Wolves Roster Final?

[Monster]

A few people online have suggested that maybe the Wolves see Knight as more of a PF than a center. That does make some sense and if so that's another guy moving up and making this a bigger team. That would mean the Wolves really don't have another big true center on the roster. Lip or anyone else were there any true centers in SL that impressed you that we could sign on a 2-way deal? Lip you have to answer someone besides Tacko. :)

Edit: Tacko isn't eligible for a 2-way deal anyways.

[Lipoli390]

The Timberwolves signed Nathan Knight to two-year deal that includes a team option. I did not see that coming. They definitely like Knight more than I do, but he has some of the same abilities as Jarred Vanderbilt. That's all 15 roster spots filled now.

I don't know, Cam. I don't see Knight having much if any of Vando's abilities. Vando came out of college as very long SF. Vando has PF length with all the SF ball skills except shooting. He's a high-level athlete who flies around the court getting to loose balls and harassing opponents all over the floor, including on the perimeter. And he's a phenomenal rebounder. Knight is a relatively non-athletic center with a PF's length. He's a solid rebounder, averaging 7.7 rebounds at William & Mary over four years. He heavier, stronger and a better shooter than Vando. He's also a better rim protector than Vando, but not particularly good in that department either. I honestly don't know what Knight brings to the table since he's only played in 70 games over two seasons and averaged around 8 minutes per game.

The good news is that Finch seems to like him a lot and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point when it comes to evaluating players like Knight who he's seen close up. And I'll hold out hope that perhaps his one G-League game is indicative of what he can be. In that one game, he played 35 minutes, scored 33 points, grabbed 12 rebounds, got 2 steals and blocked 4 shots. It's also important to keep in mind that he's the 15th guy on the roster, so we shouldn't be leaning on him heavily.

Nevertheless, I think we should have used our final roster spot on a player who could step in and hold up the fort if Rudy or KAT does down for an extended time. I don't see Naz or Nathan doing filling that role effectively. I think things get especially precarious if Gobert goes down. Gobert is an extraordinary defender and rim protector as well as a terrific rebounder with a 9'7" standing reach. Naz is poor defensive PF with a 9'1" standing reach while Knight is another questionable defensive PF with a 9'1.5 standing reach. Neither one has proven to be a good rebounder. We have no one coming off the bench who can come remotely close to providing the same types of skills Gobert brings, much less at anything close to his level. That's why I wish we could have kept Kessler. And it's also why I thought it made sense to fill that last roster spot with Cousins. No, he's not a great defender. But he's really big and a seasoned veteran.

Finch and Connelly must really like Nathan Knight. In Finch/Connelly we trust, I guess.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Lip, Nathan Knight and Jarred Vanderbilt had comparable numbers in terms of rebounding last season.

Knight: 17.1 TRB%, 12.5 ORB%, 21.8, DRB%

Vanderbilt: 17.8 TRB%, 12.0 ORB%, 23.9 DRB%

The main pushback would be that Vanderbilt played 1,880 minutes to Knight's 267. I do think Knight's ability to battle on the boards and play with energy is real, though. I'd prefer to have Vanderbilt, but I think it's plenty fair to say that they're similar in what they bring to the team.

[Lipoli390]

Lip, Nathan Knight and Jarred Vanderbilt had comparable numbers in terms of rebounding last season.

Knight: 17.1 TRB%, 12.5 ORB%, 21.8, DRB%

Vanderbilt: 17.8 TRB%, 12.0 ORB%, 23.9 DRB%

The main pushback would be that Vanderbilt played 1,880 minutes to Knight's 267. I do think Knight's ability to battle on the boards and play with energy is real, though. I'd prefer to have Vanderbilt, but I think it's plenty fair to say that they're similar in what they bring to the team.

I wasn't aware of that particular comparative rebounding stat. You already anticipated my push back on the huge minutes differential. I'd add that Vando's elite rebounding is something he's always shown statistically throughout his career at every level. Knight hasn't been Vando's rebounding equal statistically over that period. I like Knight's energy, but that energy doesn't translate into anything like what Vando brings because Knight lacks anything close to Vando's athleticism to project that energy around the court with steals, contests, defensive harassment and getting to loose balls. Not that Knight brings nothing. And the rebounding might end up comparable to Vando's. But my main issue isn't that he won't bring what Vando provided. My main concern is that we don't have a big who can step even close to adequately if Gobert or KAT (especially Gobert) goes down for an extended time. My issue with the Knight signing is more in the nature of the opportunity cost. That said, the Knight signing doesn't really bother me a whole lot. And again, I'll trust in Finch.

[Monster]

Lip, Nathan Knight and Jarred Vanderbilt had comparable numbers in terms of rebounding last season.

Knight: 17.1 TRB%, 12.5 ORB%, 21.8, DRB%

Vanderbilt: 17.8 TRB%, 12.0 ORB%, 23.9 DRB%

The main pushback would be that Vanderbilt played 1,880 minutes to Knight's 267. I do think Knight's ability to battle on the boards and play with energy is real, though. I'd prefer to have Vanderbilt, but I think it's plenty fair to say that they're similar in what they bring to the team.

I wasn't aware of that particular comparative rebounding stat. You already anticipated my push back on the huge minutes differential. I'd add that Vando's elite rebounding is something he's always shown statistically throughout his career at every level. Knight hasn't been Vando's rebounding equal statistically over that period. I like Knight's energy, but that energy doesn't translate into anything like what Vando brings because Knight lacks anything close to Vando's athleticism to project that energy around the court with steals, contests, defensive harassment and getting to loose balls. Not that Knight brings nothing. And the rebounding might end up comparable to Vando's. But my main issue isn't that he won't bring what Vando provided. My main concern is that we don't have a big who can step even close to adequately if Gobert or KAT (especially Gobert) goes down for an extended time. My issue with the Knight signing is more in the nature of the opportunity cost. That said, the Knight signing doesn't really bother me a whole lot. And again, I'll trust in Finch.

Vanderbilt can guard like a wing. Knight plays with physicality like a true big. Meanwhile Knight has a base skill set of being able to score all over the floor. I'm not saying he will actually be able to do that at the NBA level but he can handle the ball shoot the ball and has some touch around the rim. He also can get blocked easily but the reality is he is miles better offensively than Vanderbilt even if he is below average at all the things I mentioned Vanderbilt isn't too good at much of anything except riling to the basket and then he has to be able to catch and finish. I don't think you are giving Knight enough credit for his athletic ability. It's absolutely not the same as Vanderbilt who is a pretty unique guy in how he can guard on the perimeter and rebound and defend but Knight moves better than a center no doubt.

Edit: I think you know this but Knight averaged 10.5 rebounds his last year in college in less than 30mpg. That seems pretty good to me.

[Monster]

For that last 2-way I kinda want to go for a younger upside guy. I can't help but still be intrigued with John Butler Jr. He only played a couple minutes the first 2 SL games but then when he got to play (probably partly due to Liddlell's unfortunate injury) he was better each game finishing off with perfect from the field 25 point 7 rebound and no turnovers game against the Thunder. I just watched his highlights from the game where Florida State beat Duke in OT and he had a nice game and clinched the win with a block on Wendell Moore Jr. Keep in mind this is a guy that's 7' tall that shot 39% on 3's as a freshman (44% on FTs though...). He has some ball handling skills too. I mean he ain't gonna be running PG or whatever but he isn't just a catch and shoot guy. Let's lean into this size thing and get ourself another ridiculously lengthy forward.

[Lipoli390]

Lip, Nathan Knight and Jarred Vanderbilt had comparable numbers in terms of rebounding last season.

Knight: 17.1 TRB%, 12.5 ORB%, 21.8, DRB%

Vanderbilt: 17.8 TRB%, 12.0 ORB%, 23.9 DRB%

The main pushback would be that Vanderbilt played 1,880 minutes to Knight's 267. I do think Knight's ability to battle on the boards and play with energy is real, though. I'd prefer to have Vanderbilt, but I think it's plenty fair to say that they're similar in what they bring to the team.

I wasn't aware of that particular comparative rebounding stat. You already anticipated my push back on the huge minutes differential. I'd add that Vando's elite rebounding is something he's always shown statistically throughout his career at every level. Knight hasn't been Vando's rebounding equal statistically over that period. I like Knight's energy, but that energy doesn't translate into anything like what Vando brings because Knight lacks anything close to Vando's athleticism to project that energy around the court with steals, contests, defensive harassment and getting to loose balls. Not that Knight brings nothing. And the rebounding might end up comparable to Vando's. But my main issue isn't that he won't bring what Vando provided. My main concern is that we don't have a big who can step even close to adequately if Gobert or KAT (especially Gobert) goes down for an extended time. My issue with the Knight signing is more in the nature of the opportunity cost. That said, the Knight signing doesn't really bother me a whole lot. And again, I'll trust in Finch.

Vanderbilt can guard like a wing. Knight plays with physicality like a true big. Meanwhile Knight has a base skill set of being able to score all over the floor. I'm not saying he will actually be able to do that at the NBA level but he can handle the ball shoot the ball and has some touch around the rim. He also can get blocked easily but the reality is he is miles better offensively than Vanderbilt even if he is below average at all the things I mentioned Vanderbilt isn't too good at much of anything except riling to the basket and then he has to be able to catch and finish. I don't think you are giving Knight enough credit for his athletic ability. It's absolutely not the same as Vanderbilt who is a pretty unique guy in how he can guard on the perimeter and rebound and defend but Knight moves better than a center no doubt.

Edit: I think you know this but Knight averaged 10.5 rebounds his last year in college in less than 30mpg. That seems pretty good to me.

I think you captured my point, Monster. As you noted, Vando is a wing. I'd add he's a long athletic wing who provides high-level rebounding and can succeed at the PF position defensively. As you noted, Knight is a true big who can score. You're right that I saw Knight's 10.6 rebounds his last year in college. But I'd also note that he was a 4th year senior going up against something short of the best college competition at William & Mary. Nevertheless, i think Knight is a pretty good rebounder. I just don't think he's on Vando's level as a rebounder.

In any event, the key concern for me is that, with Vando and Beverley gone, we'll be missing two starters who were attack dogs on defense, flying around on the perimeter and reeking havoc on opposing players while also getting to loose balls - a talent that is key to maintaining or regaining possessions. We're necessarily going to be a very different team defensively with Gobert and SLO MO. Knight might actually better fit than Vando for the defensive style necessitated by the personnel changes higher in the rotation. But I would have preferred Cousins for that last roster spot because he's bigger and more accomplished - which means I'd be more comfortable with Cousins than Knight as a guy we can count on for an extended period without Gobert or KAT.

The bigs that stood out for me at Summer League are all spoken for. That's why I'd just sign Kevon Harris to the other 2-way and be done with it. I like Kevon's size, energy and toughness.

[Monster]

Lip, Nathan Knight and Jarred Vanderbilt had comparable numbers in terms of rebounding last season.

Knight: 17.1 TRB%, 12.5 ORB%, 21.8, DRB%

Vanderbilt: 17.8 TRB%, 12.0 ORB%, 23.9 DRB%

The main pushback would be that Vanderbilt played 1,880 minutes to Knight's 267. I do think Knight's ability to battle on the boards and play with energy is real, though. I'd prefer to have Vanderbilt, but I think it's plenty fair to say that they're similar in what they bring to the team.

I wasn't aware of that particular comparative rebounding stat. You already anticipated my push back on the huge minutes differential. I'd add that Vando's elite rebounding is something he's always shown statistically throughout his career at every level. Knight hasn't been Vando's rebounding equal statistically over that period. I like Knight's energy, but that energy doesn't translate into anything like what Vando brings because Knight lacks anything close to Vando's athleticism to project that energy around the court with steals, contests, defensive harassment and getting to loose balls. Not that Knight brings nothing. And the rebounding might end up comparable to Vando's. But my main issue isn't that he won't bring what Vando provided. My main concern is that we don't have a big who can step even close to adequately if Gobert or KAT (especially Gobert) goes down for an extended time. My issue with the Knight signing is more in the nature of the opportunity cost. That said, the Knight signing doesn't really bother me a whole lot. And again, I'll trust in Finch.

Vanderbilt can guard like a wing. Knight plays with physicality like a true big. Meanwhile Knight has a base skill set of being able to score all over the floor. I'm not saying he will actually be able to do that at the NBA level but he can handle the ball shoot the ball and has some touch around the rim. He also can get blocked easily but the reality is he is miles better offensively than Vanderbilt even if he is below average at all the things I mentioned Vanderbilt isn't too good at much of anything except riling to the basket and then he has to be able to catch and finish. I don't think you are giving Knight enough credit for his athletic ability. It's absolutely not the same as Vanderbilt who is a pretty unique guy in how he can guard on the perimeter and rebound and defend but Knight moves better than a center no doubt.

Edit: I think you know this but Knight averaged 10.5 rebounds his last year in college in less than 30mpg. That seems pretty good to me.

I think you captured my point, Monster. As you noted, Vando is a wing. I'd add he's a long athletic wing who provides high-level rebounding and can succeed at the PF position defensively. As you noted, Knight is a true big who can score. You're right that I saw Knight's 10.6 rebounds his last year in college. But I'd also note that he was a 4th year senior going up against something short of the best college competition at William & Mary. Nevertheless, i think Knight is a pretty good rebounder. I just don't think he's on Vando's level as a rebounder.

In any event, the key concern for me is that, with Vando and Beverley gone, we'll be missing two starters who were attack dogs on defense, flying around on the perimeter and reeking havoc on opposing players while also getting to loose balls - a talent that is key to maintaining or regaining possessions. We're necessarily going to be a very different team defensively with Gobert and SLO MO. Knight might actually better fit than Vando for the defensive style necessitated by the personnel changes higher in the rotation. But I would have preferred Cousins for that last roster spot because he's bigger and more accomplished - which means I'd be more comfortable with Cousins than Knight as a guy we can count on for an extended period without Gobert or KAT.

The bigs that stood out for me at Summer League are all spoken for. That's why I'd just sign Kevon Harris to the other 2-way and be done with it. I like Kevon's size, energy and toughness.

You specifically said that you wanted youth and as many chances to find a worthwhile player so you can't fault the Wolves for signing Knight to an NBA deal for the last roster spot instead of a vet right? :)

Vanderbilt's spot was essentially taken with a player in Anderson that can help the team win now and he is a different player but he will provide similar impact and quite frankly might be a better player in the playoffs than Vanderbilt which now matters more. Minott could end up being that eventual replacement as a wing type guys with rebounding and big type player skills. Meanwhile Knight brings something the Wolves haven't had as a backup PF in quite a while. He has that center standing reach you love while also plays physically and also can be a threat to score. I think one way to describe him is he is somewhere in between Vanderbilt and Naz Reid except he plays a more physical brand of basketball than either guy.

Again even though I am a fan of Knight I'm not even sure Knight is actually an NBA player but I've thought ever since we signed him last year he might actually be someone that can play PF. If so that's a fairly big dude at that spot. Could he be the next undrafted guy to end up being a worthwhile player? It's possible and I think Knight has done enough the past 2 years to have some optimism about him being successful. As you have mentioned Finch believes in him and my guess is that Connelly probably does too although maybe it's just Finch. That's a fairly strong couple votes if it's both of them. I think it's also likely that at least 1 NBA team was showing interest in signing Knight themselves which maybe is another vote of confidence about Knight as a possible worthwhile NBA player. It wouldn't surprise me if there were teams interested in Knight even if I also thought it was likely the Wolves would be able to keep him on a 2-way deal.

[Q-is-here]

Vando will definitely be missed. What was nice about him is that he was a 4 that could guard wings, as Lip mentions above. And his hustle extended a ton of plays or disrupted plays on the other end.

I think the problem is that the way Vando plays and his unique weaknesses make him best suited for a more limited role of energy big off the bench. Starting as a PF and playing that way ultimately wore him down as the year progressed. And of course teams figured out they could really shade off him defensively and he ultimately wasn't a good enough catcher or finisher to punish teams for it. Like Vando, Gobert can't shoot, but sure as hell makes for a bigger and more reliable target when teams decide to cheat off him.

[Lipoli390]

Vando will definitely be missed. What was nice about him is that he was a 4 that could guard wings, as Lip mentions above. And his hustle extended a ton of plays or disrupted plays on the other end.

I think the problem is that the way Vando plays and his unique weaknesses make him best suited for a more limited role of energy big off the bench. Starting as a PF and playing that way ultimately wore him down as the year progressed. And of course teams figured out they could really shade off him defensively and he ultimately wasn't a good enough catcher or finisher to punish teams for it. Like Vando, Gobert can't shoot, but sure as hell makes for a bigger and more reliable target when teams decide to cheat off him.

Q - I agree with you completely on what Vando's role needed to evolve into if he would have stayed here. My vision was to land a true big to pair with KAT and have Vando as an energy PF off the bench. We got our big, but we lost Vando in the process. Now we don't have Vando or anyone of his ilk coming off the bench and we don't have another big with anything close to Gobert's size or defensive chops.