Q12543 wrote:I've felt all along that if the Wolves are serious about landing Simmons, they need to assume that he will be the exact same player he's been since he was a rookie. He's added literally nothing to his game and the same weaknesses exist.
My #1 fear if we land Simmons is that rather than him helping to change our defensive culture, our chronically poor culture changes him instead. I could easily see us scratching our heads at times wondering where the Philly version of Ben's defense went....
Q, maybe Simmons has peaked and his offense never gets any better than it is right now. Or maybe he improves on offense as much in the next 5 years as he did in his first 5. You say that he has added literally nothing to his game since his rookie year, but his shooting stats show some improvement.
-He has raised his free throw percentage from 56% to 61.3%...still not a good percentage, but a significant improvement which leaves him not far behind the reigning NBA Finals MVP.
-His TS% was already pretty good as a rookie at 55.7%, but he has continued to improve it to a very strong 58.4%.
Who knows if the pressure chamber that is Philadelphia basketball hasn't had a significant negative impact on Ben's confidence and shooting...Target Center is a completely different environment. If anything, we might be too forgiving as a fan base. NBA players tend to get smarter as they progress in the league and learn how to emphasize their strengths and it appears that what Ben has done. We don't know if he will continue to improve his efficiency as he gets more experienced, but since he's only 25, I would bet on it.
And I'm not as concerned about his defense falling apart when he joins us. Excellent defense is a product of length, athleticism, size and effort, and I would say the first three characteristics are the key to Ben's defensive success...and those aren't things that go away barring injury. I think he would instantly transform our defense.
Gibson, Thibs, Butler.....NOTHING changed with our defense when adding those guys. Meanwhile, Thibs walks into NYC and overnight the Knicks go from bottom 10 to top 5 defense. Thibs stint in Minnesota is bookended by his Chicago and NY stints. He creates a top 5 defense in two of those places, but can't get out of the bottom 5 in Minnesota. So what gives?
So I don't see how Simmons "transforms" our defense when it would basically be him and McDaniels trying to guard the other five guys. Now if DLO is part of the trade and PBev starts at guard for us, now you've got a tipping point of defensive-minded players that could help turn the tide. But as long as the Ant-DLO-KAT trio is our core, we will be a bottom 10 defense no matter who gets added to that group.
Q12543 wrote:I've felt all along that if the Wolves are serious about landing Simmons, they need to assume that he will be the exact same player he's been since he was a rookie. He's added literally nothing to his game and the same weaknesses exist.
My #1 fear if we land Simmons is that rather than him helping to change our defensive culture, our chronically poor culture changes him instead. I could easily see us scratching our heads at times wondering where the Philly version of Ben's defense went....
Q, maybe Simmons has peaked and his offense never gets any better than it is right now. Or maybe he improves on offense as much in the next 5 years as he did in his first 5. You say that he has added literally nothing to his game since his rookie year, but his shooting stats show some improvement.
-He has raised his free throw percentage from 56% to 61.3%...still not a good percentage, but a significant improvement which leaves him not far behind the reigning NBA Finals MVP.
-His TS% was already pretty good as a rookie at 55.7%, but he has continued to improve it to a very strong 58.4%.
Who knows if the pressure chamber that is Philadelphia basketball hasn't had a significant negative impact on Ben's confidence and shooting...Target Center is a completely different environment. If anything, we might be too forgiving as a fan base. NBA players tend to get smarter as they progress in the league and learn how to emphasize their strengths and it appears that what Ben has done. We don't know if he will continue to improve his efficiency as he gets more experienced, but since he's only 25, I would bet on it.
And I'm not as concerned about his defense falling apart when he joins us. Excellent defense is a product of length, athleticism, size and effort, and I would say the first three characteristics are the key to Ben's defensive success...and those aren't things that go away barring injury. I think he would instantly transform our defense.
Gibson, Thibs, Butler.....NOTHING changed with our defense when adding those guys. Meanwhile, Thibs walks into NYC and overnight the Knicks go from bottom 10 to top 5 defense. Thibs stint in Minnesota is bookended by his Chicago and NY stints. He creates a top 5 defense in two of those places, but can't get out of the bottom 5 in Minnesota. So what gives?
So I don't see how Simmons "transforms" our defense when it would basically be him and McDaniels trying to guard the other five guys. Now if DLO is part of the trade and PBev starts at guard for us, now you've got a tipping point of defensive-minded players that could help turn the tide. But as long as the Ant-DLO-KAT trio is our core, we will be a bottom 10 defense no matter who gets added to that group.
Q, I certainly agree that poor defense seems to be baked into the Wolves' DNA. I really would have thought that Butler-led team would have at least finished in the top half in defense, but alas, still bottom 10. The last time I can remember being satisfied with the Wolves defense was 2015-6 when KG and Prince sometimes played much of the 1st quarter and the score at the end of the quarter was often something like 19-18. Many fans hated those first quarters, but I loved them. But both defensive stalwarts were in their final seasons and played sparingly after the first quarter, and our defense finished a woeful 28th for the season.
So I agree with you that our defense will struggle even with Simmons if Dlo is not included in the deal and still getting 30+ minutes. I think the jury is in on Russell and the verdict is that his Nets' season was an aberration. I still think we will be a strong playoff team if we pick up Simmons in a deal that doesn't include Dlo, but largely because I think our offense will be a juggernaut and our defense only slightly improved. That's why I continue to hope that somehow the two teams can come to a deal where the two max players are swapped. Not likely I think, but still my dream.
Jon Krawczynski: (The Sixers) want a premium for (Ben Simmons), someone that can help them right away. But the Timberwolves don't want to trade Anthony Edwards or Karl-Anthony towns. Those are those are deal-breakers. And they really would rather not trade D'Angelo Russell 1 day ago - via Spotify
The more I read and reflect, the more convinced I am that DLO will have to be included in any Wolves deal for Simmons, unless the Wolves can find a third team. Morey simply won't deal Simmons without getting a good lead guard in return. The question is whether Morey would consider DLO good enough as the lead guard in a package from Minnesota. Presumably, the Wolves would also have to include multiple unprotected future 1st-round picks and Jaden as well. My guess is that Morey's bottom line for a deal with the Wolves (absent a 3rd team) would be DLO, Beasley and future picks. I don't think DLO and McDaniels + future picks would be enough for Morey. The Sixers need to win now and can't count on want they MIGHT get down the road by trading the picks they get for Simmons. DLO and Beasley would give the Sixers a lot of offensive firepower. And they'd still have a pretty good defensive team with Embiid, Harris and Thybulle.
If Rosas asked me, I'd advise against taking that deal. Giving up both DLO and Beasley would be too much for me. But what if we got Shake Milton and Maxey in return?
Lip, who is Philadelphia pairing with Ben Simmons in order to make those salaries match in the trade involving D'Angelo Russell and Malik Beasley? I just don't see that happening at all. There will either be a trade involving Russell and picks, which I find unlikely, or there will be a trade involving Beasley, an expiring (Taurean Prince or Patrick Beverley), plus Jaden McDaniels and/or first-round picks.
DLO and a 1st or a couple 1sts with lotto protection. That's enough for a depressed asset. Not that he's a bad player, the fact is that Philly the team and fans don't want him there and neither does Simmons. He has question marks to his game.
Really, DLO and a 1st sounds fair to me despite many on this board hating the dudes play.
I feel like if Dlo is in the deal instead of Beasley than that means no Jaden in the deal. Maybe picks but Dlo and Jaden is absurd with Simmons value right now.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:DLO, McDaniels, and multiple first round picks is too much to give up for Simmons. I want Simmons as bad as the next guy, but let's not be stupid.
This take from Cool is kinda significant as he has been really wanting Simmons and willing to move Russell. I don't think Rosas would consider this either as trading Russell and Beasley they would leave them without the shooting needed to be around Simmons. Plus as Cam mentioned Beasley is more salary to add plus the Sixers have a lot of SG although none maybe quite as much of a scorer as Beasley. They are all better defenders though. Lol
Camden wrote:Lip, who is Philadelphia pairing with Ben Simmons in order to make those salaries match in the trade involving D'Angelo Russell and Malik Beasley? I just don't see that happening at all. There will either be a trade involving Russell and picks, which I find unlikely, or there will be a trade involving Beasley, an expiring (Taurean Prince or Patrick Beverley), plus Jaden McDaniels and/or first-round picks.
I believe the salaries would work if Philly included Shake Milton and Maxey. But I don't see that trade happening because I don't see Rosas agreeing to it. He's not going to give up both DLO and Beasley. Morey might accept DLO, McDaniels and multiple picks. The questions is whether Rosas would agree to that. I'm not sure whether he would.
I just listened to Windhorst on Wolfson's podcast. I know people are a fan of either of these guys but Windhorst said some interesting things to take note of and decide whether to put any stock into what Windhorst says or not.
He said Philly actually really values Maxey and didn't want to give him up in a trade for Lowry at the trade deadline. IF that's true Morey isn't just playing with Simmons and Rich Paul on one front he is playing with it on another front with Maxey. Good times.
He thinks Morey could play out the Simmons thing well into the season possibly even to the trade deadline even with Simmons not playing. He thinks the Sixers might be able to play well enough without Simmons that they can keep winning enough games. I tend to think this is a possibility too but if I was the Sixers GM I'm not sure I would want to bet my job on it.
He said there is a smaller market team that has made an offer to the Sixers for Simmons that has not been reported.
Windhorst said he doesn't think the Wolves have what it will take to get Simmons because Morey wants a star and the wolves don't have it. He says a 3rd team makes it difficult to make a deal go through and in some cases if you can get the star player routed to the Sixers...why wouldn't you just trade for that player yourself. He sounded pretty amused that Russell would be kinda off the table for a Simmons trade.
Wolfson asked Windhorst what made him excited about the upcoming season and he said uncertainty. He said he thinks there are a bunch of teams with a legit chance to win a championship or get to the finals and he also thinks there are a lot of compelling teams/players like Zion Ja etc that could take a step forward.
Also Wolfson has said on that the mystery FA wants to work out do the Wolves but at this point they have no flexibility under the cap so basically unless there is some sort of move made that's not happening.
