Jim Pete unloads on Thibs in emotional podcast

[thedoper]

It's fair to look at Thibs accomplishments and point out that there were huge positives he brought to this franchise. The problem was always more the structure of the job than the individual, which again puts more of the spotlight on Taylor than Thibs. Someone with Thibs personality never should have been both head of basketball and coach. To do both you would need a wider skill set than what Thibs was endowed with. The positions by nature are at opposition, if you put someone with little control of their emotions in that role, you will get psychizophrenia.

[Wolvesfan21]

All the constant bitching about Thibodeau's personality and the style in which he conducts himself is over the top, in my opinion. I get that he rubs some people the wrong way. I get that he might not be the easiest to work with or work for. What can not be dismissed is that the Wolves won 47 games last year -- 2.0 GB of the third overall seed -- and made the playoffs in the Western Conference. That's something that hadn't been done in 14 years by a combination of seven different head coaches. So, complain and talk about how "horrendous" Thibodeau was in Minnesota, but he is responsible for getting this franchise headed back in the right direction. Not to mention his 97-107 (47.5 W%) record over two-and-a-half seasons is better than every coach since Flip Saunders and the glory days of MVP Kevin Garnett. He's not a great head coach [anymore], and he's flawed in some of his schematic ideologies, but dammit, he was getting the job done and proving that. The Wolves were 66-56 (54.1 W%) under Thibs since the start of the 2017-18 season.

Argue that his basketball philosophy didn't fully showcase his best players. I'll buy some of that. Argue that his defensive chops were lacking in Minnesota. I'll buy some of that as well. But the argument being "he's hated and people don't like him so he's deserving of termination" is soft. And nobody is softer than the owner who sits atop of this whole circus.

Could you work for Thibs? The constant yelling, moaning, negative bitching. Would you not tone him out and hate being there? I would. How are you going to be productive and your best when you hate being there? Not saying this for every player, some guys can deal with it. Maybe it even helps them Others couldn't. Shouldn't a coaches job be to get the players to be their best? You have to be flexible with different personalities and people.

Then we have Jimmy, who asked for a trade because KAT was thought of as the better player. Was higher paid. Butler blew up the team in Chicago, So did Thibs. So we brought in a whacko in Thibs with his sidekick Butler. Who by the way said in an interview he "initially" hated Thibs too. Then rumors was he slept with KAT's girlfriend. WTF.

The coaches were polled two years ago who the best player was to start a franchise with. KAT overwhelming won the vote. Not only that Wiggins and LaVine showed great promise as mid 20 point scorers. This team wasn't in shambles. It was ready to go, the only way to go was up. And sneaking into the 8th seed then getting demolished by the Rockets wasn't a success.

Anyone defending Thibs as a success story needs to get their head examined.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I think Wolves' players are showing a lot of class and restraint in not unloading on Thibs, but some of the positive comments they are making about Ryan also serve as veiled criticisms of Thibs IMO. KAT last night: "(Saunders) did an absolute amazing job. Got to give a lot of credit to him. He made a lot of great moves. This loss is on us as players. We didn't come out and execute the way we needed to". Unusual comments after a loss, but meaningful I think. By the way, I don't necessarily agree...Ryan is clearly trying to figure things out, and did some things last night that had me scratching my head. But KAT's comment tells me that our most important player is clearly on board with Ryan as coach, and that can't be considered anything other than a good thing.

[Monster]

I think Wolves' players are showing a lot of class and restraint in not unloading on Thibs, but some of the positive comments they are making about Ryan also serve as veiled criticisms of Thibs IMO. KAT last night: "(Saunders) did an absolute amazing job. Got to give a lot of credit to him. He made a lot of great moves. This loss is on us as players. We didn't come out and execute the way we needed to". Unusual comments after a loss, but meaningful I think. By the way, I don't necessarily agree...Ryan is clearly trying to figure things out, and did some things last night that had me scratching my head. But KAT's comment tells me that our most important player is clearly on board with Ryan as coach, and that can't be considered anything other than a good thing.

Saying positive things about the new coach when another one is fired is kinda like the player that goes into surgury and it comes back...successful!!!...except unfortunately we find out later not for Shariff Floyd. I'm not discounting the positives players are saying but I would not get too overwhelmed comparing that to what they would say about Thibs. Keep in mind Ryan called and talked to Thibs it's not like everyone hated the guy.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I think Wolves' players are showing a lot of class and restraint in not unloading on Thibs, but some of the positive comments they are making about Ryan also serve as veiled criticisms of Thibs IMO. KAT last night: "(Saunders) did an absolute amazing job. Got to give a lot of credit to him. He made a lot of great moves. This loss is on us as players. We didn't come out and execute the way we needed to". Unusual comments after a loss, but meaningful I think. By the way, I don't necessarily agree...Ryan is clearly trying to figure things out, and did some things last night that had me scratching my head. But KAT's comment tells me that our most important player is clearly on board with Ryan as coach, and that can't be considered anything other than a good thing.

Saying positive things about the new coach when another one is fired is kinda like the player that goes into surgury and it comes back...successful!!!...except unfortunately we find out later not for Shariff Floyd. I'm not discounting the positives players are saying but I would not get too overwhelmed comparing that to what they would say about Thibs. Keep in mind Ryan called and talked to Thibs it's not like everyone hated the guy.

Fair comment. And I'm not saying anyone hated Thibs...I never met the guy, but people I know who did told me he was a good guy. But it's clear to me that there were players who hated playing for Thibs and clearly there were a lot of fans who hated the way he coached, and that's a reason for optimism going forward.

[Monster]

I think a significant failure of Thibs and Glen AND the hiring firm was hiring Layden who other than probably being more even keel than Thibs and had all the experience and general knowledge needed to help run the franchise he wasn't the compliment that Thibs needed. They needed a guy with some personality some persona who was a better communicator. Maybe Thibs would never have let that person do their job well which is likely BUT again that's another failing of the whole thing. I think there is some blame to go around obviously Thibs should get the most blame. Thibs never really fit the culture that Glen wanted. I think both Thibs and Glen missunderstood this and likely felt to positive about the future and all the things that were going to come to fully realize the partnership. It's worth mentioning again that Glen while he needed to do what he needed to do had lost his friend coach and executive a few months earlier and then pretty recently fired a guy in Sam Mitchell who he obviously had quite the affinity for. There is a human element to all this that sometimes gets forgotten. It's been exactly a year ago today that I had to put down the last of our 3 cats (lost them all in less than 11 months) I'm still really not over that and...while they were important to me they don't compare to what Flip meant to Glen and the organization. This decision was being made while people were grieving.

I do think it's more difficult to pair a coach and excecutive than some people really think about. There is personalities basic basketball concepts etc. they don't have to agree on everything but I think if you end up with a couple fundamental things you disagree on and can't get past that it's gonna be a pretty big problem. It's gonna be a challenge to get this next hire right whether the calculation includes Ryan Saunders as the head coach or not. I find it interesting all the NFL teams seeming to try and find the next stud young guy when quite frankly there are some pretty capable coaches that would likely help these teams take the next step. Hopefully the Wolves and Glen have learned from some of the past. If Ryan was retained I have no clue who I would want to be the guy running things.

[Wolvesfan21]

I think Wolves' players are showing a lot of class and restraint in not unloading on Thibs, but some of the positive comments they are making about Ryan also serve as veiled criticisms of Thibs IMO. KAT last night: "(Saunders) did an absolute amazing job. Got to give a lot of credit to him. He made a lot of great moves. This loss is on us as players. We didn't come out and execute the way we needed to". Unusual comments after a loss, but meaningful I think. By the way, I don't necessarily agree...Ryan is clearly trying to figure things out, and did some things last night that had me scratching my head. But KAT's comment tells me that our most important player is clearly on board with Ryan as coach, and that can't be considered anything other than a good thing.

Saying positive things about the new coach when another one is fired is kinda like the player that goes into surgury and it comes back...successful!!!...except unfortunately we find out later not for Shariff Floyd. I'm not discounting the positives players are saying but I would not get too overwhelmed comparing that to what they would say about Thibs. Keep in mind Ryan called and talked to Thibs it's not like everyone hated the guy.

It could be more like a botched surgery, then when you get it done correctly saying, hey I can walk/see/my breast implant doesn't leak! What a great surgeon!

I'm sure some of Thibs X's and O's are solid. You don't spend that much time coaching in the NBA without some success. But you can't ignore the evidence in Chicago that came out and from Jim Pete. Also it's not smart to bash your old head coach. Kind of classless and useless.

[Lipoli390]

I think a significant failure of Thibs and Glen AND the hiring firm was hiring Layden who other than probably being more even keel than Thibs and had all the experience and general knowledge needed to help run the franchise he wasn't the compliment that Thibs needed. They needed a guy with some personality some persona who was a better communicator. Maybe Thibs would never have let that person do their job well which is likely BUT again that's another failing of the whole thing. I think there is some blame to go around obviously Thibs should get the most blame. Thibs never really fit the culture that Glen wanted. I think both Thibs and Glen missunderstood this and likely felt to positive about the future and all the things that were going to come to fully realize the partnership. It's worth mentioning again that Glen while he needed to do what he needed to do had lost his friend coach and executive a few months earlier and then pretty recently fired a guy in Sam Mitchell who he obviously had quite the affinity for. There is a human element to all this that sometimes gets forgotten. It's been exactly a year ago today that I had to put down the last of our 3 cats (lost them all in less than 11 months) I'm still really not over that and...while they were important to me they don't compare to what Flip meant to Glen and the organization. This decision was being made while people were grieving.

I do think it's more difficult to pair a coach and excecutive than some people really think about. There is personalities basic basketball concepts etc. they don't have to agree on everything but I think if you end up with a couple fundamental things you disagree on and can't get past that it's gonna be a pretty big problem. It's gonna be a challenge to get this next hire right whether the calculation includes Ryan Saunders as the head coach or not. I find it interesting all the NFL teams seeming to try and find the next stud young guy when quite frankly there are some pretty capable coaches that would likely help these teams take the next step. Hopefully the Wolves and Glen have learned from some of the past. If Ryan was retained I have no clue who I would want to be the guy running things.

Monster - What I've heard from people inside the organization is that Thibodeau wouldn't let Layden do anything other than be his gopher - making calls and gathering information. So it wouldn't have mattered who was paired with Thibodeau. In fact, Layden was perhaps the perfect match because he's such a low-key beta personality. Thibs isn't misunderstood. He's a pathological control freak with an antiquated approach to coaching. There's no sugar-coating what Thibodeau was -- not just here but in Chicago. Are there worse head coaches than Thibodeau? Of course. But he's not particularly good either. And when you alienate and mistreat lots of those around you while failing to build relationships, you can't get by being mediocre. And even if Thibodeau treated people, including his players better, a mediocre head coach isn't good enough if you want the Wolves to be anything more than mediocre.

I agree with you about the human element when it comes to Glen's hiring decision. That's a great point. Flip was like a son to Glen and Flip's passing was devastating to him. But ultimately, Glen is going to have to make better judgments than he's been making - whether it was hiring David Kahn or Tom Thibodeau.

[Monster]

I think a significant failure of Thibs and Glen AND the hiring firm was hiring Layden who other than probably being more even keel than Thibs and had all the experience and general knowledge needed to help run the franchise he wasn't the compliment that Thibs needed. They needed a guy with some personality some persona who was a better communicator. Maybe Thibs would never have let that person do their job well which is likely BUT again that's another failing of the whole thing. I think there is some blame to go around obviously Thibs should get the most blame. Thibs never really fit the culture that Glen wanted. I think both Thibs and Glen missunderstood this and likely felt to positive about the future and all the things that were going to come to fully realize the partnership. It's worth mentioning again that Glen while he needed to do what he needed to do had lost his friend coach and executive a few months earlier and then pretty recently fired a guy in Sam Mitchell who he obviously had quite the affinity for. There is a human element to all this that sometimes gets forgotten. It's been exactly a year ago today that I had to put down the last of our 3 cats (lost them all in less than 11 months) I'm still really not over that and...while they were important to me they don't compare to what Flip meant to Glen and the organization. This decision was being made while people were grieving.

I do think it's more difficult to pair a coach and excecutive than some people really think about. There is personalities basic basketball concepts etc. they don't have to agree on everything but I think if you end up with a couple fundamental things you disagree on and can't get past that it's gonna be a pretty big problem. It's gonna be a challenge to get this next hire right whether the calculation includes Ryan Saunders as the head coach or not. I find it interesting all the NFL teams seeming to try and find the next stud young guy when quite frankly there are some pretty capable coaches that would likely help these teams take the next step. Hopefully the Wolves and Glen have learned from some of the past. If Ryan was retained I have no clue who I would want to be the guy running things.

Monster - What I've heard from people inside the organization is that Thibodeau wouldn't let Layden do anything other than be his gopher - making calls and gathering information. So it wouldn't have mattered who was paired with Thibodeau. In fact, Layden was perhaps the perfect match because he's such a low-key beta personality. Thibs isn't misunderstood. He's a pathological control freak with an antiquated approach to coaching. There's no sugar-coating what Thibodeau was -- not just here but in Chicago. Are there worse head coaches than Thibodeau? Of course. But he's not particularly good either. And when you alienate and mistreat lots of those around you while failing to build relationships, you can't get by being mediocre. And even if Thibodeau treated people, including his players better, a mediocre head coach isn't good enough if you want the Wolves to be anything more than mediocre.

I agree with you about the human element when it comes to Glen's hiring decision. That's a great point. Flip was like a son to Glen and Flip's passing was devastating to him. But ultimately, Glen is going to have to make better judgments than he's been making - whether it was hiring David Kahn or Tom Thibodeau.

Lip real talk here are you saying Layden basically didn't do anything except basically be a secretary? What is the feeling about Layden from these people in the organization? Do they dislike him also? Is it true he was in lock step with Thibs and Jon K has reported or did Layden not really have any choice? Ok...i'll Hang up and listen lol

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I think Wolves' players are showing a lot of class and restraint in not unloading on Thibs, but some of the positive comments they are making about Ryan also serve as veiled criticisms of Thibs IMO. KAT last night: "(Saunders) did an absolute amazing job. Got to give a lot of credit to him. He made a lot of great moves. This loss is on us as players. We didn't come out and execute the way we needed to". Unusual comments after a loss, but meaningful I think. By the way, I don't necessarily agree...Ryan is clearly trying to figure things out, and did some things last night that had me scratching my head. But KAT's comment tells me that our most important player is clearly on board with Ryan as coach, and that can't be considered anything other than a good thing.

Huh!? How many times has Towns, Wiggins, Gibson, etc. said that the players lost the game and that Thibs had them prepared blah blah. In what way is that an unusual comment? Your constant search for the most minimal things to criticize someone over have grown old with me. You did it plenty with Kevin Love and Tom Thibodeau. Who will be your next target?