for that scenario aren't abundant, especially when you consider that the incoming big needs to fit next to Karl-Anthony Towns.

Wouldn't the Timberwolves be better off signing Isaiah Hartenstein and keeping Russell? It seems to me that would be a wise decision that wouldn't rock the boat much.

Speaking of third options, who becomes Minnesota's on nights where Towns and/or Anthony Edwards are off? Would Tyus Jones be capable of stepping up? Is Malik Beasley, Jaylen Nowell, or Jaden McDaniels ready to be THAT kind of offensive pillar on a consistent basis? I think the Wolves would take a significant step back here, especially with how often Towns gets double-teamed and is ineffective at beating that coverage. I think we'd be overestimating the potency of a Towns/Edwards duo on their own at this point.

This isn't to say that these players couldn't be useful to some degree, but I have a really difficult time imagining the Wolves getting better with them in place of Russell. On the contrary, I would predict less than 46 wins immediately.

They may take a step back just by running this same roster back out there.

[Q-is-here]

Minnesota needs to pursue an upgrade at the four regardless of what they inevitably do with D'Angelo Russell. The question then becomes: Are you using Russell to make that happen? And if so, then who would be the target(s)? The team acquiring Russell would theoretically need to have a need in the backcourt and a surplus in the frontcourt. Atlanta, and therefore John Collins, doesn't make much sense there, but would Dallas if Jalen Brunson walks in free agency? I suppose that could be a match. The trade partners for that scenario aren't abundant, especially when you consider that the incoming big needs to fit next to Karl-Anthony Towns.

Wouldn't the Timberwolves be better off signing Isaiah Hartenstein and keeping Russell? It seems to me that would be a wise decision that wouldn't rock the boat much.

Speaking of third options, who becomes Minnesota's on nights where Towns and/or Anthony Edwards are off? Would Tyus Jones be capable of stepping up? Is Malik Beasley, Jaylen Nowell, or Jaden McDaniels ready to be THAT kind of offensive pillar on a consistent basis? I think the Wolves would take a significant step back here, especially with how often Towns gets double-teamed and is ineffective at beating that coverage. I think we'd be overestimating the potency of a Towns/Edwards duo on their own at this point.

This isn't to say that these players couldn't be useful to some degree, but I have a really difficult time imagining the Wolves getting better with them in place of Russell. On the contrary, I would predict less than 46 wins immediately.

The team that wants DLO may want his expiring contract and a vet PG for a year as they break in a rookie or 2nd year guy. He may not even have to be a long-term target for someone else to do a deal with us. There may be three-team or four-team trades out there.

One thing is not like the other two in those three guys above. I thought Jaylen Nowell absolutely proved last year that you can give him the ball and he can get you buckets without a lot of help being set up. In some ways, Nowell is even more well-rounded than Ant as a scorer because he can absolutely make shots from 6-18 feet, a range Ant struggles from.

Ja Morant carried a massive 34% usage rate this past season and clearly is at the center of everything they do offensively when he plays. Yet somehow Memphis was able to reel off a bunch of wins when he was out. Somehow they were able to do it! And they don't have anyone nearly as potent as Ant or KAT as a #2 after Ja.

[Q-is-here]

If you get Tyus Jones, in my mind it goes with a bigger plan to also land another big that can carry a higher usage than Vando and replace him as a starter. John Collins might be the dream here. But even a guy like Hartenstein if we decided to go with a true Center is capable of being the 3rd scorer in a lineup with firepower like KAT and Ant. I mean I'm running damn-near everything through those two.

With Dipo, it's more PG by committee, meaning him, Beverley, and McLaughlin are all in the regular rotation and take on the majority of bringing the ball up the floor to initiate the offense.

Minnesota needs to pursue an upgrade at the four regardless of what they inevitably do with D'Angelo Russell. The question then becomes: Are you using Russell to make that happen? And if so, then who would be the target(s)? The team acquiring Russell would theoretically need to have a need in the backcourt and a surplus in the frontcourt. Atlanta, and therefore John Collins, doesn't make much sense there, but would Dallas if Jalen Brunson walks in free agency? I suppose that could be a match. The trade partners for that scenario aren't abundant, especially when you consider that the incoming big needs to fit next to Karl-Anthony Towns.

Wouldn't the Timberwolves be better off signing Isaiah Hartenstein and keeping Russell? It seems to me that would be a wise decision that wouldn't rock the boat much.

Speaking of third options, who becomes Minnesota's on nights where Towns and/or Anthony Edwards are off? Would Tyus Jones be capable of stepping up? Is Malik Beasley, Jaylen Nowell, or Jaden McDaniels ready to be THAT kind of offensive pillar on a consistent basis? I think the Wolves would take a significant step back here, especially with how often Towns gets double-teamed and is ineffective at beating that coverage. I think we'd be overestimating the potency of a Towns/Edwards duo on their own at this point.

This isn't to say that these players couldn't be useful to some degree, but I have a really difficult time imagining the Wolves getting better with them in place of Russell. On the contrary, I would predict less than 46 wins immediately.

Q I need more clarification on your Hartenstein comment. It sounds like you think he is good enough to be the 3rd scorer on a team taking the next step. The reality is we don't even know if the guy is a starting level player or not.

I think he could be the 3rd option in a starting lineup that includes KAT and Ant. Keep in mind, we'd be leaning heavily on our 6th man for shot creation too (and I think we have that guy in Nowell - which is another guy I'm willing to place my bets with).

Here are some of the 3rd offensive options in starting lineups of a few great teams this year and their avg PPG:
Dorian Finney-Smith - 11 PPG (3rd highest scoring starter behind Doncic and Brunson)
Kyle Lowry - 13.4 PPG
Marcus Smart - 12.1 PPG
Chris Paul - 14.7

Hartenstein averaged 8.3 points last year playing 18 minutes per game. His career FG% is 60% and he carries a usage just under 20%. I'm pretty sure our offense would be just fine with him on the floor with KAT and Ant. He is entering his prime and was seriously pushing Zubac this past season IMO.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

The team that wants DLO may want his expiring contract and a vet PG for a year as they break in a rookie or 2nd year guy. He may not even have to be a long-term target for someone else to do a deal with us. There may be three-team or four-team trades out there.

One thing is not like the other two in those three guys above. I thought Jaylen Nowell absolutely proved last year that you can give him the ball and he can get you buckets without a lot of help being set up. In some ways, Nowell is even more well-rounded than Ant as a scorer because he can absolutely make shots from 6-18 feet, a range Ant struggles from.

Ja Morant carried a massive 34% usage rate this past season and clearly is at the center of everything they do offensively when he plays. Yet somehow Memphis was able to reel off a bunch of wins when he was out. Somehow they were able to do it! And they don't have anyone nearly as potent as Ant or KAT as a #2 after Ja.

I'm a seasoned Jaylen Nowell supporter. I have confidence in him becoming a sixth man and displacing Malik Beasley from the roster. That's a very different assignment than stepping up and taking on some of the responsibilities that D'Angelo Russell shoulders as a third option next to Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards, and the top option when those two take a seat. Nowell shouldn't be asked to be THAT guy just yet. He's a bucket-getter, but it's typically when opposing defenses aren't focusing on him whatsoever, which allows him to beat a single defender. That's where he can win.

Memphis has been excellent in games played without Ja Morant, but are we sure it's a result of Tyus Jones' wizardry, or perhaps the Grizzlies' 2-8 in the rotation stepped up significantly as a whole? As we've discussed before, Desmond Bane and Jaren Jackson Jr.'s numbers were way above their usual outputs during those stretches. They did the majority of the heavy lifting. Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson were available and productive as well. Kudos to Jones for stepping up and keeping the ship afloat, but I think you're giving the wrong guy the bulk of the credit. And that's not even getting into the fact that Memphis was in the midst of a soft spot in their schedule when Morant was injured earlier in the season. Jones is an excellent backup point guard. He is not a full-time starter on a team looking to advance in the playoffs. That would be asking way too much of him, in my opinion.

[Monster]

If you get Tyus Jones, in my mind it goes with a bigger plan to also land another big that can carry a higher usage than Vando and replace him as a starter. John Collins might be the dream here. But even a guy like Hartenstein if we decided to go with a true Center is capable of being the 3rd scorer in a lineup with firepower like KAT and Ant. I mean I'm running damn-near everything through those two.

With Dipo, it's more PG by committee, meaning him, Beverley, and McLaughlin are all in the regular rotation and take on the majority of bringing the ball up the floor to initiate the offense.

Minnesota needs to pursue an upgrade at the four regardless of what they inevitably do with D'Angelo Russell. The question then becomes: Are you using Russell to make that happen? And if so, then who would be the target(s)? The team acquiring Russell would theoretically need to have a need in the backcourt and a surplus in the frontcourt. Atlanta, and therefore John Collins, doesn't make much sense there, but would Dallas if Jalen Brunson walks in free agency? I suppose that could be a match. The trade partners for that scenario aren't abundant, especially when you consider that the incoming big needs to fit next to Karl-Anthony Towns.

Wouldn't the Timberwolves be better off signing Isaiah Hartenstein and keeping Russell? It seems to me that would be a wise decision that wouldn't rock the boat much.

Speaking of third options, who becomes Minnesota's on nights where Towns and/or Anthony Edwards are off? Would Tyus Jones be capable of stepping up? Is Malik Beasley, Jaylen Nowell, or Jaden McDaniels ready to be THAT kind of offensive pillar on a consistent basis? I think the Wolves would take a significant step back here, especially with how often Towns gets double-teamed and is ineffective at beating that coverage. I think we'd be overestimating the potency of a Towns/Edwards duo on their own at this point.

This isn't to say that these players couldn't be useful to some degree, but I have a really difficult time imagining the Wolves getting better with them in place of Russell. On the contrary, I would predict less than 46 wins immediately.

Q I need more clarification on your Hartenstein comment. It sounds like you think he is good enough to be the 3rd scorer on a team taking the next step. The reality is we don't even know if the guy is a starting level player or not.

I think he could be the 3rd option in a starting lineup that includes KAT and Ant. Keep in mind, we'd be leaning heavily on our 6th man for shot creation too (and I think we have that guy in Nowell - which is another guy I'm willing to place my bets with).

Here are some of the 3rd offensive options in starting lineups of a few great teams this year and their avg PPG:
Dorian Finney-Smith - 11 PPG (3rd highest scoring starter behind Doncic and Brunson)
Kyle Lowry - 13.4 PPG
Marcus Smart - 12.1 PPG
Chris Paul - 14.7

Hartenstein averaged 8.3 points last year playing 18 minutes per game. His career FG% is 60% and he carries a usage just under 20%. I'm pretty sure our offense would be just fine with him on the floor with KAT and Ant. He is entering his prime and was seriously pushing Zubac this past season IMO.

Why get rid of Russell then? Just sign Hartenstein and win the championship!!!! Lol

If Hartenstein is as good as you and a couple other posters here suggest I'll continue to be pissed that we didn't sign one of these up and coming guys to a cheap contract before they figured it out. I'm still annoyed about not getting Seth Curry. Fortunately the Wolves have done a pretty good job of finding talent via 2nd round picks and undrafted guys but I think we can do better. I believe in Connelly's ability to do so going forward.

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

I believe one key to improving overall as a team and raising our ceiling is to find a way to move on from DLO and get a fair return for him at the same time. It's short sighted to say there isn't a way to accomplish that. That being said, as fans it's not our job to come up with specific scenarios. It may be fun to speculate, but we really don't know who is available and what options we have. Cam, I can't give you a specific plan. You win that argument. But I'd also be hard pressed to come up with a way we get to the next level with DLO in his current role.

It's up to Connelly to find a way. I don't really care how he goes about it, just that it happens. If it happens without DLO, and I'm betting it will, great. If it happens with DLO that's great too.

Exactly this. To all of the folks saying we need a plan before we get rid of Dlo, my response is simply... "well duh". Whether we we trade him this offseason or let him expire, I have no doubt that a good gm can figure out the necessary moves to actually improve the team without Dlo. To the people asking for specifics I just shake my head... find someone to do my job for me over the next two months and I'll get you specifics. Until then I'm gonna depend on the guy making 8 mil/year to figure those out lol

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

It's only time to move on from DLo when there's a plan to get better from moving on from him. That sounds like a tautology, but I think guys on post sides of this topic make good points. I lean toward Cam's side of this because it's not going to be easy to replace DLo's value to this team. But I'm open to moving on from him because he's not the kind of point guard that Finch wants to run his offense and I don't see how the Wolves extend him.

But I haven't seen the deal yet that makes the Wolves better without him.

Connelly has a plan but I don't think he's sharing this with anyone outside the organization. Heck, I got a plan too and if the Wolves hire me, I will implement it. The money freed up can be better spent and I prefer a lower usage point guard who is more efficient and can defend better. Whether the Wolves move on from DLO this season or next, is really the only question that I see.

Well said