Minnesota Sports Forum

BloopOracle wrote:http://www.blogabull.com/2016/4/19/11456450/beat-writers-spilling-the-beans

hmmm doesn't seem like there is much blame to be put on Thibs based on this

This was pretty damn interesting.

The notion that Wiggins isn't already driven to excel is just silly. He already works extremely hard and weak minded is the last thing I would call him.

Look, you can place your head in the sand and pretend all the negative Thibodeau reports are baseless. I happen to believe where there's smoke there's fire. But I'm willing to be open minded. I'm not completely against hiring the guy. However, it's completely reasonable to at least question whether he's the best fit for this franchise at this point in time. Jeez, with some of you guys it seems we could take the statue of Red Auerbach away and let Thibs stand there. Come down to earth a bit.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The notion that Wiggins isn't already driven to excel is just silly. He already works extremely hard and weak minded is the last thing I would call him.

Look, you can place your head in the sand and pretend all the negative Thibodeau reports are baseless. I happen to believe where there's smoke there's fire. But I'm willing to be open minded. I'm not completely against hiring the guy. However, it's completely reasonable to at least question whether he's the best fit for this franchise at this point in time. Jeez, with some of you guys it seems we could take the statue of Red Auerbach away and let Thibs stand there. Come down to earth a bit.

Red Auerbach wouldn't be right for this team. The cigar smoke just doesn't work for our group of players.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The notion that Wiggins isn't already driven to excel is just silly. He already works extremely hard and weak minded is the last thing I would call him.

Look, you can place your head in the sand and pretend all the negative Thibodeau reports are baseless. I happen to believe where there's smoke there's fire. But I'm willing to be open minded. I'm not completely against hiring the guy. However, it's completely reasonable to at least question whether he's the best fit for this franchise at this point in time. Jeez, with some of you guys it seems we could take the statue of Red Auerbach away and let Thibs stand there. Come down to earth a bit.

But on the serious side I agree 100%. The notion that just getting Wiggins to "try harder" as your approach to coaching is the worst thing you could do for someone with his personality. He is a thinker, and more calculated. I think it insults his intelligence to make effort your major point in getting across to him. I would be much more detail oriented. He's already shown improvement on some areas. Build on that to address others from a positive perspective, not just get in his grill to show more hustle.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The notion that Wiggins isn't already driven to excel is just silly. He already works extremely hard and weak minded is the last thing I would call him.

Look, you can place your head in the sand and pretend all the negative Thibodeau reports are baseless. I happen to believe where there's smoke there's fire. But I'm willing to be open minded. I'm not completely against hiring the guy. However, it's completely reasonable to at least question whether he's the best fit for this franchise at this point in time. Jeez, with some of you guys it seems we could take the statue of Red Auerbach away and let Thibs stand there. Come down to earth a bit.

1. Nobody said Wiggins wasn't driven to excel. Some of us are saying he needs somebody on his ass harder, pushing him more than he has to this point. I think there's so much more Andrew's capable of, but we haven't seen it yet. A harder style of coaching could help, IMO.

2. I think Hicks said Wiggins would be weak-minded if he wanted to leave because Thibs was too hard on him, which I agree with. Thibs demands full effort. If Andrew has a problem with that, maybe I have a problem with Andrew.

3. Not all of the reports, but a lot of the reports do seem like horseshit that's been spun to make Thibs look worse than the Bulls FO. Again, they are just as, if not more, guilty for whatever went down behind closed doors.

4. Maybe I'm too positive about him (though I have stated multiple times that there are some concerns; not necessarily a perfect hire), but specifically you and LST are too critical of him. That gets just as annoying as me talking him up, I'm sure.

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The notion that Wiggins isn't already driven to excel is just silly. He already works extremely hard and weak minded is the last thing I would call him.

Look, you can place your head in the sand and pretend all the negative Thibodeau reports are baseless. I happen to believe where there's smoke there's fire. But I'm willing to be open minded. I'm not completely against hiring the guy. However, it's completely reasonable to at least question whether he's the best fit for this franchise at this point in time. Jeez, with some of you guys it seems we could take the statue of Red Auerbach away and let Thibs stand there. Come down to earth a bit.

But on the serious side I agree 100%. The notion that just getting Wiggins to "try harder" as your approach to coaching is the worst thing you could do for someone with his personality. He is a thinker, and more calculated. I think it insults his intelligence to make effort your major point in getting across to him. I would be much more detail oriented. He's already shown improvement on some areas. Build on that to address others from a positive perspective, not just get in his grill to show more hustle.

Maybe.

But do any of really know that Thibodeau wouldn't do that? Or that Van Gundy would? Or Brooks? Or Joerger? Or Ollie? Or whomever?

Again, I get it. We all have our favorites. It's great that there are so many options. Good options. I just find some of the claims about knowing exactly what we're going to get personality wise with some of the candidates to be a bit presumptive. I don't know if Van Gundy is super duper detail oriented or if Thibodeau screams at everybody for everything... but I don't think any of us really do.

With coaching... like with players... it's about results. And as fans far removed from the action, it's fun to speculate and assume... but none of us know a damn thing about these guys (players/coaches) or what really drives them.

So I'm going to stick with things I try to normally stick with in my takes... more tangible things. Call it sticking my head in the sand... I call it being pragmatic by using the information I have and making fewer guesses or assumptions.

I lean towards Van Gundy because I view it as a safer move. I would be fine with Thibs and he would actually be my top choice if the noise about him running players into the ground proved to be nonsense. We are set up for a long run, I want a leader that will help us have a nice sustained long run. I just go by reports that could very well be 100% wrong. It's the wolves job to do their research and get this right.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The notion that Wiggins isn't already driven to excel is just silly. He already works extremely hard and weak minded is the last thing I would call him.

Look, you can place your head in the sand and pretend all the negative Thibodeau reports are baseless. I happen to believe where there's smoke there's fire. But I'm willing to be open minded. I'm not completely against hiring the guy. However, it's completely reasonable to at least question whether he's the best fit for this franchise at this point in time. Jeez, with some of you guys it seems we could take the statue of Red Auerbach away and let Thibs stand there. Come down to earth a bit.

But on the serious side I agree 100%. The notion that just getting Wiggins to "try harder" as your approach to coaching is the worst thing you could do for someone with his personality. He is a thinker, and more calculated. I think it insults his intelligence to make effort your major point in getting across to him. I would be much more detail oriented. He's already shown improvement on some areas. Build on that to address others from a positive perspective, not just get in his grill to show more hustle.

Maybe.

But do any of really know that Thibodeau wouldn't do that? Or that Van Gundy would? Or Brooks? Or Joerger? Or Ollie? Or whomever?

Again, I get it. We all have our favorites. It's great that there are so many options. Good options. I just find some of the claims about knowing exactly what we're going to get personality wise with some of the candidates to be a bit presumptive. I don't know if Van Gundy is super duper detail oriented or if Thibodeau screams at everybody for everything... but I don't think any of us really do.

With coaching... like with players... it's about results. And as fans far removed from the action, it's fun to speculate and assume... but none of us know a damn thing about these guys (players/coaches) or what really drives them.

True, but there were Chicago media people who clearly recognize that clearly there were players had gotten exhausted with Thibs culture. That was fairly obvious from what the Chicago reporter was saying in the podcast I cited earlier. I would hardly call his insight speculation, he was around the team all the time. To write off that account as hersay or unsubstantiated is crazy. That being considered, it seemed he still would have hired Thibs as a coach. What is definitely known from the Chicago situation from how I see it:

1. Thibs was having trouble with management
2. Thibs wouldn't work with an expert they brought on to consult on playing time and player health (Would the same stress happen with Kanter?) - this could have been that he already was having trouble with management
3. There were players who wouldn't go on the record who were worn out

All of these issues could be various degrees of seriousness, but all by necessity need to be accounted for by Thibs when he wants a new job.

TRKO wrote:I lean towards Van Gundy because I view it as a safer move. I would be fine with Thibs and he would actually be my top choice if the noise about him running players into the ground proved to be nonsense. We are set up for a long run, I want a leader that will help us have a nice sustained long run. I just go by reports that could very well be 100% wrong. It's the wolves job to do their research and get this right.

I'm wondering how Van Gundy is the safe move. You realize he hasn't coached in nearly a decade, right? The league has since very much changed. Keep in mind Flip was old school in his coaching methods, some of which got fairly criticized here. Van Gundy is cut from the same cloth. And as noted, his Houston teams struggled in the playoffs. Also, as Abe said, you don't really know how he interacts with players either.

I think Van Gundy could do a swell job here, but saying he's the safer pick doesn't make much sense to me. He has his potential negatives too.

Camden0916 wrote:

TRKO wrote:I lean towards Van Gundy because I view it as a safer move. I would be fine with Thibs and he would actually be my top choice if the noise about him running players into the ground proved to be nonsense. We are set up for a long run, I want a leader that will help us have a nice sustained long run. I just go by reports that could very well be 100% wrong. It's the wolves job to do their research and get this right.

I'm wondering how Van Gundy is the safe move. You realize he hasn't coached in nearly a decade, right? The league has since very much changed. Keep in mind Flip was old school in his coaching methods, some of which got fairly criticized here. Van Gundy is cut from the same cloth. And as noted, his Houston teams struggled in the playoffs. Also, as Abe said, you don't really know how he interacts with players either.

I think Van Gundy could do a swell job here, but saying he's the safer pick doesn't make much sense to me. He has his potential negatives too.

As far as burning the team out, I think Van Gundy is a safer bet. Yes the game has changed significantly since he coached last, but Houston was one of the first teams to embrace analytics and the started under Van Gundy's tenure if I remember correctly. He has been around the game and knows the game has changed, as did Steve Kerr. All I can go by is reports and while they may be mixed, the negative reports on players being worn out by Thibs is a concern for me. It may be baseless, I have no way of proving it though. The Wolves do and should really did deep on it. Thibs is a heck of a coach, but we are set up for a huge 10 year window. We need a coach that does the best job of sustaining that long term success.