thedoper wrote:I don't think any of these trades are close to realistic. If I were to make any trade it would be to free up cap space to sign a legit Free agent next year. I'd look to move Rubio at the deadline and throw in Bazz if necessary to Cleveland (or a similar team needing a back up PG) for their first next year and an expiring contract. If we could get Rubio and Pek off the books next year we're going to have a little extra dough for a nice piece.
I get this viewpoint too. I just don't think our FO and ownership are wanting to go that route. I'd support the addition of Serge Ibaka, though. Even if he is going to get something close to $20M annually.
Ibaka would make sense from a stylistic point of view but there's always older vets who you can get on shorter deals too. I love what Utah did this year, even though you risk some injury they're going to get some good minutes out of their vets they added. We need some vets that can play. We need to look at similar options to round out this team and add what we lack, composure.
thedoper wrote:I don't think any of these trades are close to realistic. If I were to make any trade it would be to free up cap space to sign a legit Free agent next year. I'd look to move Rubio at the deadline and throw in Bazz if necessary to Cleveland (or a similar team needing a back up PG) for their first next year and an expiring contract. If we could get Rubio and Pek off the books next year we're going to have a little extra dough for a nice piece.
I get this viewpoint too. I just don't think our FO and ownership are wanting to go that route. I'd support the addition of Serge Ibaka, though. Even if he is going to get something close to $20M annually.
Ibaka would make sense from a stylistic point of view but there's always older vets who you can get on shorter deals too. I love what Utah did this year, even though you risk some injury they're going to get some good minutes out of their vets they added. We need some vets that can play. We need to look at similar options to round out this team and add what we lack, composure.
I'll say it again, but you get what you pay for. We were bargain bin shoppers this off-season and the result has been exactly that -- cheap. Hopefully that changes, but more often than not, you have to pay handsomely for ready-to-win talent.
I'll also say that adding Ibaka -- or Paul Millsap or Derrick Favors after 2018, for instance -- would upgrade our starting lineup and our bench by delegating Dieng to that unit.
khans2k5 wrote:It's probably not going to be popular, but what about Bazz for Robert Covington or Hollis Thompson. Covington is having a down year, but I always thought he was a poor man's Kris Middleton and Hollis Thompson is a consistent 39% 3pt shooter. Both I think would complement our roster better than Bazz. Philly could use another scorer with Embiid and they have the money to re-sign Bazz if they want to.
This trade certainly will not be popular in Philly.
Why? They have no scoring outside of Embiid and that's Bazz's specialty. Embiid is the only guy over 13 PPG on their team. Bazz would fill a huge hole for them.
They have Okafor who's miles better scorer than Bazz. Simmons will score some for them. Cov is their best perimeter defender, Hollis is their best shooter. They won't trade them for Bazz who they can sign in FA if they really want him.
1. Okafor is only averaging 11 PPG's as Embiid's backup. Hard to call that miles better than Bazz who has put up similar PPG's the last 2 years to this one and Bazz actually has the ability to play next to Embiid.
2. Getting Bazz's RFA rights means they don't have to overpay him to get him which they would otherwise have to do to keep us from matching. It also means they can offer him a cheaper 5 year deal if they want versus an overpriced 4 year deal to pry him away from us.
3. Thompson and Covington aren't great pieces themselves, they just each offer a skill a team like us could use whereas on that team they do virtually nothing that helps them win games because they only have 1 guy to support. Philly flat out needs a higher ceiling than them and Bazz has it.
4. Your argument that they can just wait and sign him in the off season applies to us and Thompson as well. They wouldn't be keeping all 3 because there isn't enough playing time to go around. Why wouldn't you rather see Bazz on your team for half a year so you can make an educated decision on his next deal rather than blindly hoping he fits what you need while still losing Thompson in the process?
It's low risk for both sides because none of the pieces are significant, but can help each team get better moving forward than they can help their current teams now.
thedoper wrote:I don't think any of these trades are close to realistic. If I were to make any trade it would be to free up cap space to sign a legit Free agent next year. I'd look to move Rubio at the deadline and throw in Bazz if necessary to Cleveland (or a similar team needing a back up PG) for their first next year and an expiring contract. If we could get Rubio and Pek off the books next year we're going to have a little extra dough for a nice piece.
I get this viewpoint too. I just don't think our FO and ownership are wanting to go that route. I'd support the addition of Serge Ibaka, though. Even if he is going to get something close to $20M annually.
Ibaka would make sense from a stylistic point of view but there's always older vets who you can get on shorter deals too. I love what Utah did this year, even though you risk some injury they're going to get some good minutes out of their vets they added. We need some vets that can play. We need to look at similar options to round out this team and add what we lack, composure.
I'll say it again, but you get what you pay for. We were bargain bin shoppers this off-season and the result has been exactly that -- cheap. Hopefully that changes, but more often than not, you have to pay handsomely for ready-to-win talent.
I'll also say that adding Ibaka -- or Paul Millsap or Derrick Favors after 2018, for instance -- would upgrade our starting lineup and our bench by delegating Dieng to that unit.
We're Minnesota coming off yet another bottom 5 finish. What all-stars were aching to come here? We weren't linked to any last off-season. Spending last off season just would have landed us an overpaid piece not pushing the needle enough. Ibaka, Favors, Millsap. Why on earth would they sign here and don't say because of our potential because this last off season showed that meant jack shit for really good players considering coming here? Good players gravitate towards winners, not losers and we're not winners yet.
thedoper wrote:I don't think any of these trades are close to realistic. If I were to make any trade it would be to free up cap space to sign a legit Free agent next year. I'd look to move Rubio at the deadline and throw in Bazz if necessary to Cleveland (or a similar team needing a back up PG) for their first next year and an expiring contract. If we could get Rubio and Pek off the books next year we're going to have a little extra dough for a nice piece.
I get this viewpoint too. I just don't think our FO and ownership are wanting to go that route. I'd support the addition of Serge Ibaka, though. Even if he is going to get something close to $20M annually.
Ibaka would make sense from a stylistic point of view but there's always older vets who you can get on shorter deals too. I love what Utah did this year, even though you risk some injury they're going to get some good minutes out of their vets they added. We need some vets that can play. We need to look at similar options to round out this team and add what we lack, composure.
I'll say it again, but you get what you pay for. We were bargain bin shoppers this off-season and the result has been exactly that -- cheap. Hopefully that changes, but more often than not, you have to pay handsomely for ready-to-win talent.
I'll also say that adding Ibaka -- or Paul Millsap or Derrick Favors after 2018, for instance -- would upgrade our starting lineup and our bench by delegating Dieng to that unit.
We're Minnesota coming off yet another bottom 5 finish. What all-stars were aching to come here? We weren't linked to any last off-season. Spending last off season just would have landed us an overpaid piece not pushing the needle enough. Ibaka, Favors, Millsap. Why on earth would they sign here and don't say because of our potential because this last off season showed that meant jack shit for really good players considering coming here? Good players gravitate towards winners, not losers and we're not winners yet.
I can't disagree with your response. I guess what I wanted was more [reported] activity in pursuing legitimate difference-makers. The most we heard about was Pau Gasol and perhaps Luol Deng (we didn't want to give him that fourth year, reportedly). I would have liked to have seen our name in the running for Al Horford, and if he can be sold on the Boston Celtics, I think he could have been sold on the Minnesota Timberwolves despite the difference in W/L records. We have no way of knowing that and I acknowledge it's all speculation on my part.
I guess what bothers me is that this past summer was our best window of adding anyone significant via FA that could really help this team, and we ended up adding Cole Aldrich, Jordan Hill, and Brandon Rush. We got the bottom of the barrel. Even an Arron Afflalo or Joe Johnson would have been nice.
thedoper wrote:I don't think any of these trades are close to realistic. If I were to make any trade it would be to free up cap space to sign a legit Free agent next year. I'd look to move Rubio at the deadline and throw in Bazz if necessary to Cleveland (or a similar team needing a back up PG) for their first next year and an expiring contract. If we could get Rubio and Pek off the books next year we're going to have a little extra dough for a nice piece.
I get this viewpoint too. I just don't think our FO and ownership are wanting to go that route. I'd support the addition of Serge Ibaka, though. Even if he is going to get something close to $20M annually.
Ibaka would make sense from a stylistic point of view but there's always older vets who you can get on shorter deals too. I love what Utah did this year, even though you risk some injury they're going to get some good minutes out of their vets they added. We need some vets that can play. We need to look at similar options to round out this team and add what we lack, composure.
I'll say it again, but you get what you pay for. We were bargain bin shoppers this off-season and the result has been exactly that -- cheap. Hopefully that changes, but more often than not, you have to pay handsomely for ready-to-win talent.
I'll also say that adding Ibaka -- or Paul Millsap or Derrick Favors after 2018, for instance -- would upgrade our starting lineup and our bench by delegating Dieng to that unit.
We're Minnesota coming off yet another bottom 5 finish. What all-stars were aching to come here? We weren't linked to any last off-season. Spending last off season just would have landed us an overpaid piece not pushing the needle enough. Ibaka, Favors, Millsap. Why on earth would they sign here and don't say because of our potential because this last off season showed that meant jack shit for really good players considering coming here? Good players gravitate towards winners, not losers and we're not winners yet.
I can't disagree with your response. I guess what I wanted was more [reported] activity in pursuing legitimate difference-makers. The most we heard about was Pau Gasol and perhaps Luol Deng (we didn't want to give him that fourth year, reportedly). I would have liked to have seen our name in the running for Al Horford, and if he can be sold on the Boston Celtics, I think he could have been sold on the Minnesota Timberwolves despite the difference in W/L records. We have no way of knowing that and I acknowledge it's all speculation on my part.
I guess what bothers me is that this past summer was our best window of adding anyone significant via FA that could really help this team, and we ended up adding Cole Aldrich, Jordan Hill, and Brandon Rush. We got the bottom of the barrel. Even an Arron Afflalo or Joe Johnson would have been nice.
Part of the issue about this team turning the corner this season is it does make them look more appealing to some more legit FAs. They don't even have to make the playoffs if they get to 38 wins or something like that a good player could look at this team with Thibs and another lottery pick and the already young talent...and yeah.
Also I know where you are coming from Cam but you say you get what you pay for...that's not always true either. The Lakers paid a big chunk of money for Deng and is he worth that contract? Is Ibaka worth what the Magic gave up in a trade to get him? If this team is going to be good they need to be able to unearth some slid maybe even good players from guys that weren't supposed to me good. If that's bargain bin shopping fine. The good news is that Rush and Hill can be dumped for cap space after this year and Aldrich is going to be plenty useful he has shown that the last few games. Other teams have found nice players in deals or signing players other teams had given up on. People said Harkless getting 10 million a year from the Blazers was too much...based on his numbers this year so far damn He looks like a pretty good value. It's only 20 games but yeah. I'm certainly not against paying for a good FA but if this team does have to worry about Lux tax (and every team cares to some extent) then they need to be careful with their spending. Hopefully both good and bad we have a much better idea of what actually this team needs going forward.
I hope we are shopping everyone not named KAT, Wiggins, and LaVine. Dieng, Dunn, and Rubio have to be our best trading chips. The problem is they have little upside left at this point. We won't get a productive vet for them and likely wouldn't get a potential player either. Tough to see how we get better without growing from within.
As I see it if legit Free Agents went to Utah, they'll come to Minnesota too. We just have to understand where our niche is and be that much better in assessing the 2nd tier free agents.
I do think Thibs has been in full scale evaluation mode, which ultimately excites me. Maybe he didn't want to sign a free agent last summer to fully address the deficiencies in this team. Maybe he really is seeing if players can learn through hard times. It seems that Rush and Hill were nothing more than character guys for Thibs since he has no interest in playing them. I am still in the pro-Thibs camp so I am looking at this positively, but I feel like he is assessing and the team next year will include free agents and possible traded players who contribute.
thedoper wrote:As I see it if legit Free Agents went to Utah, they'll come to Minnesota too. We just have to understand where our niche is and be that much better in assessing the 2nd tier free agents.
I do think Thibs has been in full scale evaluation mode, which ultimately excites me. Maybe he didn't want to sign a free agent last summer to fully address the deficiencies in this team. Maybe he really is seeing if players can learn through hard times. It seems that Rush and Hill were nothing more than character guys for Thibs since he has no interest in playing them. I am still in the pro-Thibs camp so I am looking at this positively, but I feel like he is assessing and the team next year will include free agents and possible traded players who contribute.
I agree with basically all that you said and looks to be the way Thibs is handling the roster as he has it now. I will say that Thibs was obviously interested in bringing in a legit Vet they had a pretty good offer for Gasol but he picked the Spurs. They wanted to add a vet but on their terms which meant at a reasonable price and or length of contract. As for the vets he has this year Rush hasn't been healthy otherwise he clearly would be playing at least some so we will see what happens when he finally gets over that toe sprain. Guys like Bazz need to seize the opportunity and play relatively well to keep Rush from taking precious bench minutes away from them. I think a guy like Bazz Thibs is gonna keep giving a shot at playing well but Rush could easily get minutes here and there.
thedoper wrote:As I see it if legit Free Agents went to Utah, they'll come to Minnesota too. We just have to understand where our niche is and be that much better in assessing the 2nd tier free agents.
I do think Thibs has been in full scale evaluation mode, which ultimately excites me. Maybe he didn't want to sign a free agent last summer to fully address the deficiencies in this team. Maybe he really is seeing if players can learn through hard times. It seems that Rush and Hill were nothing more than character guys for Thibs since he has no interest in playing them. I am still in the pro-Thibs camp so I am looking at this positively, but I feel like he is assessing and the team next year will include free agents and possible traded players who contribute.
I think you're vastly underrating the importance of downhill skiing to the typical NBA player...Utah has a huge advantage over us ;-)
