Q12543 wrote:I've felt all along that if the Wolves are serious about landing Simmons, they need to assume that he will be the exact same player he's been since he was a rookie. He's added literally nothing to his game and the same weaknesses exist.
My #1 fear if we land Simmons is that rather than him helping to change our defensive culture, our chronically poor culture changes him instead. I could easily see us scratching our heads at times wondering where the Philly version of Ben's defense went....
Patrick Beverley will be bringing the aggressiveness. No way can you go half ass when you goy a guy like that on defense. You need to step up to his level.
That's assuming he stays with us in a trade scenario. Also, while he helps, he can't be the lone guy that holds people accountable. Heck, DLO didn't respond to Draymond Green - he sure as heck isn't going to be much bothered by Beverley's exhortations. KAT has yet to respond to anyone either. And those are our two team leaders!
I would think DLO would be leaving in the trade himself. That means Beverley is likely a starter.
I think a lineup of-
Bev
Ant
Jaden
Simmons
KAT
would be solid on defense. I also think KAT gives effort, too much at times, he simply needs to stay in front and wall up. Quit trying to block everything and swipe down drawing fouls. Let the guy shoot, just make it difficult on him and rebound. And don't let him get by you.
I think defense is fairly simple, stay in front and wall up.
Agree that if DLO is gone, that lineup above puts us in a much better position defensively than if we traded Beasley + McD and Simmons ends up being the lone guy that can defend in the starting lineup.
Also agree that KAT's issues are a bit different from DLO. KAT tries, but it's often in a faux "look at how hard I'm working on defense!" way with poor technique and decision making. There is just such a lack of depth and discipline. After 6+ seasons of flailing about, he isn't going to change at this point.
KAT plays defense much of the way he likely did in HS. He was way taller and could swat any shot from the 6 footers around him. He still hasn't learned that doesn't work in the pro game.
I can't include Jaden in any trade, we need him on defense.
I keep seeing lineup projections from many on this board that have Simmons at the 4. While I would agree he has the size, does this not immediately negate many of the things that make him so great? Main ball handler, ability to facilitate, taking advantage of guards with his size? I don't know, he is a much more appealing player with all of those traits being played to. Not sure I want a mid-sized PF that can't shoot.
Maybe he would still be defacto Point-PF? Meh, not sure how that works out.
Hicks123 wrote:I keep seeing lineup projections from many on this board that have Simmons at the 4. While I would agree he has the size, does this not immediately negate many of the things that make him so great? Main ball handler, ability to facilitate, taking advantage of guards with his size? I don't know, he is a much more appealing player with all of those traits being played to. Not sure I want a mid-sized PF that can't shoot.
Maybe he would still be defacto Point-PF? Meh, not sure how that works out.
Correct, that's how I see it. Whether DLO is still here or Beverley is our starting PG, those guys would spot up a lot more while Ben is the primary ball handler.
Now if we kept DLO and Ant while adding Simmons, I do see some potential issues. If Ant keeps on his current growth trajectory, he could be a lead guard who we want to see handling the ball more. That seems like a lot of guys that need the ball in their hands, as while DLO can certainly spot up and shoot, I imagine he still wants to initiate a bunch of offense. That sort of neuters Simmons on offense to a large degree....
Q12543 wrote:I've felt all along that if the Wolves are serious about landing Simmons, they need to assume that he will be the exact same player he's been since he was a rookie. He's added literally nothing to his game and the same weaknesses exist.
My #1 fear if we land Simmons is that rather than him helping to change our defensive culture, our chronically poor culture changes him instead. I could easily see us scratching our heads at times wondering where the Philly version of Ben's defense went....
Patrick Beverley will be bringing the aggressiveness. No way can you go half ass when you goy a guy like that on defense. You need to step up to his level.
That's assuming he stays with us in a trade scenario. Also, while he helps, he can't be the lone guy that holds people accountable. Heck, DLO didn't respond to Draymond Green - he sure as heck isn't going to be much bothered by Beverley's exhortations. KAT has yet to respond to anyone either. And those are our two team leaders!
I would think DLO would be leaving in the trade himself. That means Beverley is likely a starter.
I think a lineup of-
Bev
Ant
Jaden
Simmons
KAT
would be solid on defense. I also think KAT gives effort, too much at times, he simply needs to stay in front and wall up. Quit trying to block everything and swipe down drawing fouls. Let the guy shoot, just make it difficult on him and rebound. And don't let him get by you.
I think defense is fairly simple, stay in front and wall up.
Agree that if DLO is gone, that lineup above puts us in a much better position defensively than if we traded Beasley + McD and Simmons ends up being the lone guy that can defend in the starting lineup.
Also agree that KAT's issues are a bit different from DLO. KAT tries, but it's often in a faux "look at how hard I'm working on defense!" way with poor technique and decision making. There is just such a lack of depth and discipline. After 6+ seasons of flailing about, he isn't going to change at this point.
KAT plays defense much of the way he likely did in HS. He was way taller and could swat any shot from the 6 footers around him. He still hasn't learned that doesn't work in the pro game.
I can't include Jaden in any trade, we need him on defense.
Well put, that's basically what I was trying to say. He's a very immature defender that has learned almost none of the NBA nuances on that side of the court.
Hicks123 wrote:I keep seeing lineup projections from many on this board that have Simmons at the 4. While I would agree he has the size, does this not immediately negate many of the things that make him so great? Main ball handler, ability to facilitate, taking advantage of guards with his size? I don't know, he is a much more appealing player with all of those traits being played to. Not sure I want a mid-sized PF that can't shoot.
Maybe he would still be defacto Point-PF? Meh, not sure how that works out.
He slides in at the four because Minnesota doesn't currently have a starting-caliber four on the roster. That doesn't mean there are limitations in how he's used offensively or defensively. He would still be used as a ball-handler. He would still be able to take advantage of various matchups -- when teams go small or when teams try to go big. He would probably be used as a screener much more and I think that'd be a huge boon to his game. And defensively he'd be able to switch everywhere when needed.
I'm also not sure I'd classify Ben Simmons as "mid-sized" at all. The guy's legitimately big. He's listed at 6'11, 240-pounds on NBA's site. Now, that's probably a slight exaggeration, but he looks comparable to Karl-Anthony Towns when standing next to him. The guy is large.
Hicks123 wrote:I keep seeing lineup projections from many on this board that have Simmons at the 4. While I would agree he has the size, does this not immediately negate many of the things that make him so great? Main ball handler, ability to facilitate, taking advantage of guards with his size? I don't know, he is a much more appealing player with all of those traits being played to. Not sure I want a mid-sized PF that can't shoot.
Maybe he would still be defacto Point-PF? Meh, not sure how that works out.
He slides in at the four because Minnesota doesn't currently have a starting-caliber four on the roster. That doesn't mean there are limitations in how he's used offensively or defensively. He would still be used as a ball-handler. He would still be able to take advantage of various matchups -- when teams go small or when teams try to go big. He would probably be used as a screener much more and I think that'd be a huge boon to his game. And defensively he'd be able to switch everywhere when needed.
I'm also not sure I'd classify Ben Simmons as "mid-sized" at all. The guy's legitimately big. He's listed at 6'11, 240-pounds on NBA's site. Now, that's probably a slight exaggeration, but he looks comparable to Karl-Anthony Towns when standing next to him. The guy is large.
They use real measured height for the listed height on NBA.com. It's something every team does on media day etc measuring guys height and weight. Maybe some dudes bring their biggest shoes or something but the heights on NBA.com shouldn't be too wildly different from reality.
Hicks123 wrote:I keep seeing lineup projections from many on this board that have Simmons at the 4. While I would agree he has the size, does this not immediately negate many of the things that make him so great? Main ball handler, ability to facilitate, taking advantage of guards with his size? I don't know, he is a much more appealing player with all of those traits being played to. Not sure I want a mid-sized PF that can't shoot.
Maybe he would still be defacto Point-PF? Meh, not sure how that works out.
Correct, that's how I see it. Whether DLO is still here or Beverley is our starting PG, those guys would spot up a lot more while Ben is the primary ball handler.
Now if we kept DLO and Ant while adding Simmons, I do see some potential issues. If Ant keeps on his current growth trajectory, he could be a lead guard who we want to see handling the ball more. That seems like a lot of guys that need the ball in their hands, as while DLO can certainly spot up and shoot, I imagine he still wants to initiate a bunch of offense. That sort of neuters Simmons on offense to a large degree....
Couldn't agree more with you two. You want the ball in Simmons hands, he's one of the best at making other people better. He's also an automatic mismatch at guard rather than PF. If we get Ben I would rather be long throughout the lineup and be a real handful on defense.
Hicks123 wrote:I keep seeing lineup projections from many on this board that have Simmons at the 4. While I would agree he has the size, does this not immediately negate many of the things that make him so great? Main ball handler, ability to facilitate, taking advantage of guards with his size? I don't know, he is a much more appealing player with all of those traits being played to. Not sure I want a mid-sized PF that can't shoot.
Maybe he would still be defacto Point-PF? Meh, not sure how that works out.
Correct, that's how I see it. Whether DLO is still here or Beverley is our starting PG, those guys would spot up a lot more while Ben is the primary ball handler.
Now if we kept DLO and Ant while adding Simmons, I do see some potential issues. If Ant keeps on his current growth trajectory, he could be a lead guard who we want to see handling the ball more. That seems like a lot of guys that need the ball in their hands, as while DLO can certainly spot up and shoot, I imagine he still wants to initiate a bunch of offense. That sort of neuters Simmons on offense to a large degree....
Couldn't agree more with you two. You want the ball in Simmons hands, he's one of the best at making other people better. He's also an automatic mismatch at guard rather than PF. If we get Ben I would rather be long throughout the lineup and be a real handful on defense.
I agree. I don't think Simmons is a good fit with DLO, Edwards and KAT. Simmons needs to be a primary ball-handler and facilitate the offense to maximize his skills. He's not a good fit for any team playing off the ball. If I were Rosas, I'd offer a package that included DLO, but not McDaniels and with fewer picks than the Beasley packages that some have suggested. DLO, Okogie or Layman, the rights to Bolmaro, two 1st-round picks and four 2nd-round picks would be the most I'd offer.
Hicks123 wrote:I keep seeing lineup projections from many on this board that have Simmons at the 4. While I would agree he has the size, does this not immediately negate many of the things that make him so great? Main ball handler, ability to facilitate, taking advantage of guards with his size? I don't know, he is a much more appealing player with all of those traits being played to. Not sure I want a mid-sized PF that can't shoot.
Maybe he would still be defacto Point-PF? Meh, not sure how that works out.
Correct, that's how I see it. Whether DLO is still here or Beverley is our starting PG, those guys would spot up a lot more while Ben is the primary ball handler.
Now if we kept DLO and Ant while adding Simmons, I do see some potential issues. If Ant keeps on his current growth trajectory, he could be a lead guard who we want to see handling the ball more. That seems like a lot of guys that need the ball in their hands, as while DLO can certainly spot up and shoot, I imagine he still wants to initiate a bunch of offense. That sort of neuters Simmons on offense to a large degree....
Couldn't agree more with you two. You want the ball in Simmons hands, he's one of the best at making other people better. He's also an automatic mismatch at guard rather than PF. If we get Ben I would rather be long throughout the lineup and be a real handful on defense.
I agree. I don't think Simmons is a good fit with DLO, Edwards and KAT. Simmons needs to be a primary ball-handler and facilitate the offense to maximize his skills. He's not a good fit for any team playing off the ball. If I were Rosas, I'd offer a package that included DLO, but not McDaniels and with fewer picks than the Beasley packages that some have suggested. DLO, Okogie or Layman, the rights to Bolmaro, two 1st-round picks and four 2nd-round picks would be the most I'd offer.
Yes, but I don't think it will take that many picks. Maybe two first rounders and a swap?
This is what blows my mind about all this Simmons talk. Lip acknowledges that he doesn't fit in well with a lineup composed of our best players. Then says I wouldn't give up more than two firsts and DLo for him.
If he doesn't fit with our core guys why the heck would we give up anything for him?
