KG4Ever wrote:We are a one star team, who desperately need to surround KAT with two way talent to have any hope of contending. I'd bank on the draft pick we gave up in the DLO chance first, then Edwards (who I'm not very high on) and Culver ahead of DLO in terms of future value. I'm sorry to be this grim, but when the DLO trade went down, my thoughts were this franchise is royally f*cked. Thibs and Rosas have been utter disasters and I'm left wondering about lots of what ifs such as if Flip survived or we had competent front office personnel after Flip died.
And you were absolutely correct. Let's see how simple we can make this. We had Wiggins, an overpaid but productive player on a bad basketball team + our 2021 1st and 2nd round picks. Now we have DLO, an overpaid but productive player on a bad basketball team - our 2021 1st and 2nd round picks. Tell me if I'm missing something here.
KG4Ever wrote:We are a one star team, who desperately need to surround KAT with two way talent to have any hope of contending. I'd bank on the draft pick we gave up in the DLO chance first, then Edwards (who I'm not very high on) and Culver ahead of DLO in terms of future value. I'm sorry to be this grim, but when the DLO trade went down, my thoughts were this franchise is royally f*cked. Thibs and Rosas have been utter disasters and I'm left wondering about lots of what ifs such as if Flip survived or we had competent front office personnel after Flip died.
And you were absolutely correct. Let's see how simple we can make this. We had Wiggins, an overpaid but productive player on a bad basketball team + our 2021 1st and 2nd round picks. Now we have DLO, an overpaid but productive player on a bad basketball team - our 2021 1st and 2nd round picks. Tell me if I'm missing something here.
Cool - Sadly, I don't think you're missing anything. I do think DLO is an upgrade over Wiggins, but not a big enough upgrade to justify losing those two picks. And actually, based on their respective performance so far this season, it looks like I might be wrong about DLO as an upgrade.
KG4Ever wrote:We are a one star team, who desperately need to surround KAT with two way talent to have any hope of contending. I'd bank on the draft pick we gave up in the DLO chance first, then Edwards (who I'm not very high on) and Culver ahead of DLO in terms of future value. I'm sorry to be this grim, but when the DLO trade went down, my thoughts were this franchise is royally f*cked. Thibs and Rosas have been utter disasters and I'm left wondering about lots of what ifs such as if Flip survived or we had competent front office personnel after Flip died.
This exactly. I don't know how anyone else can come on here and still say that this trade was anything but a disaster. Yeah the moves made after were terrible also, but cmon. The warriors knew that our pbo was in love with dlo and they also knew that Wiggins was possibly a better overall player. Yeah I also thought we were screwed when we brought in dlo last year as our '2nd star' (hard to say without laughing). Next thing rosas will probably do is trade dlo and a first for a player who looks better than dlo, but actually is just on a better team with a better culture. Rosas is absolutely horrible at his job. Will you realize what a bad trade this was after watching Wiggins tonight or will it be after a smart GS front office drafts a future all star with our #5 overall pick in next years draft... or maybe you'll continue to think that that dlo is an all star :)
KG4Ever wrote:We are a one star team, who desperately need to surround KAT with two way talent to have any hope of contending. I'd bank on the draft pick we gave up in the DLO chance first, then Edwards (who I'm not very high on) and Culver ahead of DLO in terms of future value. I'm sorry to be this grim, but when the DLO trade went down, my thoughts were this franchise is royally f*cked. Thibs and Rosas have been utter disasters and I'm left wondering about lots of what ifs such as if Flip survived or we had competent front office personnel after Flip died.
This exactly. I don't know how anyone else can come on here and still say that this trade was anything but a disaster. Yeah the moves made after were terrible also, but cmon. The warriors knew that our pbo was in love with dlo and they also knew that Wiggins was possibly a better overall player. Yeah I also thought we were screwed when we brought in dlo last year as our '2nd star' (hard to say without laughing). Next thing rosas will probably do is trade dlo and a first for a player who looks better than dlo, but actually is just on a better team with a better culture. Rosas is absolutely horrible at his job. Will you realize what a bad trade this was after watching Wiggins tonight or will it be after a smart GS front office drafts a future all star with our #5 overall pick in next years draft... or maybe you'll continue to think that that dlo is an all star :)
Wiggins is the exact same player he was last year. He is down or identical to his last year as a Wolf in pts, asts, rebs, FG%, FT%, 2ptFG%, VORP, PER, WS, OBPM, DBPM, BPM. Wiggins isn't good either just because the narrative of Wiggins has changed because he is on a more established team.
KG4Ever wrote:We are a one star team, who desperately need to surround KAT with two way talent to have any hope of contending. I'd bank on the draft pick we gave up in the DLO chance first, then Edwards (who I'm not very high on) and Culver ahead of DLO in terms of future value. I'm sorry to be this grim, but when the DLO trade went down, my thoughts were this franchise is royally f*cked. Thibs and Rosas have been utter disasters and I'm left wondering about lots of what ifs such as if Flip survived or we had competent front office personnel after Flip died.
This exactly. I don't know how anyone else can come on here and still say that this trade was anything but a disaster. Yeah the moves made after were terrible also, but cmon. The warriors knew that our pbo was in love with dlo and they also knew that Wiggins was possibly a better overall player. Yeah I also thought we were screwed when we brought in dlo last year as our '2nd star' (hard to say without laughing). Next thing rosas will probably do is trade dlo and a first for a player who looks better than dlo, but actually is just on a better team with a better culture. Rosas is absolutely horrible at his job. Will you realize what a bad trade this was after watching Wiggins tonight or will it be after a smart GS front office drafts a future all star with our #5 overall pick in next years draft... or maybe you'll continue to think that that dlo is an all star :)
Wiggins is the exact same player he was last year. He is down or identical to his last year as a Wolf in pts, asts, rebs, FG%, FT%, 2ptFG%, VORP, PER, WS, OBPM, DBPM, BPM. Wiggins isn't good either just because the narrative of Wiggins has changed because he is on a more established team.
You left out Andrew's 40.7% three-point shooting so far this season, which is substantially higher than his career average and higher than any three-point percentage he's ever had in a Timberwolves uniform. Nevertheless, I still agree with you. Wiggins is essentially the same player he's always been. And so is DLO. I think DLO is a better player. But again, the difference isn't close to enough to justify the trade or DLO's max salary, especially when you consider his fit. In my view, this isn't really about DLO. It's about Rosas and the poor job I believe he's doing as the Wolves' top basketball executive.
KG4Ever wrote:We are a one star team, who desperately need to surround KAT with two way talent to have any hope of contending. I'd bank on the draft pick we gave up in the DLO chance first, then Edwards (who I'm not very high on) and Culver ahead of DLO in terms of future value. I'm sorry to be this grim, but when the DLO trade went down, my thoughts were this franchise is royally f*cked. Thibs and Rosas have been utter disasters and I'm left wondering about lots of what ifs such as if Flip survived or we had competent front office personnel after Flip died.
This exactly. I don't know how anyone else can come on here and still say that this trade was anything but a disaster. Yeah the moves made after were terrible also, but cmon. The warriors knew that our pbo was in love with dlo and they also knew that Wiggins was possibly a better overall player. Yeah I also thought we were screwed when we brought in dlo last year as our '2nd star' (hard to say without laughing). Next thing rosas will probably do is trade dlo and a first for a player who looks better than dlo, but actually is just on a better team with a better culture. Rosas is absolutely horrible at his job. Will you realize what a bad trade this was after watching Wiggins tonight or will it be after a smart GS front office drafts a future all star with our #5 overall pick in next years draft... or maybe you'll continue to think that that dlo is an all star :)
Wiggins is the exact same player he was last year. He is down or identical to his last year as a Wolf in pts, asts, rebs, FG%, FT%, 2ptFG%, VORP, PER, WS, OBPM, DBPM, BPM. Wiggins isn't good either just because the narrative of Wiggins has changed because he is on a more established team.
Hmmm ok. Well he's actually been better this year, but my point is that Wiggins was better than he looked with us and probably not as good as he looks with a good team this year. Also, Russell probably isn't as bad as he's looked with the clown show of an organization, but he's not good either.
Rubio and DLO are statistically both been bad this season and at career lows in many categories BUT to be fair the players they are playing with are mostly young, raw, not that good.
I think when you are playing with bad players it only magnifies your own weaknesses.
They can and both should play better still, but they are not getting much help on either end when guys are not hitting shots for assists and the rim defenders are pretty poor as well. That's just going to hurt your DRTG and ORTG and other stats.
WolvesFan21 wrote:Rubio and DLO are statistically both been bad this season and at career lows in many categories BUT to be fair the players they are playing with are mostly young, raw, not that good.
I think when you are playing with bad players it only magnifies your own weaknesses.
They can and both should play better still, but they are not getting much help on either end when guys are not hitting shots for assists and the rim defenders are pretty poor as well. That's just going to hurt your DRTG and ORTG and other stats.
.....yet somehow DLO was able to make it work with the likes of Treveon Graham and Allen Crabbe playing regular minutes on the wing in Brooklyn. We've seen those two up close and personal literally the following year. They were AWFUL!
Whatever Atkinson did that one season in Brooklyn to coax 42 wins out of that squad and an all-star appearance for DLO has to be one of the great coaching feats in recent history. The talent on that squad was not THAT much better than our KAT-less roster.
I have always seen Wig and D-Lo as overpaid players, but I actually have always preferred Wig to D-Lo straight up...to have given up a first round pick in addition in the trade is unforgivable. D-Lo is a better offensive player than Wig, but Wig's superiority on defense over Russell is greater than Russell's superiority on offense. The difference is even more accentuated this season. I've always thought Wig had the potential to be an excellent shot blocker, and he's finally coming into his own defensively at a still-young 25 years old. I'm not surprised that he is now 6th in the NBA in blocked shots, with the first 5 guys all centers. Neither player is a plus player and it's a travesty that they are getting paid a max salary, but I think Wig has the potential still to become a plus player. D-Lo on the other hand will always be a combo of LaVine, Crawford and Lou Williams at best.
Keeping Ryan Saunders as the coach and trading for D'Angelo Russell are two of the main culprits for why the board wants Rosas gone (true, there are other reasons also). But I think we are ignoring perhaps the main reason for both unpopular decisions: keeping KAT happy. This is a player's league, and they have demonstrated they will hold out or refuse to play hard if they are unhappy and want to be traded. KAT is our best player, but is mercurial in personality at best. We know that he considers D-Lo one of his best friends, and he also has a very strong bond with Ryan Saunders...the loss of a parent at an early age seems to have strengthened that bond. I'm sure that KAT knows Ryan's job security is not strong, and I credit that to the renewed energy he has brought to his defensive game this season...we've all seen it in the few games he has played. He wanted D-Lo (or his other friend Booker) here, and he wants Ryan here. I think Rosas knows he is stuck with Ryan and D-Lo if he wants a happy, productive KAT.
