Do the Inevitable Now, or Wait on Trading Kat

[KG4Ever]

The DLO trade will cost us a building block opportunity in 2021 or 2022 plus Rosas traded two seconds in the DLO and Davis trades and so we are missing three future picks and we arguably got negative assets back if you think we'd have to attach a pick to move DLO. Rebuilding won't be quick or easy even if KAT can get us a Harden haul.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Trade the team's best player (it's not close)... for a bunch of prospects and potential draft picks that could (if things finally broke in our favor) be as good as Towns in a few years.

Ummm...

[KG4Ever]

If Rosas is doing the picking, a bounty of draft picks (probably late first round) won't do us much good. I see no point in trading KAT yet as the haul should be pretty much the same in another year and I'd rather someone other than Rosas doing the picking.

[kekgeek]

It makes no sense to trade him now. This is a strange season with Covid and we haven't had KAT on the floor much because of Covid and his wrist injury. The time to consider dealing him is the end of next season. By that time, we should know enough about the trajectory of our young players and the pairing of DLO and KAT as our two pillars to determine whether it makes sense to continue moving forward with him. At that point, we starting a League-wide bidding frenzy. KAT will command a very big return.

Lip, that's the thing. We know, or at least I do, that KAT and DLO are not going to work as our two pillars. We're wasting time trying to build around those two. If you want to try and get what you can for DLO (not much), we could try to build around KAT. But again we don't have anything to build with for a couple years.

No argument from me on that point, Q. Like you, I'm already convinced that those two won't work as our two pillars. I said t that when we first traded for DLO, which was why I wasn't crazy about the deal. But I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong and that the two can be a good enough tandem to get this team into the playoffs next season, possibly with a high enough seed to get out of the first round. In the meantime, I'd aggressively shop DLO and trade him if able to find a decent deal for him right now, But I think we'd be selling low and I don't think DLO's value goes down much from here. Once KAT is back, it should make DLO look better than he's looked so far this season, which might drive up his value.

If you get the chance, go back and look at the Wolves games against the Clippers and Miami last season after the trade-deadline deals. In the game against the Clippers, KAT played and JMac was our main PG. DLO was out that game. The ball moved beautifully and the Wolves won handily in one of their two best games of the season. JMac was terrific and a key to the win. You could see the potential of this team with KAT, but no DLO. In the Miami game, DLO played and KAT was out. JMac played substantial minutes that game, often alongside DLO, and was again pivotal to the Wolves win in what might have been an even more impressive win than the victory over the Clippers. That was an example of how good this team can be with DLO playing if he's used the right way, plays the right way and has another PG like JMac to facilitate better ball movement.

I'm not optimistic about this team going forward with KAT and DLO as the two pillars, but given the investment already made, this organization has to fully exhaust that possibility before moving KAT. If they can get a good deal for DLO yet this season or before next season, they should do it. But we should stick with KAT until the end of next season and see what happens with or without DLO. KAT will be just as valuable in the trade market then as he is now, if not more so.

Lip, I'm not Q. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. You seem to be contradicting yourself. On the one hand you're convinced KAT and DLO can't be our two pillars, but on the other you leave open the possibility of getting to the Western Conference semifinals. Those two viewpoints don't mesh. You were right on the first point and should have left it at that.

If we wait until the end of next season to move KAT, here is the fallout:

1) I'd be very surprised if KAT doesn't force his way out before that

2) We all age 2 more years while the losses pile up

3) We age another 3 years while our assets from the KAT trade evolve into NBA players

My point is we are hosed right now and we don't have any options to remedy that. We would suck without KAT and we suck with him. DLO's value is lower than whale shit right now, and no one is going to be as dumb as Rosas was in dealing for him. His contract is going to be an albatross for years to come. Trading KAT is a really bad reality, but it's the only way for this franchise to change course.

Cool - I thought for sure you were Q. :) Sorry about that. I'm not contradicting myself. I'm simply acknowledging that you and I could be wrong about the KAT/DLO pairing. Yes, Cam might be right on this one. :) My points is that there's no rush to deal KAT. I'm willing to wait until he tells management he wants out and see if this thing can be salvaged without dealing KAT. To me, its' worth waiting even if the odds of significantly improvement and making the playoffs next season are remote because the cost of waiting is minimal.

The odds of landing another player of KAT's caliber are pretty remote regardless of how many draft picks we have. I think that means giving every chance possible for success with KAT here before we consider trading him, which means giving more time to see if you and I turn out to be wrong about the KAT/DLO pairing or if some of our other young players improve enough to move the needle significantly. Or maybe there's a trade or free agent acquisition that could move the needle. There's simply no compelling reason not to wait. KAT's not going anywhere in the meantime and, having recently turned 25, his value isn't going to decline over the next 12-18 months.

There are no signs or evidence that KAT is pushing to get out of here. And there's no telling when or even if that will happen. KAT has a sentimental attachment to Ryan and DLO is his close friend. Moreover, this season is an anomalous one with Covid, especially as it relates to KAT. So I don't see him demanding a trade until after next season or perhaps late next season at the earliest. If he starts pushing for a trade late next season, then the Wolves might need to consider dealing him at that point, but there's no rush. Again, my preference would be to deal DLO this season, but I recognize there's a risk that doing so would alienate KAT and cause him to want out of here sooner rather than later. That's a risk I'd be willing to take if we could get adequate value in return. Otherwise, we need to try to make this work with both KAT and DLO. I'm not optimistic about the outcome, but I recognize I could be wrong and I don't see any reason to not to wait until at least late next season before we consider dealing KAT.

I got a question to both of you and I really dont have a great answer, I'm just curious.

If for some miracle again the Wolves win the lottery. Would you go all in on trying to add an All NBA talent next to Kat even though it might cost us our future. Would you trade, Beasley, Edwards, Hernangomez #1 pick and our 2024 unprotected 1st for a player like Beal?

If you say you would do that, I think you should try and keep Kat, if you wouldn't then I think you should trade Kat.

It all comes down to what you think Kat is. What is a team of:

Dlo/Rubio
Beal/Culver
Okogie/..... (layman)
Hernangomez/McDaniels
Towns/Naz
Plus other small additions. What is that team? Is that team a contender, is that team a team that can win a playoff series, are they one and done are they even a playoff team.

If you think that team isn't a top 4 team in the west I think you need to trade Kat at the end of the season and try and recoup assets because a "big 3" of Kat/Dlo/Beal are probably highest upside in what the Wolves can do in the years left with Kat

[Lipoli390]

Kekgeek -

My answer to your question is: it depends. It depends on how well this team is playing by the end of this season and who's available at #1 pick in this next NBA draft. If this team is really gelling and one of our young top talents - Edwards, McDaniels or Culver - has started to emerge as a budding star, then I'd be less inclined to do that deal. I haven't been paying any attention to college basketball so far this year so I'm clueless on who the top prospects are going to be in this next draft. But if there's the equivalent of an Anthony Davis, Zion Williamson in this upcoming draft, then I wouldn't do the deal you suggested.

We need to see how this things plays out over the next 57 games. To date, the Wolves have played most of their 15 games to date without KAT. Things will certainly be different if they play the vast majority of their remaining 57 games with him in the lineup. In the meantime, KAT's absence has helped accelerate the development of Naz Reid, Vando and McDaniels, which should make the team deeper and better when KAT returns. Also, it's worth noting that the Wolves were one of a handful of teams that didn't have the opportunity to play in the playoff bubble, which necessarily means they started the season well behind most teams, especially given the lack of any meaningful training camp or preseason. I'm not making excuses. I'm just offering some mitigating facts that logically suggest the Wolves will be significantly better going forward than they've been thus far. How much better and how fast they improve are open questions. And of course it ultimately depends a lot on when KAT comes back and whether he stays healthy.

As I've mentioned in a couple of other posts recently, it's worth looking back at recordings of last season's post trade deadline games against the Clippers and Heat. Those two games provides some insight into how good this team could potentially be if they play the right way. Last night's game against the Pelicans was another indicator that it's too early to completely give up on this team. The Wolves are in a hole right now. But after only 15 games, they still sit only 4 games behind the current 8th seed San Antonio Spurs. That means the hole isn't yet so deep that this team can't climb out of it.

[Coolbreeze44]

It makes no sense to trade him now. This is a strange season with Covid and we haven't had KAT on the floor much because of Covid and his wrist injury. The time to consider dealing him is the end of next season. By that time, we should know enough about the trajectory of our young players and the pairing of DLO and KAT as our two pillars to determine whether it makes sense to continue moving forward with him. At that point, we starting a League-wide bidding frenzy. KAT will command a very big return.

Lip, that's the thing. We know, or at least I do, that KAT and DLO are not going to work as our two pillars. We're wasting time trying to build around those two. If you want to try and get what you can for DLO (not much), we could try to build around KAT. But again we don't have anything to build with for a couple years.

No argument from me on that point, Q. Like you, I'm already convinced that those two won't work as our two pillars. I said t that when we first traded for DLO, which was why I wasn't crazy about the deal. But I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong and that the two can be a good enough tandem to get this team into the playoffs next season, possibly with a high enough seed to get out of the first round. In the meantime, I'd aggressively shop DLO and trade him if able to find a decent deal for him right now, But I think we'd be selling low and I don't think DLO's value goes down much from here. Once KAT is back, it should make DLO look better than he's looked so far this season, which might drive up his value.

If you get the chance, go back and look at the Wolves games against the Clippers and Miami last season after the trade-deadline deals. In the game against the Clippers, KAT played and JMac was our main PG. DLO was out that game. The ball moved beautifully and the Wolves won handily in one of their two best games of the season. JMac was terrific and a key to the win. You could see the potential of this team with KAT, but no DLO. In the Miami game, DLO played and KAT was out. JMac played substantial minutes that game, often alongside DLO, and was again pivotal to the Wolves win in what might have been an even more impressive win than the victory over the Clippers. That was an example of how good this team can be with DLO playing if he's used the right way, plays the right way and has another PG like JMac to facilitate better ball movement.

I'm not optimistic about this team going forward with KAT and DLO as the two pillars, but given the investment already made, this organization has to fully exhaust that possibility before moving KAT. If they can get a good deal for DLO yet this season or before next season, they should do it. But we should stick with KAT until the end of next season and see what happens with or without DLO. KAT will be just as valuable in the trade market then as he is now, if not more so.

Lip, I'm not Q. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. You seem to be contradicting yourself. On the one hand you're convinced KAT and DLO can't be our two pillars, but on the other you leave open the possibility of getting to the Western Conference semifinals. Those two viewpoints don't mesh. You were right on the first point and should have left it at that.

If we wait until the end of next season to move KAT, here is the fallout:

1) I'd be very surprised if KAT doesn't force his way out before that

2) We all age 2 more years while the losses pile up

3) We age another 3 years while our assets from the KAT trade evolve into NBA players

My point is we are hosed right now and we don't have any options to remedy that. We would suck without KAT and we suck with him. DLO's value is lower than whale shit right now, and no one is going to be as dumb as Rosas was in dealing for him. His contract is going to be an albatross for years to come. Trading KAT is a really bad reality, but it's the only way for this franchise to change course.

Cool - I thought for sure you were Q. :) Sorry about that. I'm not contradicting myself. I'm simply acknowledging that you and I could be wrong about the KAT/DLO pairing. Yes, Cam might be right on this one. :) My points is that there's no rush to deal KAT. I'm willing to wait until he tells management he wants out and see if this thing can be salvaged without dealing KAT. To me, its' worth waiting even if the odds of significantly improvement and making the playoffs next season are remote because the cost of waiting is minimal.

The odds of landing another player of KAT's caliber are pretty remote regardless of how many draft picks we have. I think that means giving every chance possible for success with KAT here before we consider trading him, which means giving more time to see if you and I turn out to be wrong about the KAT/DLO pairing or if some of our other young players improve enough to move the needle significantly. Or maybe there's a trade or free agent acquisition that could move the needle. There's simply no compelling reason not to wait. KAT's not going anywhere in the meantime and, having recently turned 25, his value isn't going to decline over the next 12-18 months.

There are no signs or evidence that KAT is pushing to get out of here. And there's no telling when or even if that will happen. KAT has a sentimental attachment to Ryan and DLO is his close friend. Moreover, this season is an anomalous one with Covid, especially as it relates to KAT. So I don't see him demanding a trade until after next season or perhaps late next season at the earliest. If he starts pushing for a trade late next season, then the Wolves might need to consider dealing him at that point, but there's no rush. Again, my preference would be to deal DLO this season, but I recognize there's a risk that doing so would alienate KAT and cause him to want out of here sooner rather than later. That's a risk I'd be willing to take if we could get adequate value in return. Otherwise, we need to try to make this work with both KAT and DLO. I'm not optimistic about the outcome, but I recognize I could be wrong and I don't see any reason to not to wait until at least late next season before we consider dealing KAT.

I got a question to both of you and I really dont have a great answer, I'm just curious.

If for some miracle again the Wolves win the lottery. Would you go all in on trying to add an All NBA talent next to Kat even though it might cost us our future. Would you trade, Beasley, Edwards, Hernangomez #1 pick and our 2024 unprotected 1st for a player like Beal?

If you say you would do that, I think you should try and keep Kat, if you wouldn't then I think you should trade Kat.

It all comes down to what you think Kat is. What is a team of:

Dlo/Rubio
Beal/Culver
Okogie/..... (layman)
Hernangomez/McDaniels
Towns/Naz
Plus other small additions. What is that team? Is that team a contender, is that team a team that can win a playoff series, are they one and done are they even a playoff team.

If you think that team isn't a top 4 team in the west I think you need to trade Kat at the end of the season and try and recoup assets because a "big 3" of Kat/Dlo/Beal are probably highest upside in what the Wolves can do in the years left with Kat

Good question Kek. It's a definite playoff team, but I'm not sure if it's top 4. It could be if McDaniels develops as we hope. If Rosas had managed to get Garland last year as planned, I'd say Garland, Beal, And KAT would be enough to get us in that top 4.