WolvesFan21 wrote:FNG you're right that he could certainly not be 100%, I doubt he is. His wrist and body I am sure below 90% as he was sick (how bad?) but we know the wrist isn't 100% strong either. He was sick so that might not have helped at all recovery on the wrist and I have no doubt the strength is not there.
The third scenario.
Rosas and Ryan- "Kat we want you back but ONLY when you are 100%. This season we are not in contention for an NBA Championship and that is our ultimate goal. When you are 100% we will get you in there. This is our longterm goal We want your wrist healthy and you yourself for the long haul"
KAT- "Yes that makes sense. When I'm fully healthy I will be back."
You make a persuasive case with what is really a scenario 4, WF, so I'm changing my mind on this one. I think the way you laid it out makes sense to me. While Rosas and Ryan's true goal might be job preservation or getting a top draft pick, they can't present it to KAT that way out of fears he may not be on board and might go public with the tanking scheme. So instead they convince KAT to sit out a few more games because it's best for him and the team long-term.
WolvesFan21 wrote:FNG you're right that he could certainly not be 100%, I doubt he is. His wrist and body I am sure below 90% as he was sick (how bad?) but we know the wrist isn't 100% strong either. He was sick so that might not have helped at all recovery on the wrist and I have no doubt the strength is not there.
The third scenario.
Rosas and Ryan- "Kat we want you back but ONLY when you are 100%. This season we are not in contention for an NBA Championship and that is our ultimate goal. When you are 100% we will get you in there. This is our longterm goal We want your wrist healthy and you yourself for the long haul"
KAT- "Yes that makes sense. When I'm fully healthy I will be back."
You make a persuasive case with what is really a scenario 4, WF, so I'm changing my mind on this one. I think the way you laid it out makes sense to me. While Rosas and Ryan's true goal might be job preservation or getting a top draft pick, they can't present it to KAT that way out of fears he may not be on board and might go public with the tanking scheme. So instead they convince KAT to sit out a few more games because it's best for him and the team long-term.
I got that from the Jordan Doc that aired over the summer. Whoever the POB was when he was young, Jordan got injured, and the POB was trying to hold him out "to tank or miss the playoffs." Even the medical team supposedly said it's a bad idea to start training as it could risk further injury to I think it was his calf of ankle. That it could end his career.
Jordan refused and when he was suppose to be resting he started working out. He came back to the team and was ready to play. Even then they were limiting his minutes in hopes of missing the playoffs. Jordan was pissed off about it that he never accepts losing and will do whatever possible to win.
They ultimately made the playoffs even with Jordans limited minutes. But it was a pretty interesting story behind the scenes. I want to guess it was 1986 or 87?
I look at the whole thing more from a black and white perspective. I can't speak for Glen, but he's 79 years old. Let's just say he's not buying green bananas anymore. Your GM sold you on the idea of trading Wiggins and your draft picks for DLO under the guise this would make us contenders in the West. Now you're tracking toward a bottom 3 finish with no immediate assets to improve. As a businessman I fire that guy after this season. I don't think he cares about KAT missing time. Owners should be bottom line results people. I just think it's unrealistic to believe more failure = job preservation.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:I look at the whole thing more from a black and white perspective. I can't speak for Glen, but he's 79 years old. Let's just say he's not buying green bananas anymore. Your GM sold you on the idea of trading Wiggins and your draft picks for DLO under the guise this would make us contenders in the West. Now you're tracking toward a bottom 3 finish with no immediate assets to improve. As a businessman I fire that guy after this season. I don't think he cares about KAT missing time. Owners should be bottom line results people. I just think it's unrealistic to believe more failure = job preservation.
Herein lies the root of the problem with the Wolves. Glen "should be" whatever our idealized version of a hard-nosed businessman looks like. But he's not. He's proven this time and again. You may not find that rational, but I'm not sure what more evidence you need after all these years to see that he is slow in making decisions and lacks guile when it comes to navigating personnel decisions.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:I look at the whole thing more from a black and white perspective. I can't speak for Glen, but he's 79 years old. Let's just say he's not buying green bananas anymore. Your GM sold you on the idea of trading Wiggins and your draft picks for DLO under the guise this would make us contenders in the West. Now you're tracking toward a bottom 3 finish with no immediate assets to improve. As a businessman I fire that guy after this season. I don't think he cares about KAT missing time. Owners should be bottom line results people. I just think it's unrealistic to believe more failure = job preservation.
Herein lies the root of the problem with the Wolves. Glen "should be" whatever our idealized version of a hard-nosed businessman looks like. But he's not. He's proven this time and again. You may not find that rational, but I'm not sure what more evidence you need after all these years to see that he is slow in making decisions and lacks guile when it comes to navigating personnel decisions.
Yeah I'm not sure what we are actually discussing here. But I'll give my opinion on what seem to be the prevailing questions:
1) Should the Wolves be tanking this season? No, it's time for this organization to begin changing the culture of losing. They went all in on the DLO trade thinking it would propel us to top 4 status in the West. Chances are we are not going to have our #1 pick this year, so we should be trying to make the playoffs.
2) Are the Wolves tanking? I sure as hell hope not and at this point don't believe they are. They are certainly being cautious with KAT, but there could be several reasons for that
3) Is Rosas trying to preserve his job by losing? I may be old school, but one doesn't coincide with the other for me. Again, if that's what this is all about he clearly isn't the right guy for the job
4) Is Glen dumb enough to go along with this hypothetical charade? Unfortunately, yes
I just dont think how anyone could look at this roster and the prescribed rotations from Rosas down to Ryan and say that this team is not tanking. Its been fun to see these unfounded young guys get some run but our team isnt built to win nor has the coaching approach had any movement to winning as a primary objective. Our lineups would have been totally different if Ryan had a mandate to get the best record possible.
thedoper wrote:I just dont think how anyone could look at this roster and the prescribed rotations from Rosas down to Ryan and say that this team is not tanking. Its been fun to see these unfounded young guys get some run but our team isnt built to win nor has the coaching approach had any movement to winning as a primary objective. Our lineups would have been totally different if Ryan had a mandate to get the best record possible.
How would the lineups been different? Focus on the starters if you would.
thedoper wrote:I just dont think how anyone could look at this roster and the prescribed rotations from Rosas down to Ryan and say that this team is not tanking. Its been fun to see these unfounded young guys get some run but our team isnt built to win nor has the coaching approach had any movement to winning as a primary objective. Our lineups would have been totally different if Ryan had a mandate to get the best record possible.
How would the lineups been different? Focus on the starters if you would.
I think its the minute allotments. Beasley and Dlo would be getting closer to 35 mins and the Backups would be getting closer to 15. Instead we have 8 players getting 19 or more minutes. Our "depth" doesnt necessitate that. Yet that was precisely what Glen was saying was going to be our strength this year. I think Rosas and Ryan have tried an experimental hockey lineup strategy based primarily on pace that is more interested in its isolated attributes than in whether or not it will generate wins now. Ryan in his last presser said that he wants to play even faster and players should be winded after their stints of play as an explanation for the minutes distribution. I think hes subbing out players way too fast for the sake of pace, and all of this is at the marching orders of Rosas.
Asking young players who are prone to making mistakes as they're adjusting to the speed of the NBA to play EVEN FASTER is a recipe for disaster in itself.
We have one PG who barely looks awake most nights and another who is 30, but has been playing like he's 40 and Ryan wants to go faster!? I agree, that is nutty.
