Wolves wreck the Raptors GDT

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"Jimmy Butler shoots too much."

He's posting a .589 TS%, which is in that elite category for volume scorers.

"Andrew Wiggins needs to be more involved in the offense."

But the guy owns a .506 TS% on 16 FGA's per game, which actually leads the Wolves' team.

This isn't another post looking to spark a debate about Wiggins, I promise, but I think it should show that our most efficient scorers -- Butler and Karl-Anthony Towns -- are deserving of even more shots. Good things happen when they have the rock.

And while Wiggins has been at least better as of late, I think we'd all rather see him taking less shots overall but drawing more fouls while the other two increase their attempts.

[Wolvesfan21]

I'm more or less talking about when Butler drives 1 on 4 to the rim, yes he usually gets the call, but at the same time I would like to see a pass to the open players. Even the best players would make the right basketball play late in games. MJ to Kerr, LeBron to whoever. Kobe to Horry. Can't play hero ball all the time and make it work.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'll mildly point out that this is another game where a legitimate scoring option off the bench could have made a difference -- or been the difference, actually. I know Dieng scored 14 in this one, but that's not what we expect from him. Even a Jordan Clarkson could have filled it up, provided another punch.

It's all the things we've discussed already plus having that safety net of "one of our guys doesn't have it going, good thing we have ____." Most good teams have that from what I can see. We don't. Sorry, Jamal Crawford.

I agree, Cam. We can't continue to depend soley on Crawford as our one scorer off the bench. A Bazemore or Clarkson definitely would have made a material difference tonight.

Saying is just masking the larger problem like Lip pointed out. I'll make a prediction, Jim Pete will be looking for a new job next year. He's becoming more and more out spoken with criticism of players, style of play and even coaching decision. I personally appreciate his candidness, some homers may not, it might be because I agree with everything he is saying.

I mentioned this last game against Toronto, but his praise of the changes the Raptors made to a more modern style, developing an identify for the bench, etc. seem almost like a backhanded shot at Tibs and the wolves. Tibs will have him fired is my prediction.

1. Thibodeau literally has zero power in the broadcasting department.

2. I highly, highly doubt Thibodeau would go out of his way to get someone fired for doing their job, even if it involves criticism of himself. I don't think that's his character.

I'm guessing (and many other markets can be used as examples) that a very slanted pro-hometown rube bias is preferred -- definitely by the team and probably by the vast majority of fans.

I disagree vehemently with that approach. I find it insulting. Just like I used to find it insulting when Jim Peterson would toss out platitudes comparing Al Jefferson to Hakeem Olajuwon early in his broadcasting career. Heck, I used to go to the ESPN version of this forum ripping Peterson after most games for it.

He's improved a lot since then. I think he and Benz are very good. Some analysis from an ex-player. Some Xs and Os as a coach. And solid play-by-play stuff.

I can see the organization trying to stamp down some of the criticism though. I think most organizations would take the same approach. (even if I don't agree with it)

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'm more or less talking about when Butler drives 1 on 4 to the rim, yes he usually gets the call, but at the same time I would like to see a pass to the open players. Even the best players would make the right basketball play late in games. MJ to Kerr, LeBron to whoever. Kobe to Horry. Can't play hero ball all the time and make it work.

Kobe to Horry? I remember Vlade Divac (Kings) tapping Kobe's hero ball missed shot out to Horry in 2002 for that legendary game winner... but I don't remember many moments from Bryant playing non-hero ball.

I could be wrong. But I genuinely believe he was one of the most selfish players in NBA history. At the very least, I wouldn't hold him up as an example of a guy who actively didn't try to play hero ball. Hero ball (and the overwhelming negative stats) is part of his NBA legacy, for good or bad.

Sorry for the mini-rant.

[Wolvesfan21]

I'm more or less talking about when Butler drives 1 on 4 to the rim, yes he usually gets the call, but at the same time I would like to see a pass to the open players. Even the best players would make the right basketball play late in games. MJ to Kerr, LeBron to whoever. Kobe to Horry. Can't play hero ball all the time and make it work.

Kobe to Horry? I remember Vlade Divac (Kings) tapping Kobe's hero ball missed shot out to Horry in 2002 for that legendary game winner... but I don't remember many moments from Bryant playing non-hero ball.

I could be wrong. But I genuinely believe he was one of the most selfish players in NBA history. At the very least, I wouldn't hold him up as an example of a guy who actively didn't try to play hero ball. Hero ball (and the overwhelming negative stats) is part of his NBA legacy, for good or bad.

Sorry for the mini-rant.

You're right. Kobe only learned to pass later in his career. I just remember Horry hitting multiple game winners, maybe Kobe passed once?

Never the less, I'm not a huge proponent of hero ball, especially late in the game. LeBron and MJ passed just as much as they shot.

[Coolbreeze44]

"Jimmy Butler shoots too much."

He's posting a .589 TS%, which is in that elite category for volume scorers.

"Andrew Wiggins needs to be more involved in the offense."

But the guy owns a .506 TS% on 16 FGA's per game, which actually leads the Wolves' team.

This isn't another post looking to spark a debate about Wiggins, I promise, but I think it should show that our most efficient scorers -- Butler and Karl-Anthony Towns -- are deserving of even more shots. Good things happen when they have the rock.

And while Wiggins has been at least better as of late, I think we'd all rather see him taking less shots overall but drawing more fouls while the other two increase their attempts.

A couple things: When Wig touches the ball he is generally looking for his shot. You can argue whether that's a good thing or not, but if he wouldn't he would hardly be involved in the offense at all. We don't run to take advantage of his biggest strength. Secondly, he gets to play several minutes of each game without KAT or Butler on the floor. He gets a lot of his shots during those intervals. He along with Crawford.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'm more or less talking about when Butler drives 1 on 4 to the rim, yes he usually gets the call, but at the same time I would like to see a pass to the open players. Even the best players would make the right basketball play late in games. MJ to Kerr, LeBron to whoever. Kobe to Horry. Can't play hero ball all the time and make it work.

Kobe to Horry? I remember Vlade Divac (Kings) tapping Kobe's hero ball missed shot out to Horry in 2002 for that legendary game winner... but I don't remember many moments from Bryant playing non-hero ball.

I could be wrong. But I genuinely believe he was one of the most selfish players in NBA history. At the very least, I wouldn't hold him up as an example of a guy who actively didn't try to play hero ball. Hero ball (and the overwhelming negative stats) is part of his NBA legacy, for good or bad.

Sorry for the mini-rant.

You're right. Kobe only learned to pass later in his career. I just remember Horry hitting multiple game winners, maybe Kobe passed once?

Never the less, I'm not a huge proponent of hero ball, especially late in the game. LeBron and MJ passed just as much as they shot.

I'm still gonna disagree with you.

Kobe Bryant was truly a gifted passer... when he wanted to be. But he never shifted away from the hero ball style. Sure, he might have passed to a teammate here and there... but he is largely regarded as the biggest hero ball chucker of all time.

Look at this smaller sample from 2003 - 2009... which largely coincided with Bryant's "prime" years:

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Bryant took the most last-second shots... but shot one of the lowest percentages (25%). But look even closer. He had only ONE assist!

Ironically, a guy known as "Mr. Big Shot" was even worse, shooting only 6 - 37 (16%). Amazing how narratives look different when stats are brought into the mix. To his credit, Billups was 18-19 on free throws and added 6 assists.

[Wolvesfan21]

I'm more or less talking about when Butler drives 1 on 4 to the rim, yes he usually gets the call, but at the same time I would like to see a pass to the open players. Even the best players would make the right basketball play late in games. MJ to Kerr, LeBron to whoever. Kobe to Horry. Can't play hero ball all the time and make it work.

Kobe to Horry? I remember Vlade Divac (Kings) tapping Kobe's hero ball missed shot out to Horry in 2002 for that legendary game winner... but I don't remember many moments from Bryant playing non-hero ball.

I could be wrong. But I genuinely believe he was one of the most selfish players in NBA history. At the very least, I wouldn't hold him up as an example of a guy who actively didn't try to play hero ball. Hero ball (and the overwhelming negative stats) is part of his NBA legacy, for good or bad.

Sorry for the mini-rant.

You're right. Kobe only learned to pass later in his career. I just remember Horry hitting multiple game winners, maybe Kobe passed once?

Never the less, I'm not a huge proponent of hero ball, especially late in the game. LeBron and MJ passed just as much as they shot.

I'm still gonna disagree with you.

Kobe Bryant was truly a gifted passer... when he wanted to be. But he never shifted away from the hero ball style. Sure, he might have passed to a teammate here and there... but he is largely regarded as the biggest hero ball chucker of all time.

Look at this smaller sample from 2003 - 2009... which largely coincided with Bryant's "prime" years:


http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Bryant took the most last-second shots... but shot one of the lowest percentages (25%). But look even closer. He had only ONE assist!

Ironically, a guy known as "Mr. Big Shot" was even worse, shooting only 6 - 37 (16%). Amazing how narratives look different when stats are brought into the mix. To his credit, Billups was 18-19 on free throws and added 6 assists.

Yeah, I said later in his career like 2012-2014. Maybe he still took last second shots, but I'm willing to bet his assists per 36 went up as he got older.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'm still gonna disagree with you.

Kobe Bryant was truly a gifted passer... when he wanted to be. But he never shifted away from the hero ball style. Sure, he might have passed to a teammate here and there... but he is largely regarded as the biggest hero ball chucker of all time.

Look at this smaller sample from 2003 - 2009... which largely coincided with Bryant's "prime" years:


http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Bryant took the most last-second shots... but shot one of the lowest percentages (25%). But look even closer. He had only ONE assist!

Ironically, a guy known as "Mr. Big Shot" was even worse, shooting only 6 - 37 (16%). Amazing how narratives look different when stats are brought into the mix. To his credit, Billups was 18-19 on free throws and added 6 assists.

Yeah, I said later in his career like 2012-2014. Maybe he still took last second shots, but I'm willing to bet his assists per 36 went up as he got older.

Yes. But... No.

2011 -- 5.0 assists per 36
2012 -- 4.3
2013 -- 5.6
2014 -- injured
2015 -- 5.9
2016 -- 3.6

He averaged 21+ shots per 36 minutes in 4 of those seasons. He only shot 21+ times per 36 minutes one other season in his career... the 2006 season when he took 27 shots per game and averaged 35 ppg.

[Wolvesfan21]

I'm still gonna disagree with you.

Kobe Bryant was truly a gifted passer... when he wanted to be. But he never shifted away from the hero ball style. Sure, he might have passed to a teammate here and there... but he is largely regarded as the biggest hero ball chucker of all time.

Look at this smaller sample from 2003 - 2009... which largely coincided with Bryant's "prime" years:


http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Bryant took the most last-second shots... but shot one of the lowest percentages (25%). But look even closer. He had only ONE assist!

Ironically, a guy known as "Mr. Big Shot" was even worse, shooting only 6 - 37 (16%). Amazing how narratives look different when stats are brought into the mix. To his credit, Billups was 18-19 on free throws and added 6 assists.

Yeah, I said later in his career like 2012-2014. Maybe he still took last second shots, but I'm willing to bet his assists per 36 went up as he got older.

Yes. But... No.

2011 -- 5.0 assists per 36
2012 -- 4.3
2013 -- 5.6
2014 -- injured
2015 -- 5.9
2016 -- 3.6

He averaged 21+ shots per 36 minutes in 4 of those seasons. He only shot 21+ times per 36 minutes one other season in his career... the 2006 season when he took 27 shots per game and averaged 35 ppg.

So they went up a tad as his experience was gained, minus his last year when he went to full chuck mode for "fun" i suppose.

2013 and 2015 were his highest assist rate of his career. Kobe was a great passer, I'm not sure if you are debating that or what.