D’Angelo Russell

[Lipoli390]

Who knew that a team could be doomed from the beginning with two 24-year old players that have All-Star nominations under their belts and are both trending upwards in their progression? If literally any other franchise had both pieces -- Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell -- to build around, the discussion wouldn't be "can these two be contenders." It would be "when will these two be contenders."

The Wolves don't deserve any more optimism. They don't deserve any more excuses. They don't deserve anyone believing that they'll actually figure it out. However, two legitimate young stars have been paired up -- with potential to add another one in the upcoming off-season. Are the young stars flawed? Unquestionably -- although every player outside of the top-five or six is as well. Is the team makeup currently flawed? Absolutely.

But is this team going to get better? I believe so. Are more impactful pieces going to be added in support of Towns and Russell? I think that's a fair assumption. Can the front office, as well as the coaching staff, perform in their roles at a high enough level to compete with perennial league juggernauts? That's to be determined, however, if you compare this roster to the one they had a year ago, I think you could argue that the feeling is mostly positive.

Cam - I was hoping you'd weigh in. Thanks for bringing some sanity to this thread. I have doubts about our 24-year old duo, but it's over the top to hold out no reasonable hope for this team eventually becoming a contender around these two all stars. And the bottom line is that this roster is the best it's been in a long time.

[Monster]

It's a highlight video and it's just 12 games but there is some good stuff in there for Russell in his short time with the Wolves.

https://youtu.be/EmoZWgujvCk

I think it's been discussed before but does anyone have the numbers on how well Russell converts his floaters? He can really flip them up high over pretty much anyone.

Rosas may see Harden in Russell but I also see a little bit of Steph Curry and maybe even some Kyrie. All those guys have some clever and somewhat unique aspects to the way they play the game. Russell is absolutely not there yet but I see some tools that he can improve on. As good as Kyrie has been in the playoffs and throughout his career (when healthy) he isn't a guy that could be the best player on his team and be a contender either IMHO. Some people would say that about Harden but I would not. How many teams want/ed Kyrie a few months ago? How many seasons was Steph Curry in the league before he became an MVP and no doubt HOP selection? What about Klay Thompson? I'd settle for someone else on the Wolves roster becoming the next Rip Hamilton type impact player. :) I'm content to see what Russell is or becomes. If he ends up JUST being a pretty good PG I really can't complain too much about that.

[bleedspeed]

We always overvalue our guys.

DLO has already been dealt with by 3 teams.
KAT got manhandled in his one chance in the playoffs as the second-best player on his team.

I just don't see the fire in these guys. I wouldn't consider either a top 20 player. KAT seems to be falling every year in rankings and is not living up to his potential. DLO is not even a top 50 player. That won't get it done.

[AbeVigodaLive]

We always overvalue our guys.

DLO has already been dealt with by 3 teams.
KAT got manhandled in his one chance in the playoffs as the second-best player on his team.

I just don't see the fire in these guys. I wouldn't consider either a top 20 player. KAT seems to be falling every year in rankings and is not living up to his potential. DLO is not even a top 50 player. That won't get it done.

To be fair, Towns wouldn't be the only player to struggle more than expected in his first trip to the playoffs.
Some fail spectacularly, even on their second trip. Remember this gem?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199805020SEA.html

It's one of the worst performances in a close-out game in modern NBA history.

7 points
4 rebounds
3 assists
10 TOs

And that guy became an MVP and world champion.



[Note: It might be relevant that Towns also improved throughout that series. He was horrific in Game 1 + 2. Better but not great in Game 3. And actually did pretty well in Games 4 and 5... averaging 23 and 15 on 60%+ shooting.]

[bleedspeed]

KG had one bad game as a 21-year old that lead his team to the playoffs. KAT has not lead the Wolves team to the playoffs. (That was Jummy's Team)

KG got a lot of rub for not leading his team to win in the playoffs until 2004.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

We always overvalue our guys.

DLO has already been dealt with by 3 teams.
KAT got manhandled in his one chance in the playoffs as the second-best player on his team.

I just don't see the fire in these guys. I wouldn't consider either a top 20 player. KAT seems to be falling every year in rankings and is not living up to his potential. DLO is not even a top 50 player. That won't get it done.

I could argue that D-Lo being traded multiple times was heavily circumstantial, and quite honestly poor moves by some teams looking back.

Los Angeles dealt him to Brooklyn with Timofey Mosgov, who had three-years, $48M left on his deal, for an expiring contract in Brook Lopez and a first-round pick. The Lakers were trying to stay a step ahead in their pursuit of future free agents LeBron James and Paul George. They were also set to take a consensus top-five prospect in Lonzo Ball at No. 2 that same summer. Add all of this up and you can see why they made such a move, however, it has since been considered a poor move in hindsight by multiple pundits around the league.

Brooklyn dealt Russell to Golden State only after agreeing to terms with Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. Not to mention, the sign-and-trade allowed the Nets to pick up an additional first-round pick. This one is pretty much a no-brainer across the board. Russell was the odd man out mainly because Durant and Irving were set to be a package deal.

Lastly, Golden State was never a good landing spot for Russell. Their only agenda for acquiring him was to recoup value instead of losing Durant for absolutely nothing. I feel silly even needing to say this, but the Warriors have Steph Curry and Klay Thompson in their backcourt -- arguably the two best shooters of all-time, a league MVP and one of the best two-way players in the game. Russell was never going to leap either of them nor was he a compatible fit next to them. Case in point, Golden State was always going to be just a pit stop for Russell. Period.

I won't even fully address the comment about Karl-Anthony Towns and Russell's rank amongst their peers. Towns is pretty firmly in that top-20 mix by almost any metric or mathematical calculation you can come up with. Saying Russell isn't a top-50 player might be an even more confusing statement, but some of us value his game differently. That's fine.

Look, I understand the pessimism. I really do. And I get that we want to be rational and avoid being a homer, but sometimes it leads us into swinging too far in the opposite direction. I feel like that's happening a lot in this thread.

[AbeVigodaLive]

KG had one bad game as a 21-year old that lead his team to the playoffs. KAT has not lead the Wolves team to the playoffs. (That was Jummy's Team)

KG got a lot of rub for not leading his team to win in the playoffs until 2004.

I didn't reference Garnett to stomp on his yet-to-be-dug grave, only to point out that other players have found success after struggling early in their careers.

Garnett's one horrific game vs. Town's two pretty terrible games.

Butler was better than Towns. Ok. There's an argument that Googs was as good as Garnett until he was injured. All I'm really saying is that I wouldn't label Towns' entire career over the first two playoff games he ever played.

If anything, I think what's happened after those two playoff games is more telling.

[thedoper]

I think any way you look at it the DLO move was good. He's a better offensive compliment to KAT than Wiggins is, and Wiggins value was very low with a good deal of speculation right here even that we were going to have to move multiple 1st rounders to get rid of him. We were not doing better that what Rosas got. Now the real work starts to build a team around 2 guys with no history of having a clue how you play D. It's not perfect by any means but its a step in the right direction from where we were when Jimmy left. We're not contending and it would be a huge achievement for those two to make the playoffs. But with a few solid moves I could see this team playing competitive basketball, which is really all I've wanted for 16 years.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

How did the Warriors build around Stephen Curry and David Lee years ago? What about the Bulls with Derrick Rose and Carlos Boozer, or the Blazers with Damian Lillard and LaMarcus Aldridge? How have the Nuggets built around Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic?

There have been numerous successful teams that had weak defenders in both the frontcourt and backcourt so it is possible -- for those that continue to act like this franchise is headed in the wrong direction.

[AbeVigodaLive]

How did the Warriors build around Stephen Curry and David Lee years ago? What about the Bulls with Derrick Rose and Carlos Boozer, or the Blazers with Damian Lillard and LaMarcus Aldridge? How have the Nuggets built around Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic?

There have been numerous successful teams that had weak defenders in both the frontcourt and backcourt so it is possible -- for those that continue to act like this franchise is headed in the wrong direction.

Maybe.

I guess the difference is in the details. Will Russell at least try to be decent on defense like Curry? Comparing them at this point, even defensively, is a disservice to Curry.

David Lee was effectively played out of the league because of his defensive liabilities as the game evolved.