CoolBreeze44 wrote:Most of you seem to be buying into the logic of the move. The question I ask is why? What has Martin done to suggest he deserves more time, and that the team will benefit from it? He has been flat out terrible so far this year.
Buying in? No, but I do see advantages in opening up floor spacing and that will happen in spite of Martin's slow start. Slow start or not teams are going to have to honor Martin far more than they ever did with Prince. Theoretically KAT will have more room to operate down low, Wiggins will have more driving lanes, and Rubio will have somebody who can shoot to pass to.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
Bazz gets more time and that could be a good thing, but he hasn't exactly been stellar either. The guy who needs a more substantial role is Zach, and I don't see how this accomplishes that.
Regarding Zach I believe his time is coming. I agree with those who see Martin being traded by the deadline with the exception being if the Wolves were truly challenging to make playoffs. So if this move only creates more space in the near term with Martin being traded and Zach eventually taking his place among the starters, great! If on the other hand this works, the team scores more, wins more, and is position to push for the playoffs while Zach continues to learn in a bench role, great!
I guess in the big picture I don't think we'll be looking back on this stretch of Wolves basketball in a couple of years and saying "if only Zach had been made the starter in place of Martin...". Just my $0.02, unadjusted for inflation.
Agreed (and inflation is near zero, so even if adjusted for inflation, it's still worth only 2-cents!).
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Most of you seem to be buying into the logic of the move. The question I ask is why? What has Martin done to suggest he deserves more time, and that the team will benefit from it? He has been flat out terrible so far this year.
Buying in? No, but I do see advantages in opening up floor spacing and that will happen in spite of Martin's slow start. Slow start or not teams are going to have to honor Martin far more than they ever did with Prince. Theoretically KAT will have more room to operate down low, Wiggins will have more driving lanes, and Rubio will have somebody who can shoot to pass to.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
Bazz gets more time and that could be a good thing, but he hasn't exactly been stellar either. The guy who needs a more substantial role is Zach, and I don't see how this accomplishes that.
Regarding Zach I believe his time is coming. I agree with those who see Martin being traded by the deadline with the exception being if the Wolves were truly challenging to make playoffs. So if this move only creates more space in the near term with Martin being traded and Zach eventually taking his place among the starters, great! If on the other hand this works, the team scores more, wins more, and is position to push for the playoffs while Zach continues to learn in a bench role, great!
I guess in the big picture I don't think we'll be looking back on this stretch of Wolves basketball in a couple of years and saying "if only Zach had been made the starter in place of Martin...". Just my $0.02, unadjusted for inflation.
Agreed (and inflation is near zero, so even if adjusted for inflation, it's still worth only 2-cents!).
Well that's a much better return than I was expecting!
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Most of you seem to be buying into the logic of the move. The question I ask is why? What has Martin done to suggest he deserves more time, and that the team will benefit from it? He has been flat out terrible so far this year.
Bazz gets more time and that could be a good thing, but he hasn't exactly been stellar either. The guy who needs a more substantial role is Zach, and I don't see how this accomplishes that.
Martin has played poorly this year, but he also has a 10-year track record that suggests it won't continue. And again, despite his struggles, he's no less efficient than Wiggins on offense. My guess is that he eventually breaks out of his slump. The question is what does this do to the team defense?
While I'm not necessarily on board with this move, I'm not all up in arms over it either. Zach will still get his minutes and ultimately Martin will be traded or let go.
Why do you have to keep going there? It's just a stupid, hollow argument. How about this? Let's keep Tay in the starting lineup and insert Martin over Wiggins. Since Martin is as good offensively as Wiggins and Tay gives us the defense Wiggins does nothing should change right? I just don't understand your obsession with poking holes in Andrew Wiggins.
What's the stupid, hollow argument I'm making? I just pointed out a fact. I am not at all suggesting that Wiggins should be displaced in the starting lineup as I believe we need him defensively as much if not more than we need him offensively. He's our best wing defender.
(by the way, if you think I just like to pick on the young guys, please refer to my commentary on KAT. It will make you blush).
I'm not saying you like to pick on the young guys. I'm saying you look to discredit Wiggins every chance you get. You have since the beginning of last year. For every metric you find that could somehow suggest Martin is as important to our offense as Wiggins, I'll show you 2 that don't. Finding a stat to back up your argument does not mean your argument is factual.
You have this strange obsession / agenda to be pessimistic as it pertains to Wiggins. I'm clearly not the most optimistic guy on this board, so I can understand a pessimistic viewpoint. I just don't understand it with Andrew. I get the feeling you're just waiting for Drew to fall short of expectations.
Am I the only one that thinks Wiggins is overrated defensively. At best he is the 3rd best defender on this team. Rubio and Towns seem to make much more of an impact then Wiggins.
bleedspeed177 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Wiggins is overrated defensively. At best he is the 3rd best defender on this team. Rubio and Towns seem to make much more of an impact then Wiggins.
He's not a dynamic defender, but he's pretty good. Takes on a lot of really good players and definitely holds his own. Hopefully the anticipation will come along and he can start getting some steals and easy baskets from it.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Most of you seem to be buying into the logic of the move. The question I ask is why? What has Martin done to suggest he deserves more time, and that the team will benefit from it? He has been flat out terrible so far this year.
Bazz gets more time and that could be a good thing, but he hasn't exactly been stellar either. The guy who needs a more substantial role is Zach, and I don't see how this accomplishes that.
Martin has played poorly this year, but he also has a 10-year track record that suggests it won't continue. And again, despite his struggles, he's no less efficient than Wiggins on offense. My guess is that he eventually breaks out of his slump. The question is what does this do to the team defense?
While I'm not necessarily on board with this move, I'm not all up in arms over it either. Zach will still get his minutes and ultimately Martin will be traded or let go.
Why do you have to keep going there? It's just a stupid, hollow argument. How about this? Let's keep Tay in the starting lineup and insert Martin over Wiggins. Since Martin is as good offensively as Wiggins and Tay gives us the defense Wiggins does nothing should change right? I just don't understand your obsession with poking holes in Andrew Wiggins.
What's the stupid, hollow argument I'm making? I just pointed out a fact. I am not at all suggesting that Wiggins should be displaced in the starting lineup as I believe we need him defensively as much if not more than we need him offensively. He's our best wing defender.
(by the way, if you think I just like to pick on the young guys, please refer to my commentary on KAT. It will make you blush).
I'm not saying you like to pick on the young guys. I'm saying you look to discredit Wiggins every chance you get. You have since the beginning of last year. For every metric you find that could somehow suggest Martin is as important to our offense as Wiggins, I'll show you 2 that don't. Finding a stat to back up your argument does not mean your argument is factual.
You have this strange obsession / agenda to be pessimistic as it pertains to Wiggins. I'm clearly not the most optimistic guy on this board, so I can understand a pessimistic viewpoint. I just don't understand it with Andrew. I get the feeling you're just waiting for Drew to fall short of expectations.
Well, that's the whole issue now isn't it? I have very high expectations of a former #1 draft pick. And while he has certainly made his fair share of individual superstar highlight-worthy plays, there are things about his game that still need a lot of improvement. Obviously he's still young and can continue to improve, but I'm disappointed in what appears to be very little improvement in his rebounding, handle, and 3-point shooting versus last year. I think defensively he's better and he was pretty decent last year, so kudos to him on that front.
KAT on the other hand is really putting up honest-to-goodness future superstar type numbers. Wiggins makes some breathtaking plays, but then you realize he needed a bunch of possessions to get his points or got out-rebounded by his matchup. Again, it's only Year 2, but I want to see even more out of the kid. I certainly don't want him to fail - that's a ridiculous assertion on your part.
Cool asks for reasons why Martin in the starting lineup makes any sense at all. Q gives him a reason pointing out Martin still has a certain amount of offensive efficiency and conpares it to Wiggins. Cool takes it as a dig on Wiggins. To me it seemed more like trying to point out Martin still has value offensively although he has struggled putting the ball in the hoop. Good times
