Minnesota Sports Forum

PorkChop wrote:Personally I think a Simmons for Kyrie Irving trade would make perfect sense for both teams.

It won't happen but I agree with you.

monsterpile wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Personally I think a Simmons for Kyrie Irving trade would make perfect sense for both teams.

It won't happen but I agree with you.

I actually think it would happen if Kyrie wouldn't retire based on the trade

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Personally I think a Simmons for Kyrie Irving trade would make perfect sense for both teams.

It won't happen but I agree with you.

I actually think it would happen if Kyrie wouldn't retire based on the trade

Yeah, that kind of takes a bit of the air out of it I suppose, LOL.

Not to mention the fact that Durant did not approve of them dealing him.

PorkChop wrote:Personally I think a Simmons for Kyrie Irving trade would make perfect sense for both teams.

A poll of GM's showed Irving has basically zero value around the league. His antics have caught up with him.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Personally I think a Simmons for Kyrie Irving trade would make perfect sense for both teams.

A poll of GM's showed Irving has basically zero value around the league. His antics have caught up with him.

Do you have a link or where you saw that? I'm really curious.

monsterpile wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Personally I think a Simmons for Kyrie Irving trade would make perfect sense for both teams.

A poll of GM's showed Irving has basically zero value around the league. His antics have caught up with him.

Do you have a link or where you saw that? I'm really curious.

I heard it on the NBA network yesterday.

I totally agree, Monster. It's the point Cam made a couple weeks ago - i.e., that Morey grossly overplayed his hand. I'd say that Ben's trade value was highest about 6 weeks ago. Ben himself has a cap on his value to begin because of who is is as a player - his terrible free-throw shooting, poor perimeter shooting, extraordinary reluctance to shoot, failure to improve and failure to follow the admonition of his coaches to shoot more. So he's not the sort of player like Anthony Davis, James Harden or Kevin Durant who teams would climb mountains to get. From there, his value has been sliding for at least the past 4 weeks based on a combination of the following factors:

1. The fact that Simmons wanted out and that the Sixers were shopping him as soon as the playoffs ended, along with the public scapegoating of Simmons by Doc Rivers, Joel Embiid and Danny Green. Those facts limited the Sixers' leverage right out of the gate. It was clear from the beginning that the Sixers were intent on moving on from Simmons and that Simmons didn't want to be there. Given the public scapegoating by Ben's head coach and the team's best playe, it was hard to envision Simmons returning to the Sixers except perhaps to get paid. All of this drove his market value down below what it would have otherwise been and it was already lower than what Daryl Morey delusionally believed it would be. This is where Morey really overplayed his hand. He failed or refused to accept two realities: (1) that Simmons was never going to have the market value of a James Harden, AD or Kevin Durant; and (2) that the rest of the League's executives were smart enough to realize that it was unlikely Simmons would remain with the Sixers given all that had happened. As a result, Morey had unrealistic expectations that led him to make unreasonable and in some cases insulting demands.

2. The increasingly clear and emphatic resolve of Ben and his agent to stand their ground, not show up and show no interest in helping the Sixers enhance Ben's trade value. Over time, this clarity from the Simmons camp, fueled in part by the Sixers' brazenly disingenuous effort to patch things up with Ben, solidified in the minds of League executives that the Sixers will not have Ben Simmons in the fold for the season. Therefore, every team interested in Ben Simmons knows that the Sixers will have to trade Simmons and they'll have to do it relatively soon if they want to salvage the season.

3. NBA teams, including those potentially interested in Simmons, have solidified their rosters as the beginning of the season gets close. Certain players can't be traded until future dates under the CBA, while earlier salary flexibility has been lost. Moreover, teams have begun marketing and planning strategy around the players on their current rosters. Truth is, it becomes harder and harder to trade players the closer a team gets to the start of the season. Trade interest ramps down and craters at the start of the season. And it doesn't begin to ramp up again until the February trade deadline approaches near the end of January.

4. Morey's arrogant approach to trade discussions has further alienated his colleagues around the League. Team executives will still ultimately give up decent value for Simmons. But no front office executives want to lift a finger to help Morey out of the hole he dug for himself and none of them wants to be the guy who gets taken by him in a one-sided deal. To the contrary, every executive is looking to extract as much as possible from Morey now that his back is up against the wall.

"As an Aussie who grew up watching Ben's father play several seasons, a likeable, solid but unspectacular workhorse PF, I've always tried to like Ben Simmons. I've always wanted him to succeed. But it's become very difficult to defend him. It's become difficult to even like him.

I've followed his career for a long time and recall him playing for the junior national team as a 15-year-old. I identified years ago that his attitude is a major stumbling block for him, stemming from a mental weakness of sorts. He also seems to have social issues. He's an introvert, which isn't a problem itself, but it's much more than that. He has always appeared to be a bit of an outsider. He has a history of feeling entitled. He has a history of struggling to reconcile.

He basically forced the Australian national team to change coach because he refused to play for the national team coach who had previously cut him from the World Championships team as a 17-year-old. This same coach selected him in the regional qualification tournament as a 15-year-old, but that didn't matter. Like his social media off-season highlights packages, he teased Aussies with the prospect of playing for the national team, but again and again, he would pull out in the last minute, leaving his teammates puzzled about what happened. Andrew Bogut recalls a story prior to the 2019 World Cup where he basically just disappeared without warning after previously turning up to practice. Simmons didn't contact any of his teammates. Then before the 2021 Olympics, the new national team coach based the whole game plan around Simmons turning up, because Simmons gave the impression he would play. This time he didn't even turn up to training. The irony is, the national team ended up snatching a bronze nonetheless, utilising an appreciative, cooperative and extremely likeable Matisse Thybulle.

Simmons is clearly a very talented player, and I have no doubt he could have a decent jumper in the NBA. He was a respectable midrange shooter as a 15-year-old. His father, who only had an ugly 15-footer in his first few years playing in Australia, developed a reliable 3-point shot later in his career. But the jumper isn't Simmons' problem. His mentality is. This mental fragility is just getting worse. And the more focus there is on it, the more he will panic in those crucial situations.

He has always had a pattern of decreased productivity from 1st to 4th quarters throughout his career, which could be due to any number of reasons. But I suspect much of it can be summarised as this: fear of choking.

It's even possible to identify his fear of choking from his splits by actual margin lasts season. When his team is down 1-5, he hits FTs at 78%! In that situation, his mentality is more aggressive, more focused, not second guessing himself because he doesn't have the prospect of choking to contend with. When the score is tied, he is still active, he is crashing boards at a peak rate, but his FT% plummets to 52%. When up just 1-5, he becomes hesitant, and when he has time to think, like in FTs, his FT% is at that dismal 54% level.

Any NBA team that wants him should be hiring a team of psychologists to work with him. Although one wonders if Ben would ever cooperate, because he also has a history of only working closely with his trusted, inner circle. He might, like throughout this saga, just get offended and withdraw."


Saw this post on a Philly message board. Thought it had some kind of scary and very concerning info on ben simmons I hadn't heard before.

Interesting notes from Keith Pompey of The Philadelphia Inquirer:

- The Timberwolves, Pacers, Cavaliers, Pistons, Raptors and Spurs continue to inquire about Ben Simmons' availability.

- This standoff could drag on until after December 15th, when many free agents signed this summer can be included in trades.

- Rich Paul tried to assist the Sixers in receiving a five-player package for Simmons in a three-team trade, but Philadelphia's asking price was too rich.

- Simmons' $8.25-million advanced payment has been placed in an escrow account. Simmons is likely to receive all the money in his contract once he's traded since it's expected the team that acquires him will waive the fines the Sixers have instituted for his refusal to show up for training camp.

- Simmons' desire to be traded was communicated to the front office just days after the team was eliminated from the playoffs. Paul told GM Elton Brand his client wanted out three days after the Hawks bounced the team out of the playoff chase. Brand then told president of basketball operations Daryl Morey.