Minnesota Sports Forum

Apparently, the Pistons are going to waive Wendell Moore Jr. Hard to believe we let him slip away but now it looks like we’ll have a chance to get him back. . Seriously, no NBA team is going to sign him now or ever. I saw this day coming after watching his unending frivolity on the bench just about every minute of every single game. You all probably remember my rants about him in my game reports. Watching him brought back my old Wes Johnson nightmares.

Truth is, Wendell Moore Jr, like others before him (Wes Johnson, Kandiman, Darko, etc.) has little interest in playing basketball. Every player drafted by an NBA team, Moore included, is very talented. But talent means nothing without the drive to succeed and a love of the game. If you don’t really love the game and crave success, you will fail. Players like Wendell Moore just don’t care. I’m think of the song “Girls Just Wanna Have Fun.” Apply that song to Wendell Moore and Wes Johnson but with lyrics that align with their gender. The lesson of these players is a lesson that NBA teams should not have to learn - i.e., you don’t draft or sign a player if there is any doubt about whether that player truly loves the game and has a strong drive to succeed.

What baffles me is how NBA teams, with all their resources, experience and the inquiries they presumably make, can miss spotting such a basic character component of a draft prospect. All NBA teams will make draft mistakes and it’s understandable. But one type of mistake I find unacceptable is drafting a player like Wendell Moore, Wes Johnson or Darko. NBA front offices, with all their resources, should be expected to spot the players who don’t care.

Hey Lip... remember all the early reports about Edwards not really being into basketball.

Glad those proved to be overstated.

Add Derrick Williams to the list of unserious prospects. What a disastrous pick for the Wolves at #2. The Flynn-Johnson- Williams draft picks in three consecutive years prolonged our misery in the post-KG years.

Then there was LaVine and Dunn sandwiched between KAT. I know LaVine has turned into a real asset, but it took him such a long time to become a positive contributor and it was long after we traded him away.

And I'd argue Wiggins, while not a total goofball, has always seemed somewhat disinterested in the game. He managed to wake up long enough to win a title that one year with Golden State, so good on him, but otherwise he has been a model of underachievement.

(I would add DLO to the list, but he wasn't drafted by us and actually kinda helped us transition from incompetent to competitive).

Wes Johnson has never averaged more than 16 ppg at ANY level... through the age of 23.

But that smile! We'll take him at #4.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 10:28 am Add Derrick Williams to the list of unserious prospects. What a disastrous pick for the Wolves at #2. The Flynn-Johnson- Williams draft picks in three consecutive years prolonged our misery in the post-KG years.

Then there was LaVine and Dunn sandwiched between KAT. I know LaVine has turned into a real asset, but it took him such a long time to become a positive contributor and it was long after we traded him away.

And I'd argue Wiggins, while not a total goofball, has always seemed somewhat disinterested in the game. He managed to wake up long enough to win a title that one year with Golden State, so good on him, but otherwise he has been a model of underachievement.

(I would add DLO to the list, but he wasn't drafted by us and actually kinda helped us transition from incompetent to competitive).

How could I forget Derrick Williams?! I really wanted to forget him but thanks to you that additional bad memories has returned. . Yes, he’s right up there with Wes Johnson and Moore among the “boys just want it have fun” crowd. I agree that Wiggins also lacks the necessary level of drive love for the game. I thought that was apparent early on in his NBA career, which was why Glen Taylor had to “look him in the eye” before signing him to that big contract. But I wouldn’t put Wiggins in the “boys just want to have fun” group because I think he cares. He just doesn’t care enough to be great. As a result, Wiggins hasn’t washed out like Wes, Derrick, Wendell and others because I don’t think Andrew is totally disinterested like those guys. I’d put DLO in the same category as Wiggins except that Wiggins is more talented and a better teammate.

I don’t have a good sense of Kris Dunn. As for LaVine, I don’t think drive or caring has ever been an issue for him. He’s actually become a much better player than anyone (except maybe Flip) expected him to be coming out of college. I think he cares a lot and has a strong competitive drive. His developmental issue has always been his IQ, which isn’t super low but not particularly high either. He was also derailed by an ACL tear.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 11:21 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 10:28 am Add Derrick Williams to the list of unserious prospects. What a disastrous pick for the Wolves at #2. The Flynn-Johnson- Williams draft picks in three consecutive years prolonged our misery in the post-KG years.

Then there was LaVine and Dunn sandwiched between KAT. I know LaVine has turned into a real asset, but it took him such a long time to become a positive contributor and it was long after we traded him away.

And I'd argue Wiggins, while not a total goofball, has always seemed somewhat disinterested in the game. He managed to wake up long enough to win a title that one year with Golden State, so good on him, but otherwise he has been a model of underachievement.

(I would add DLO to the list, but he wasn't drafted by us and actually kinda helped us transition from incompetent to competitive).

How could I forget Derrick Williams?! I really wanted to forget him but thanks to you that additional bad memories has returned. . Yes, he’s right up there with Wes Johnson and Moore among the “boys just want it have fun” crowd. I agree that Wiggins also lacks the necessary level of drive love for the game. I thought that was apparent early on in his NBA career, which was why Glen Taylor had to “look him in the eye” before signing him to that big contract. But I wouldn’t put Wiggins in the “boys just want to have fun” group because I think he cares. He just doesn’t care enough to be great. As a result, Wiggins hasn’t washed out like Wes, Derrick, Wendell and others because I don’t think Andrew is totally disinterested like those guys. I’d put DLO in the same category as Wiggins except that Wiggins is more talented and a better teammate.

I don’t have a good sense of Kris Dunn. As for LaVine, I don’t think drive or caring has ever been an issue for him. He’s actually become a much better player than anyone (except maybe Flip) expected him to be coming out of college. I think he cares a lot and has a strong competitive drive. His developmental issue has always been his IQ, which isn’t super low but not particularly high either. He was also derailed by an ACL tear.

I guess I took your list of unserious players and expanded it to include all of the recent draft disappointments, regardless of why they were disappointing!

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 12:27 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 11:21 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 10:28 am Add Derrick Williams to the list of unserious prospects. What a disastrous pick for the Wolves at #2. The Flynn-Johnson- Williams draft picks in three consecutive years prolonged our misery in the post-KG years.

Then there was LaVine and Dunn sandwiched between KAT. I know LaVine has turned into a real asset, but it took him such a long time to become a positive contributor and it was long after we traded him away.

And I'd argue Wiggins, while not a total goofball, has always seemed somewhat disinterested in the game. He managed to wake up long enough to win a title that one year with Golden State, so good on him, but otherwise he has been a model of underachievement.

(I would add DLO to the list, but he wasn't drafted by us and actually kinda helped us transition from incompetent to competitive).

How could I forget Derrick Williams?! I really wanted to forget him but thanks to you that additional bad memories has returned. . Yes, he’s right up there with Wes Johnson and Moore among the “boys just want it have fun” crowd. I agree that Wiggins also lacks the necessary level of drive love for the game. I thought that was apparent early on in his NBA career, which was why Glen Taylor had to “look him in the eye” before signing him to that big contract. But I wouldn’t put Wiggins in the “boys just want to have fun” group because I think he cares. He just doesn’t care enough to be great. As a result, Wiggins hasn’t washed out like Wes, Derrick, Wendell and others because I don’t think Andrew is totally disinterested like those guys. I’d put DLO in the same category as Wiggins except that Wiggins is more talented and a better teammate.

I don’t have a good sense of Kris Dunn. As for LaVine, I don’t think drive or caring has ever been an issue for him. He’s actually become a much better player than anyone (except maybe Flip) expected him to be coming out of college. I think he cares a lot and has a strong competitive drive. His developmental issue has always been his IQ, which isn’t super low but not particularly high either. He was also derailed by an ACL tear.

I guess I took your list of unserious players and expanded it to include all of the recent draft disappointments, regardless of why they were disappointing!

Don’t get me started on the long list of Wolves draft disappointments - JR Rider, Rashad McCants, Randy Foye, Ebi, Kris Dunn, Randy Culver …. The list goes on. The absolutely horrendous draft record of successive Wolves regimes is a discussion unto itself. I can excuse some of it. Sometimes players just don’t develop as you expected for reasons that aren’t apparent and could not have been anticipated. Drafting Flynn was terrible because of who we passed over to draft him; however, I still think he would have been a very good player if not for his hip injury his rookie season. He just never came back from that. Kris Dunn was particularly bad because Murray was available. Culver was especially bad because we traded up to get him. I was not a fan of Dunn or Culver as players coming out of college. At the time, I thought Curry would become great but I didn’t foresee how great and I don’t think anyone else did either.

When it comes to drafting, trading for or signing players, what I can’t excuse is missing or ignoring key character flaws, which should be viewed as bright red flags saying, stay away! Those flaws fall into three categories: (1) not loving the game or caring (Wes, Derrick, Wendell, Darko, Kandiman); (2) drugs or mental illness (Rider and McCants); and (3) lacking competitive drive, which is a slightly less problematic version of not caring (Wiggins). This last category is a little tougher to gauge and might merit a dark yellow or orange rather than a red one. I’d put Wiggins and DLO in this third category. Wiggins was worth the risk at the beginning because of his talent and the lack of any NBA track record to make his flaw obvious. Trading for DLO was inexcusable in my view in light of what we traded to get him and given DLO’s NBA track record. Of course the worst was giving a multi-year deal to Darko when every one of the other 29 NBA front offices had no interest in him because it was so painfully obvious he had no interest in playing basketball.

I think Dunn, Culver (along with Flynn) were bad picks because they didn’t have the talent or upside to be worthy of where we took them relative to other options.

Bottom line is that there’s reason the Wolves have been so bad for so long until recently. Your team will only be as good as the player personnel decisions of your front office executives. Until Rosas came along we had some really bad one. Rosas made a couple mistakes (Culver, DLO, Bolmaro) but also made some great decisions (Edwards, Jaden, Naz). TC’s tenure is likewise mixed and a work in progress.

Atlanta is waiving Bones Hyland. He was drafted by TC, and seemed to be a target for TC at the trade deadline two years ago.

I'm not we have a great need for him at this point. Although, with DDV out and Conley hurting, maybe a 10-day contract could be in play?

60WinTim wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 7:26 pm Atlanta is waiving Bones Hyland. He was drafted by TC, and seemed to be a target for TC at the trade deadline two years ago.

I'm not we have a great need for him at this point. Although, with DDV out and Conley hurting, maybe a 10-day contract could be in play?

Not this guy again! Seems like his name comes up here every 6 to 12 months.

We are bursting at the seams with potential in Dillingham, Clark, and Shannon. We start crowding their minutes out if we bring in a guy like Bones. If Conley needs some rest, I think Finch starts NAW at PG and he dials up the minutes of the trio above with Ant essentially being a lead guard to close games.

I could see bringing in a vet big body on a 10-day deal. That might make more sense at this point.

Wendell Moore Jr was my guy I’ll say here again I was wrong on that one.