Trade Talks Update

[Lipoli390]

Let's step back and look at the situation with the Miami Heat and Butler. There have been a lot of reports about what's been going on between the Wolves and Heat regarding Jimmy Butler. We don't know all the details and it's hard to figure out exactly what's gone down. But I think we know enough to very safely assume the following:

1. The Heat really want Jimmy Butler. Not only have we seen repeated reports to that effect, but the case for Butler in Miami is compelling. We saw Butler take the Wolves from 31 wins to 47 wins in one season. While it's true that the addition of Taj and development of KAT had something to do with that one-season uptick, there should be no doubt that it was primarily related to the addition of Butler. The Miami Heat won 44 games last season and finished 6th in the East. Even if the Heat were to relinquish Richardson, Adebayo and Tyler Johnson, for example, adding Butler would instantly make the Heat the odds on favorite for the 4th seed in the East and home court advantage in the first round. Butler would be surrounded in the starting lineup by Dragic, Waiters or Winslow, Olynyk and Whiteside. That starting group would have a strong supporting bench consisting of Ellington, Dwayne Wade, Waiters or Winslow, McGrueder and James Johnson. That roster might not seem overly impressive by Western Conference standards, but it would be a team to be reckoned with in the East. The fan based in Miami would be excited and the Heat would be relevant again. Pat Riley is a smart basketball guy, so he obviously knows all of this. And he also knows the Heat won't have cap space next summer to compete for any significant free agents, including Jimmy. So this is his chance and he's not going to let a fair deal slip by.

2. Jimmy wants to play for the Heat. Again, we've seen multiple reports from reliable reporters that Jimmy wants to go to Miami. And again, those reports find strong confirmation in common sense. First of all, Jimmy knows how good Miami can be with him there and sees the opportunity to finish in the top 4 and win at least one playoff series. Second, the allure of Southbeach is probably something attractive to the Jimmy Butler of today, who seems pretty full of himself. Finally, it makes sense that Jimmy would want to play for an organization run by a tough, hard-nosed basketball legend like Pat Riley. Why does it matter that Jimmy wants to go to Miami? Because that means his agent will likely be pushing both sides, including the Heat, to get a deal done. As we all know, agents have a lot of clout in today's NBA so an agent pushing to do a deal carries a lot of weight. Of course, Butler's agent is likely pushing both sides, but the good news is that he'll be pushing Miami at least as hard as he pushes the Wolves.

3. Dwayne Wade is a close friend of Butler and wants him there. This is probably the least important factor, but it's still a factor. Pat Riley and Miami's owner have tremendous respect for Wade. Bringing in Butler for a major playoff run in Wade's last season would be a great storyline that would bring a lot of special excitement to the Heat organization and their fan base.

Of course, this doesn't mean the Wolves can simply send Pat their wish list and expect to get everything they want. So the test for the Heat as to whether they would do a particular deal is whether the trade they make for Butler would leave an adequate supporting cast in place around him to make Miami the odds on favorite for the 4th seed with potential to do even better. Here are the deals that I believe would meet that test for Miami while still proving the Wolves with a reasonable return (all meeting the salary match requirement, listed in my order of preference):

1. Butler to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo & Winslow to MN
(Note: Probably couldn't also get Miami's 2019 pk and wouldn't need it to get fair value)

2. Butler & Gorgui to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo & T. Johnson to MN

3. Butler to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo, Waiters & Miami's lottery protected 2019 1st rd pk to MN
(Note: Taking Waiters 3-yr deal would cause me to insist on getting the pick)

4. Butler and Taj to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo, T. Johnson, 2019 unprotected 1st, 2023 top 3 protected 1st
(Note: This deal would create a salary cap challenge for the Wolves next season and would fail to deal with the Gorgui contract. But I'd consider it if it meant getting an extra largely unprotected 1st down the road.)

Whether you agree that any or all of these deals provide fair value to the Wolves obviously depends on your view of Richardson and Adebayo.

As others have mentioned, Richardson put up nice numbers last season - comparable to Butler's stats at the same point in his career and he's still only 25 years old, likely with more upside ahead of him. For those who haven't, I suggest you take a look at Richardson's video highlights from last season. He's actually a terrific ballhandler for a wing with nice control as well as chance of speed and direction -- all the things Wiggins isn't. He has a nice looking shot and hustles back on defense. He has the length and athleticism to block shots and has quick hands on the defensive end.

Adebayo is by no means a sure thing. But his numbers as a rookie last season are on par with Taj Gibson when extrapolated to Gibson's 33 minutes per game. Bam is a tremendous athlete with good length and he's on a very cap-friendly rookie scale contract. Tyler Johnson is clearly overpaid, but his $19 million per year has one year less on it than Gorgui's $16 million per year deal. And Johnson is a decent wing with a nice 3-point shot. He's also a very good ballhandler who actually ran the point for Miami a few times last season.

Would I ever take Whiteside in a Butler deal? I wouldn't. But I could live with it if we also got both Richardson and Adebayo. I just don't see Miami giving up both Whiteside and Adebayo.

[Monster]

Let's step back and look at the situation with the Miami Heat and Butler. There have been a lot of reports about what's been going on between the Wolves and Heat regarding Jimmy Butler. We don't know all the details and it's hard to figure out exactly what's gone down. But I think we know enough to very safely assume the following:

1. The Heat really want Jimmy Butler. Not only have we seen repeated reports to that effect, but the case for Butler in Miami is compelling. We saw Butler take the Wolves from 31 wins to 47 wins in one season. While it's true that the addition of Taj and development of KAT had something to do with that one-season uptick, there should be no doubt that it was primarily related to the addition of Butler. The Miami Heat won 44 games last season and finished 6th in the East. Even if the Heat were to relinquish Richardson, Adebayo and Tyler Johnson, for example, adding Butler would instantly make the Heat the odds on favorite for the 4th seed in the East and home court advantage in the first round. Butler would be surrounded in the starting lineup by Dragic, Waiters or Winslow, Olynyk and Whiteside. That starting group would have a strong supporting bench consisting of Ellington, Dwayne Wade, Waiters or Winslow, McGrueder and James Johnson. That roster might not seem overly impressive by Western Conference standards, but it would be a team to be reckoned with in the East. The fan based in Miami would be excited and the Heat would be relevant again. Pat Riley is a smart basketball guy, so he obviously knows all of this. And he also knows the Heat won't have cap space next summer to compete for any significant free agents, including Jimmy. So this is his chance and he's not going to let a fair deal slip by.

2. Jimmy wants to play for the Heat. Again, we've seen multiple reports from reliable reporters that Jimmy wants to go to Miami. And again, those reports find strong confirmation in common sense. First of all, Jimmy knows how good Miami can be with him there and sees the opportunity to finish in the top 4 and win at least one playoff series. Second, the allure of Southbeach is probably something attractive to the Jimmy Butler of today, who seems pretty full of himself. Finally, it makes sense that Jimmy would want to play for an organization run by a tough, hard-nosed basketball legend like Pat Riley. Why does it matter that Jimmy wants to go to Miami? Because that means his agent will likely be pushing both sides, including the Heat, to get a deal done. As we all know, agents have a lot of clout in today's NBA so an agent pushing to do a deal carries a lot of weight. Of course, Butler's agent is likely pushing both sides, but the good news is that he'll be pushing Miami at least as hard as he pushes the Wolves.

3. Dwayne Wade is a close friend of Butler and wants him there. This is probably the least important factor, but it's still a factor. Pat Riley and Miami's owner have tremendous respect for Wade. Bringing in Butler for a major playoff run in Wade's last season would be a great storyline that would bring a lot of special excitement to the Heat organization and their fan base.

Of course, this doesn't mean the Wolves can simply send Pat their wish list and expect to get everything they want. So the test for the Heat as to whether they would do a particular deal is whether the trade they make for Butler would leave an adequate supporting cast in place around him to make Miami the odds on favorite for the 4th seed with potential to do even better. Here are the deals that I believe would meet that test for Miami while still proving the Wolves with a reasonable return (all meeting the salary match requirement, listed in my order of preference):

1. Butler to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo & Winslow to MN
(Note: Probably couldn't also get Miami's 2019 pk and wouldn't need it to get fair value)

2. Butler & Gorgui to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo & T. Johnson to MN

3. Butler to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo, Waiters & Miami's lottery protected 2019 1st rd pk to MN
(Note: Taking Waiters 3-yr deal would cause me to insist on getting the pick)

4. Butler and Taj to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo, T. Johnson, 2019 unprotected 1st, 2023 top 3 protected 1st
(Note: This deal would create a salary cap challenge for the Wolves next season and would fail to deal with the Gorgui contract. But I'd consider it if it meant getting an extra largely unprotected 1st down the road.)

Whether you agree that any or all of these deals provide fair value to the Wolves obviously depends on your view of Richardson and Adebayo.

As others have mentioned, Richardson put up nice numbers last season - comparable to Butler's stats at the same point in his career and he's still only 25 years old, likely with more upside ahead of him. For those who haven't, I suggest you take a look at Richardson's video highlights from last season. He's actually a terrific ballhandler for a wing with nice control as well as chance of speed and direction -- all the things Wiggins isn't. He has a nice looking shot and hustles back on defense. He has the length and athleticism to block shots and has quick hands on the defensive end.

Adebayo is by no means a sure thing. But his numbers as a rookie last season are on par with Taj Gibson when extrapolated to Gibson's 33 minutes per game. Bam is a tremendous athlete with good length and he's on a very cap-friendly rookie scale contract. Tyler Johnson is clearly overpaid, but his $19 million per year has one year less on it than Gorgui's $16 million per year deal. And Johnson is a decent wing with a nice 3-point shot. He's also a very good ballhandler who actually ran the point for Miami a few times last season.

Would I ever take Whiteside in a Butler deal? I wouldn't. But I could live with it if we also got both Richardson and Adebayo. I just don't see Miami giving up both Whiteside and Adebayo.

That's a well laid out post Lip. A couple things that seem common sense when it comes to thesedeals are.

If Dieng goes to Miami a center need to leave Miami. Note Woj said the Wolves balked at sending draft picks to the Kings which is a good thing IMO.

I don't think Miami would want to deal both Richardson and Winslow that would level them with just McGruder as their only young promising wing and that might not be enough. It also seems like it would make sense that one of their guards Tyler Johnson or Waiters moves on.

The reality is that this deal is about talent and assets coming back and then figuring out the salaries to match and who is ok with what coming back in terms of contracts which makes for quite the dance. If that wasn't much of an issue obviously it would be easier to come to terms with the Heat (as well as a number of other teams).

Also Lip I'm with you on Richardson having more offensive ability than often is given him credit for. His jumper looks like it might be pretty versatile as well as the things you pointed out. He isn't proven yet but if he is the guy he looked tone last year and improved his offense some he could be an Otto Porter type which would be a really nice addition. Maybe he becomes the next Kris Middleton or Tobias Harris type guy. I think it's likely he ends up to be a Covington type which still seeems like a really nice piece to add to this squad.

[Duke13]

You keep saying the Heat would be the odds on favorite for the 4th seed with a Butler trade. I'd say Milwaukee would be favorited over them with Indiana right there. I think the 4th seed is possible but to say they would be the favorite would be pushing it I think.

[Lipoli390]

You keep saying the Heat would be the odds on favorite for the 4th seed with a Butler trade. I'd say Milwaukee would be favorited over them with Indiana right there. I think the 4th seed is possible but to say they would be the favorite would be pushing it I think.

OK - Let's assume you're right that Milwaukee and Indiana would be the favorites for the 4th seed. That would mean the Heat, without Butler, would have very little chance if any of cracking the top 4. That makes a deal for Butler even more imperative for the Heat because, if you're right, Butler is essential for Miami to have a decent chance at the 4th seed. Whether you are right or not doesn't change the analysis. Miami should logically have a very strong interest in trading for Butler and they can have a very solid supporting cast around Butler even after giving up both Richardson and Abedayo. That's my only point.

[Lipoli390]

Let's step back and look at the situation with the Miami Heat and Butler. There have been a lot of reports about what's been going on between the Wolves and Heat regarding Jimmy Butler. We don't know all the details and it's hard to figure out exactly what's gone down. But I think we know enough to very safely assume the following:

1. The Heat really want Jimmy Butler. Not only have we seen repeated reports to that effect, but the case for Butler in Miami is compelling. We saw Butler take the Wolves from 31 wins to 47 wins in one season. While it's true that the addition of Taj and development of KAT had something to do with that one-season uptick, there should be no doubt that it was primarily related to the addition of Butler. The Miami Heat won 44 games last season and finished 6th in the East. Even if the Heat were to relinquish Richardson, Adebayo and Tyler Johnson, for example, adding Butler would instantly make the Heat the odds on favorite for the 4th seed in the East and home court advantage in the first round. Butler would be surrounded in the starting lineup by Dragic, Waiters or Winslow, Olynyk and Whiteside. That starting group would have a strong supporting bench consisting of Ellington, Dwayne Wade, Waiters or Winslow, McGrueder and James Johnson. That roster might not seem overly impressive by Western Conference standards, but it would be a team to be reckoned with in the East. The fan based in Miami would be excited and the Heat would be relevant again. Pat Riley is a smart basketball guy, so he obviously knows all of this. And he also knows the Heat won't have cap space next summer to compete for any significant free agents, including Jimmy. So this is his chance and he's not going to let a fair deal slip by.

2. Jimmy wants to play for the Heat. Again, we've seen multiple reports from reliable reporters that Jimmy wants to go to Miami. And again, those reports find strong confirmation in common sense. First of all, Jimmy knows how good Miami can be with him there and sees the opportunity to finish in the top 4 and win at least one playoff series. Second, the allure of Southbeach is probably something attractive to the Jimmy Butler of today, who seems pretty full of himself. Finally, it makes sense that Jimmy would want to play for an organization run by a tough, hard-nosed basketball legend like Pat Riley. Why does it matter that Jimmy wants to go to Miami? Because that means his agent will likely be pushing both sides, including the Heat, to get a deal done. As we all know, agents have a lot of clout in today's NBA so an agent pushing to do a deal carries a lot of weight. Of course, Butler's agent is likely pushing both sides, but the good news is that he'll be pushing Miami at least as hard as he pushes the Wolves.

3. Dwayne Wade is a close friend of Butler and wants him there. This is probably the least important factor, but it's still a factor. Pat Riley and Miami's owner have tremendous respect for Wade. Bringing in Butler for a major playoff run in Wade's last season would be a great storyline that would bring a lot of special excitement to the Heat organization and their fan base.

Of course, this doesn't mean the Wolves can simply send Pat their wish list and expect to get everything they want. So the test for the Heat as to whether they would do a particular deal is whether the trade they make for Butler would leave an adequate supporting cast in place around him to make Miami the odds on favorite for the 4th seed with potential to do even better. Here are the deals that I believe would meet that test for Miami while still proving the Wolves with a reasonable return (all meeting the salary match requirement, listed in my order of preference):

1. Butler to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo & Winslow to MN
(Note: Probably couldn't also get Miami's 2019 pk and wouldn't need it to get fair value)

2. Butler & Gorgui to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo & T. Johnson to MN

3. Butler to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo, Waiters & Miami's lottery protected 2019 1st rd pk to MN
(Note: Taking Waiters 3-yr deal would cause me to insist on getting the pick)

4. Butler and Taj to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo, T. Johnson, 2019 unprotected 1st, 2023 top 3 protected 1st
(Note: This deal would create a salary cap challenge for the Wolves next season and would fail to deal with the Gorgui contract. But I'd consider it if it meant getting an extra largely unprotected 1st down the road.)

Whether you agree that any or all of these deals provide fair value to the Wolves obviously depends on your view of Richardson and Adebayo.

As others have mentioned, Richardson put up nice numbers last season - comparable to Butler's stats at the same point in his career and he's still only 25 years old, likely with more upside ahead of him. For those who haven't, I suggest you take a look at Richardson's video highlights from last season. He's actually a terrific ballhandler for a wing with nice control as well as chance of speed and direction -- all the things Wiggins isn't. He has a nice looking shot and hustles back on defense. He has the length and athleticism to block shots and has quick hands on the defensive end.

Adebayo is by no means a sure thing. But his numbers as a rookie last season are on par with Taj Gibson when extrapolated to Gibson's 33 minutes per game. Bam is a tremendous athlete with good length and he's on a very cap-friendly rookie scale contract. Tyler Johnson is clearly overpaid, but his $19 million per year has one year less on it than Gorgui's $16 million per year deal. And Johnson is a decent wing with a nice 3-point shot. He's also a very good ballhandler who actually ran the point for Miami a few times last season.

Would I ever take Whiteside in a Butler deal? I wouldn't. But I could live with it if we also got both Richardson and Adebayo. I just don't see Miami giving up both Whiteside and Adebayo.

That's a well laid out post Lip. A couple things that seem common sense when it comes to thesedeals are.

If Dieng goes to Miami a center need to leave Miami. Note Woj said the Wolves balked at sending draft picks to the Kings which is a good thing IMO.

I don't think Miami would want to deal both Richardson and Winslow that would level them with just McGruder as their only young promising wing and that might not be enough. It also seems like it would make sense that one of their guards Tyler Johnson or Waiters moves on.

The reality is that this deal is about talent and assets coming back and then figuring out the salaries to match and who is ok with what coming back in terms of contracts which makes for quite the dance. If that wasn't much of an issue obviously it would be easier to come to terms with the Heat (as well as a number of other teams).

Also Lip I'm with you on Richardson having more offensive ability than often is given him credit for. His jumper looks like it might be pretty versatile as well as the things you pointed out. He isn't proven yet but if he is the guy he looked tone last year and improved his offense some he could be an Otto Porter type which would be a really nice addition. Maybe he becomes the next Kris Middleton or Tobias Harris type guy. I think it's likely he ends up to be a Covington type which still seeems like a really nice piece to add to this squad.

Monster - I think your Middleton comparison is probably the best one. I went back and watched video of Richardson again and compared it to video highlights of Covington and Porter. Richardson looks like a much better ballhandler than Covington or Porter. He seems much more on par with Middleton as an all-around player, although he hasn't shown yet that he can shoot threes on par with Middleton. I see Richardson as both a SF and SG. Harris seems bigger than Richardson and seems more of a SF/PF. Check our the video highlights of all these guys and let me know what you think.

[Monster]

Let's step back and look at the situation with the Miami Heat and Butler. There have been a lot of reports about what's been going on between the Wolves and Heat regarding Jimmy Butler. We don't know all the details and it's hard to figure out exactly what's gone down. But I think we know enough to very safely assume the following:

1. The Heat really want Jimmy Butler. Not only have we seen repeated reports to that effect, but the case for Butler in Miami is compelling. We saw Butler take the Wolves from 31 wins to 47 wins in one season. While it's true that the addition of Taj and development of KAT had something to do with that one-season uptick, there should be no doubt that it was primarily related to the addition of Butler. The Miami Heat won 44 games last season and finished 6th in the East. Even if the Heat were to relinquish Richardson, Adebayo and Tyler Johnson, for example, adding Butler would instantly make the Heat the odds on favorite for the 4th seed in the East and home court advantage in the first round. Butler would be surrounded in the starting lineup by Dragic, Waiters or Winslow, Olynyk and Whiteside. That starting group would have a strong supporting bench consisting of Ellington, Dwayne Wade, Waiters or Winslow, McGrueder and James Johnson. That roster might not seem overly impressive by Western Conference standards, but it would be a team to be reckoned with in the East. The fan based in Miami would be excited and the Heat would be relevant again. Pat Riley is a smart basketball guy, so he obviously knows all of this. And he also knows the Heat won't have cap space next summer to compete for any significant free agents, including Jimmy. So this is his chance and he's not going to let a fair deal slip by.

2. Jimmy wants to play for the Heat. Again, we've seen multiple reports from reliable reporters that Jimmy wants to go to Miami. And again, those reports find strong confirmation in common sense. First of all, Jimmy knows how good Miami can be with him there and sees the opportunity to finish in the top 4 and win at least one playoff series. Second, the allure of Southbeach is probably something attractive to the Jimmy Butler of today, who seems pretty full of himself. Finally, it makes sense that Jimmy would want to play for an organization run by a tough, hard-nosed basketball legend like Pat Riley. Why does it matter that Jimmy wants to go to Miami? Because that means his agent will likely be pushing both sides, including the Heat, to get a deal done. As we all know, agents have a lot of clout in today's NBA so an agent pushing to do a deal carries a lot of weight. Of course, Butler's agent is likely pushing both sides, but the good news is that he'll be pushing Miami at least as hard as he pushes the Wolves.

3. Dwayne Wade is a close friend of Butler and wants him there. This is probably the least important factor, but it's still a factor. Pat Riley and Miami's owner have tremendous respect for Wade. Bringing in Butler for a major playoff run in Wade's last season would be a great storyline that would bring a lot of special excitement to the Heat organization and their fan base.

Of course, this doesn't mean the Wolves can simply send Pat their wish list and expect to get everything they want. So the test for the Heat as to whether they would do a particular deal is whether the trade they make for Butler would leave an adequate supporting cast in place around him to make Miami the odds on favorite for the 4th seed with potential to do even better. Here are the deals that I believe would meet that test for Miami while still proving the Wolves with a reasonable return (all meeting the salary match requirement, listed in my order of preference):

1. Butler to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo & Winslow to MN
(Note: Probably couldn't also get Miami's 2019 pk and wouldn't need it to get fair value)

2. Butler & Gorgui to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo & T. Johnson to MN

3. Butler to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo, Waiters & Miami's lottery protected 2019 1st rd pk to MN
(Note: Taking Waiters 3-yr deal would cause me to insist on getting the pick)

4. Butler and Taj to Miami
Richardson, Adebayo, T. Johnson, 2019 unprotected 1st, 2023 top 3 protected 1st
(Note: This deal would create a salary cap challenge for the Wolves next season and would fail to deal with the Gorgui contract. But I'd consider it if it meant getting an extra largely unprotected 1st down the road.)

Whether you agree that any or all of these deals provide fair value to the Wolves obviously depends on your view of Richardson and Adebayo.

As others have mentioned, Richardson put up nice numbers last season - comparable to Butler's stats at the same point in his career and he's still only 25 years old, likely with more upside ahead of him. For those who haven't, I suggest you take a look at Richardson's video highlights from last season. He's actually a terrific ballhandler for a wing with nice control as well as chance of speed and direction -- all the things Wiggins isn't. He has a nice looking shot and hustles back on defense. He has the length and athleticism to block shots and has quick hands on the defensive end.

Adebayo is by no means a sure thing. But his numbers as a rookie last season are on par with Taj Gibson when extrapolated to Gibson's 33 minutes per game. Bam is a tremendous athlete with good length and he's on a very cap-friendly rookie scale contract. Tyler Johnson is clearly overpaid, but his $19 million per year has one year less on it than Gorgui's $16 million per year deal. And Johnson is a decent wing with a nice 3-point shot. He's also a very good ballhandler who actually ran the point for Miami a few times last season.

Would I ever take Whiteside in a Butler deal? I wouldn't. But I could live with it if we also got both Richardson and Adebayo. I just don't see Miami giving up both Whiteside and Adebayo.

That's a well laid out post Lip. A couple things that seem common sense when it comes to thesedeals are.

If Dieng goes to Miami a center need to leave Miami. Note Woj said the Wolves balked at sending draft picks to the Kings which is a good thing IMO.

I don't think Miami would want to deal both Richardson and Winslow that would level them with just McGruder as their only young promising wing and that might not be enough. It also seems like it would make sense that one of their guards Tyler Johnson or Waiters moves on.

The reality is that this deal is about talent and assets coming back and then figuring out the salaries to match and who is ok with what coming back in terms of contracts which makes for quite the dance. If that wasn't much of an issue obviously it would be easier to come to terms with the Heat (as well as a number of other teams).

Also Lip I'm with you on Richardson having more offensive ability than often is given him credit for. His jumper looks like it might be pretty versatile as well as the things you pointed out. He isn't proven yet but if he is the guy he looked tone last year and improved his offense some he could be an Otto Porter type which would be a really nice addition. Maybe he becomes the next Kris Middleton or Tobias Harris type guy. I think it's likely he ends up to be a Covington type which still seeems like a really nice piece to add to this squad.

Monster - I think your Middleton comparison is probably the best one. I went back and watched video of Richardson again and compared it to video highlights of Covington and Porter. Richardson looks like a much better ballhandler than Covington or Porter. He seems much more on par with Middleton as an all-around player, although he hasn't shown yet that he can shoot threes on par with Middleton. I see Richardson as both a SF and SG. Harris seems bigger than Richardson and seems more of a SF/PF. Check our the video highlights of all these guys and let me know what you think.

We see the same things I've watched some highlights. I mentioned Harris as a guy that basically has flown under the taser (still probably is) and turned into a pretty nice player. I agree he is more of a 4/3.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Question for the peanut gallery:

What do you covet more? Justise Winslow or a late first-round pick?

[kekgeek]

Question for the peanut gallery:

What do you covet more? Justise Winslow or a late first-round pick?

Me personally I would take the late 1st. I mean Winslow can get better but it worries me that he is not a good shooter in a league eliminating non shooters. He is also a RFA this offseason and he didn't break out with spolstra.

I will take the variance in the pick over Winslow

[Monster]

Question for the peanut gallery:

What do you covet more? Justise Winslow or a late first-round pick?

Me personally I would take the late 1st. I mean Winslow can get better but it worries me that he is not a good shooter in a league eliminating non shooters. He is also a RFA this offseason and he didn't break out with spolstra.

I will take the variance in the pick over Winslow

This is similar to where I am also. I was a big Winslow fan coming into the draft and he has not planned out so far although it seemed like he made some good strides last season. I still like him but with different set of expectations. The advanced numbers on the defensive end are intruiging.

Let's put it this way. I think Winslow is more likely to be a worthwhile NBA player over the pick so in that way I would like to get him in a deal. The problems are would he get enough playing time next season to evaluate him and what kind of salary would he end up commanding? Like it's been said in the last couple days on this forum you can never have too many wings but I think if you get Winslow back you have to have some sort of plan for him. Meanwhile the pick allows you to pick a relatively cheap young player and you can put off till next season what young player that might be. Maybe you realize you need a PG or PF or best shooter available (BSA). Sometimes there is value in delaying adding to your roster. It also might not hurt to have that delayed asset available for the next GM and coach to pick someone they actually want.

I guess another way to look at this is what if Richardson wasn't on the table and they offered Bam instead. Then I would want Winslow for sure and would value him over a pick (I wouldn't like a deal headlined by Bam) It seems likely we will get Richardson in a deal so that's probably not a significant thing to consider.

[Lipoli390]

Question for the peanut gallery:

What do you covet more? Justise Winslow or a late first-round pick?

Me personally I would take the late 1st. I mean Winslow can get better but it worries me that he is not a good shooter in a league eliminating non shooters. He is also a RFA this offseason and he didn't break out with spolstra.

I will take the variance in the pick over Winslow

This is similar to where I am also. I was a big Winslow fan coming into the draft and he has not planned out so far although it seemed like he made some good strides last season. I still like him but with different set of expectations. The advanced numbers on the defensive end are intruiging.

Let's put it this way. I think Winslow is more likely to be a worthwhile NBA player over the pick so in that way I would like to get him in a deal. The problems are would he get enough playing time next season to evaluate him and what kind of salary would he end up commanding? Like it's been said in the last couple days on this forum you can never have too many wings but I think if you get Winslow back you have to have some sort of plan for him. Meanwhile the pick allows you to pick a relatively cheap young player and you can put off till next season what young player that might be. Maybe you realize you need a PG or PF or best shooter available (BSA). Sometimes there is value in delaying adding to your roster. It also might not hurt to have that delayed asset available for the next GM and coach to pick someone they actually want.

I guess another way to look at this is what if Richardson wasn't on the table and they offered Bam instead. Then I would want Winslow for sure and would value him over a pick (I wouldn't like a deal headlined by Bam) It seems likely we will get Richardson in a deal so that's probably not a significant thing to consider.

My opinion and analysis are the same as Monster's. Like Monster, I'd take Winslow over the pick if Bam but not Richardson were included in the deal. I might also take Winslow over the pick if he had 3 seasons left on his team-friendly contract. Otherwise, I'd take the pick. I think Winslow is likely to be no more than a one-year rental and if he breaks through in a big way, no guarantee we could get him to re-sign here. As Monster pointed out, the pick is more versatile for use to fill different needs depending on our situation next summer. I'll add that first round picks are also valuable trade assets, having value that typically exceeds the players likely to be available with the pick.