D’Angelo Russell

[Lipoli390]

https://theathletic.com/app/themes/athletic/assets/img/save-icon@2x.png

Here's a Jon K article on DLO. As always, it's a really well-written and interesting piece filled with good information and insights.

I continue to believe that Rosas's almost obsessive faith in DLO has been misplaced and that DLO will not combine with KAT to form the star duo typically needed to have a championship contender.

The fact that DLO has played for 4 teams 4.5 years since being drafted #2 is telling. He's not a good defender and seems to lack both the physical tools and tenacity to develop into one. He's not an elite penetrator who can consistently break down opposing defenses. And although he's a very good shooter, his shooting isn't at the level of a Harden or Curry.

Most of all, I don't see the dogged tenacity and hyper-competitiveness in DLO that you typically see in at least one (usually both) of a championship contender's top 2 players. Watching NBA documentaries during the pandemic has reminded me of how important those characteristics are - clearly visible in Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isaiah Thomas, KG, and many others.

Having said all that, I hope I'm wrong. And Jon's article is certainly encouraging.

[bleedspeed]

Would adding a guy with that trait as a complementary piece help? Or does the player with that trait have to be the best player on the team?

[Monster]

https://theathletic.com/app/themes/athletic/assets/img/save-icon@2x.png

Here's a Jon K article on DLO. As always, it's a really well-written and interesting piece filled with good information and insights.

I continue to believe that Rosas's almost obsessive faith in DLO has been misplaced and that DLO will not combine with KAT to form the star duo typically needed to be a championship contender.

The fact that DLO has played for 4 teams 4.5 years since being drafted #2 is telling. He's not a good defender and seems to lack both the physical tools and tenacity to develop into one. He's not an elite penetrative who can consistently break down opposing defenses. And although he's a very good shooter, his shooting isn't at the level of a Harden or Curry.

Most of all, I don't see the dogged tenacity and hyper-competitiveness in DLO that you typically see in at least one (usually both) of a championship contender's top 2 players. Watching NBA documentaries during the pandemic has reminded me of how important those characteristics are - clearly visible in Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isaiah Thomas, KG, and many others

Having said all that, I hope I'm wrong. And Jon's article is certainly encouraging.

Thanks for posting Lip. It feels like some people have just made up their minds about Russell. That's a fair position and there are reasons for that position. I think this article shows there could be reasons to at least enjoy the ride a bit. Maybe he is a bit likeable after all. Maybe he won't be the answer and will be another failing story of the franchise. I think there is a chance there is some hope of good things instead of just woe. Only time will tell. I've always thought that despite Russell having some flaws he has some unique physical tools that he doesn't get credit for. Does Russell really have it in him AND as Wolves fans do we think if it's there at all does this organization actually have the right group to bring it out? Who really knows? Honestly they may have more people in place to help a guard like Russell than they do with a guy like Towns. But really they just need to figure out how to get Towns to play D.

Does Russell (and Maybe Towns) become more endearing or less so like some other max players have seemingly become (a couple of which landed with the Nets which moved Russell on).

It will be interesting to see how teams work and continue to work during this pandemic. There are some situations and factors that could bring a team together or endear a franchise to a player that didn't before. Maybe having this time off my benefit some players. Maybe it will adversely affect others. How will Towns deal with losing his mother? Will that bond Towns and Russell (And maybe Saunders) in a new way? This isn't just about neat human interest stories some of this stuff is just interesting and it can actually matter. Especially now living through this pandemic I find myself intrigued by what will happen...whenever sports actually continues again. Till then there is plenty of other stuff to do.

[Lipoli390]

Would adding a guy with that trait as a complementary piece help? Or does the player with that trait have to be the best player on the team?

I think one of your core all stars needs to have that trait in abundance, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the best of your two or three core guys. The Bulls had MJ, so Scottie Pippen didn't have to have the same level of dog in him. However, I think Scottie was really competitive. So in that case it was their best player, but it didn't have to be.

It's probably more of a spectrum than an either or thing. Some players have more of that trait than others. MJ was at one end of the spectrum and Darko the other end where you'll also find Smiling Wes and Derrick Williams.

I'm not sure yet exactly where DLO falls on the spectrum, but I think he's left of center, closer to Darko than to MJ but not as close to Darko as Wiggins is and not nearly as close to Darko as Wes and Derrick Williams.

I think KAT is right of center on the spectrum, but I don't see him quite in the vicinity of KG, Iverson Kobe or the others close to MJ's end of the spectrum. Yet, KAT could be closer to the MJ end than I currently suspect. He seems to have a lot of dog in him on the offensive end I've end and on the glass.

I think there's still room for hope with both DLO and KAT that one or both might have more dog in him than either has shown so far. I think Beasley has that hyper-competitiveness in him and maybe that will be enough.

[Lipoli390]

Monster - Your post is really good. I have an opinion on DLO, but it's not set in stone. He's still only 24 and you've identified lots of variables that can impact the type of player be becomes. It will be particularly interesting to see how certain players like KAT and DLO emerge on the other side of this pandemic.

I have my doubts about how good KAT will become on the defensive end. But he's an elite, efficient, highly productive scorer. He's also an elite rebounder and very good passer. So he is elite or very good in several facets of the game. I still believe he doesn't have to become more than an average or even slightly below average defender for the Wolves to become a championship contender. The Mavs won with Dirk as their PF and Houston is a contender even though their best player, Harden, is a poor defender. But it's much more difficult for the Wolves now that Rosas has added a poor defensive PG as the team's second star.

How can the Wolves become a contender built around Towns and DLO assuming neither one becomes a good defender or reveals himself to be a hyper-competitive emotional leader? In my view, here's how:

1. Add a tough, shot-blocking defensive starting big to the roster to play alongside KAT.

2. Have at least one great defender, who isn't an offensive liability, starting at one of the two wing positions. A Covington type 3&D guy. Okogie and Culver have the defensive chops to become that sort of player, but both have a long way to go on the offensive end. If only Beasley were an elite defender.

3. Make sure all the players around KAT and DLO are on the MJ side of the competitiveness spectrum.

[Lipoli390]

Although I have misgivings about Rosa choosing DLO as the team's other "star" to pair with KAT, Rosas deserves credit for not replicating a key mistake made by several PBOs who preceded him.

The mistake I'm referring to attempting to pair an existing young star with much older talent. McHale and Flip made that mistake choosing the older injury-prone Brandon over Billups as KG's PG pairing. Thibodeau made the same mistake trading for the much older injury-prone Butler to pair with the team's young talent. At best, a substantial age mismatch can produce sort-term but unsustainable success. We saw that when Thibs paired KAT and Wiggins with Butler.

It's not so much the physical differences associated with age; it's more that a 28 year old Butler is in a much different place mentally and professionally than a 21 year old Towns. At 28, with a relatively modest contract, Butler was in a win-now, get paid now mind-set and had a mature understanding of the game.

Rosas's acquisition of DLO and Beasley reflects an understanding of the need to pair KAT with core players who are relatively close to him in age. Let's hope that those two players or perhaps Culver and/or Okogie become championship caliber players who can combine with KAT to form the core of a sustainable championship contender.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

KAT is not a championship level big so I don't really care if Russell is a championship level wing man. Dirk's title happened in a different era of basketball. It's not the same game to compare to. If KAT doesn't become an anchor we won't win a title. It's as simple as that. Get a defensive big next to him and guess who's still getting put in the PnR when it counts to get fried. It's a game of attacking matchups in the playoffs so you can't hide a big anywhere on the court defensively. Scoring and rebounding doesn't win games. We've had back to back highly efficient scoring and rebounding all-star machines and we can't even make the playoffs consistently so it's pretty clear that type of big is not championship caliber.

[apollotsg [enjin:6592798]]

So let me get this right - DLO doesn't have the perceived fire that 4 of the literally best players ever to play in the NBA (EVER) so the guy is trash and a mistake. If our measuring stick is our top three guys have to mirror the top 5 players to ever play the game - we might be shooting a little high...or really fucking delusional

If outward observable "fire" is what you are looking for - maybe Culver should be hanging on your wall

[AbeVigodaLive]

Although I have misgivings about Rosa choosing DLO as the team's other "star" to pair with KAT, Rosas deserves credit for not replicating a key mistake made by several PBOs who preceded him.

The mistake I'm referring to attempting to pair an existing young star with much older talent. McHale and Flip made that mistake choosing the older injury-prone Brandon over Billups as KG's PG pairing. Thibodeau made the same mistake trading for the much older injury-prone Butler to pair with the team's young talent. At best, a substantial age mismatch can produce sort-term but unsustainable success. We saw that when Thibs paired KAT and Wiggins with Butler.

It's not so much the physical differences associated with age; it's more that a 28 year old Butler is in a much different place mentally and professionally than a 21 year old Towns. At 28, with a relatively modest contract, Butler was in a win-now, get paid now mind-set and had a mature understanding of the game.

Rosas's acquisition of DLO and Beasley reflects an understanding of the need to pair KAT with core players who are relatively close to him in age. Let's hope that those two players or perhaps Culver and/or Okogie become championship caliber players who can combine with KAT to form the core of a sustainable championship contender.

Growing together from a young age for many years is mostly from a different era of the NBA.

Teams have to take almost one year at a time now. It's a much more myopic take on the GM/owner job. But the player entitlement movement led his here... for good or bad.

[bleedspeed]

The thing is you need players that hate losing. I think we have a team of guys that are glad to be in NBA.

I don't think it is hard to see who those guys are, but there are not a ton of them.

Where would you say Rubio, LaVine, and Jimmy Butler fall?

I felt like Rubio and Bulter didn't like losing. I think LaVine loved the game, but not sure he hated losing.