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Re: Might as well talk draft....
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:52 am
by Monster
lipoli390 wrote:Camden wrote:I think the Wolves are pretty set at point guard in the present and future as I believe D'Angelo Russell is quietly one of the more dynamic lead guards in the league, and Jordan McLaughlin is a quality backup at the position, BUT...
I really like Tyrell Terry. I probably have him higher on my board than most that I've seen and I think he'll easily outperform his draft slot. We've debated about who the best shooter is in this draft and I think it's this kid. Spot-up, catch-and-shoot, coming off screens, off the dribble -- he's more than capable in different situations.
Terry shot 40.8-percent from three on 4.9 attempts per game. That's not necessarily blistering, but it's quite good especially for a freshman. Ironically, it's the same three-point percentage that Jamal Murray shot at Kentucky several years ago albeit on less attempts. Terry shot 42-percent from deep on spot-up threes (38 attempts) and 57.9-percent off screens (11 attempts) in his lone season at Stanford. Obviously, you'd like to see those attempts higher, but they help paint the picture of what his strengths are.
Terry's also quietly an elite finisher at the rim -- 61.5-percent shooting at the rim -- and a sneaky good defender despite his slight frame. He reminds me of Tyus Jones on that end, actually.
I like him a lot in this class and the Wolves have reportedly been in contact with him quite a bit during the draft process according to the local guys we rely on for news. I've seen Terry projected to go in the 20's and even as low as the early second-round. Personally, I like him at the back end of the lottery.
Good analysis, Cam. I also read and agree with your other post where you accurately call out his weaknesses.
Regarding Terry's weight, I'll note that Allen Iverson played in the NBA at 165 pounds and he's in the hall of fame. Of course, I'm not suggesting that Terry is the next Iverson, but you get the point. At 160 lbs now, I anticipate Terry bulking up to at least 170 with muscle and no loss of quickness. In fact, adding some fast-twitch muscle might make him a bit quicker.
I'd be strongly inclined to take Terry at #17 if Saddiq Bey and Patrick Williams are off the board. However, you make a good point about need. Like you, I really like McLaughlin as our backup PG. I also think Culver showed him can play some lead guard and part of his value going forward will be his ability to grow into a player who can provide some minutes at that position. So I'm not sold on Terry from a need perspective. But I'm not sure we're at at point where we can count on McLaughlin or Culver to back up DLO. And we could certainly benefit from Terry's shooting. What I like most about Terry is his competitive intensity and high basketball IQ. The more I look at successful draft picks, the more I see those two qualities as the main drivers of NBA success.
Thanks for all the posts about Terry. This sounds a lot like the same things people said about Monte Morris. I'm not too concerned about weight of a 19 year old PG that I'm taking in the middle of the first round or lower. If Tyus Jones was a good 3 point shooter he would be a guy worth paying 15 million a year maybe more. I'd have no problem playing more PGs together if needed. Get me some guys that can play.
Edit: Just watched a couple videos of Terry. That guy can really shoot. I want him.
Re: Might as well talk draft....
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:00 pm
by TheFuture
monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Camden wrote:I think the Wolves are pretty set at point guard in the present and future as I believe D'Angelo Russell is quietly one of the more dynamic lead guards in the league, and Jordan McLaughlin is a quality backup at the position, BUT...
I really like Tyrell Terry. I probably have him higher on my board than most that I've seen and I think he'll easily outperform his draft slot. We've debated about who the best shooter is in this draft and I think it's this kid. Spot-up, catch-and-shoot, coming off screens, off the dribble -- he's more than capable in different situations.
Terry shot 40.8-percent from three on 4.9 attempts per game. That's not necessarily blistering, but it's quite good especially for a freshman. Ironically, it's the same three-point percentage that Jamal Murray shot at Kentucky several years ago albeit on less attempts. Terry shot 42-percent from deep on spot-up threes (38 attempts) and 57.9-percent off screens (11 attempts) in his lone season at Stanford. Obviously, you'd like to see those attempts higher, but they help paint the picture of what his strengths are.
Terry's also quietly an elite finisher at the rim -- 61.5-percent shooting at the rim -- and a sneaky good defender despite his slight frame. He reminds me of Tyus Jones on that end, actually.
I like him a lot in this class and the Wolves have reportedly been in contact with him quite a bit during the draft process according to the local guys we rely on for news. I've seen Terry projected to go in the 20's and even as low as the early second-round. Personally, I like him at the back end of the lottery.
Good analysis, Cam. I also read and agree with your other post where you accurately call out his weaknesses.
Regarding Terry's weight, I'll note that Allen Iverson played in the NBA at 165 pounds and he's in the hall of fame. Of course, I'm not suggesting that Terry is the next Iverson, but you get the point. At 160 lbs now, I anticipate Terry bulking up to at least 170 with muscle and no loss of quickness. In fact, adding some fast-twitch muscle might make him a bit quicker.
I'd be strongly inclined to take Terry at #17 if Saddiq Bey and Patrick Williams are off the board. However, you make a good point about need. Like you, I really like McLaughlin as our backup PG. I also think Culver showed him can play some lead guard and part of his value going forward will be his ability to grow into a player who can provide some minutes at that position. So I'm not sold on Terry from a need perspective. But I'm not sure we're at at point where we can count on McLaughlin or Culver to back up DLO. And we could certainly benefit from Terry's shooting. What I like most about Terry is his competitive intensity and high basketball IQ. The more I look at successful draft picks, the more I see those two qualities as the main drivers of NBA success.
Thanks for all the posts about Terry. This sounds a lot like the same things people said about Monte Morris. I'm not too concerned about weight of a 19 year old PG that I'm taking in the middle of the first round or lower. If Tyus Jones was a good 3 point shooter he would be a guy worth paying 15 million a year maybe more. I'd have no problem playing more PGs together if needed. Get me some guys that can play.
Edit: Just watched a couple videos of Terry. That guy can really shoot. I want him.
Yeah, his release is dangerous. Needs a split second off of a screen, and is very good with a pump fake and relocating.
I was hoping he would be around at 17, but he is on the rise.
Reports are that he recently measured at 6'3 and has put on 15 lbs.
If the Wolves were to go with a Big/Wings at #1 and #17, I wouldn't mind seeing Grant Riller taken in the 2nd to compete with JMac for the 2nd/3rd pg spot or as a spark plug off the bench. Riller is extremely quick, has a tight handle which allows him to get to his spots and knife through defenses, and his pound dribble step-back is pretty. He would be my pick at 33 if Bane or Bey dont fall there.
A mid 2nd to undrafted candidate for me is Mason Jones. Would love to get him on the g-league team. Jones isn't real athletic, at around 6'6 he can hardly dunk, but he plays hard and can really fill it up.
Re: Might as well talk draft....
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:59 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
Chris Crouse (@DCCrouse) just posted this trade idea on Twitter, and I gotta say, I think it's worthy of discussion. It's a three-team deal between Minnesota, Chicago, and Philadelphia that involves the top overall pick.
Each team clearly has different motives in making this trade. Minnesota aims to add young, win-now pieces while trading down in the first round. Chicago aims to add another star player next to Zach LaVine. Philadelphia looks to dump a massive contract without paying a premium in draft capital.
Wolves:
- G/F Josh Richardson (2-year, $22.4M with PO)
- F/C Wendell Carter Jr. (2-year, $12.3M with TO)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via CHI) - No. 4
Bulls:
- C Al Horford (3-year, $81M)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via MIN) - No. 1
Sixers:
- F Otto Porter Jr. (1-year, $28.5M)
- F Jake Layman (2-year, $7.7M)
Re: Might as well talk draft....
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:20 pm
by Monster
Camden0916 wrote:Chris Crouse (@DCCrouse) just posted this trade idea on Twitter, and I gotta say, I think it's worthy of discussion. It's a three-team deal between Minnesota, Chicago, and Philadelphia that involves the top overall pick.
Each team clearly has different motives in making this trade. Minnesota aims to add young, win-now pieces while trading down in the first round. Chicago aims to add another star player next to Zach LaVine. Philadelphia looks to dump a massive contract without paying a premium in draft capital.
Wolves:
- G/F Josh Richardson (2-year, $22.4M with PO)
- F/C Wendell Carter Jr. (2-year, $12.3M with TO)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via CHI) - No. 4
Bulls:
- C Al Horford (3-year, $81M)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via MIN) - No. 1
Sixers:
- F Otto Porter Jr. (1-year, $28.5M)
- F Jake Layman (2-year, $7.7M)
I'd do that deal even without Josh Richardson.
Re: Might as well talk draft....
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:46 pm
by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
monsterpile wrote:Camden0916 wrote:Chris Crouse (@DCCrouse) just posted this trade idea on Twitter, and I gotta say, I think it's worthy of discussion. It's a three-team deal between Minnesota, Chicago, and Philadelphia that involves the top overall pick.
Each team clearly has different motives in making this trade. Minnesota aims to add young, win-now pieces while trading down in the first round. Chicago aims to add another star player next to Zach LaVine. Philadelphia looks to dump a massive contract without paying a premium in draft capital.
Wolves:
- G/F Josh Richardson (2-year, $22.4M with PO)
- F/C Wendell Carter Jr. (2-year, $12.3M with TO)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via CHI) - No. 4
Bulls:
- C Al Horford (3-year, $81M)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via MIN) - No. 1
Sixers:
- F Otto Porter Jr. (1-year, $28.5M)
- F Jake Layman (2-year, $7.7M)
I'd do that deal even without Josh Richardson.
I'd do this deal in a heartbeat. That seems like insane value for Chicago to give up to move up to number 1 from number 4. I think it's way too favored for us to happen though. I'd take Wendell and 4 for number 1 on it's own.
Re: Might as well talk draft....
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:02 pm
by Lipoli390
Camden wrote:Chris Crouse (@DCCrouse) just posted this trade idea on Twitter, and I gotta say, I think it's worthy of discussion. It's a three-team deal between Minnesota, Chicago, and Philadelphia that involves the top overall pick.
Each team clearly has different motives in making this trade. Minnesota aims to add young, win-now pieces while trading down in the first round. Chicago aims to add another star player next to Zach LaVine. Philadelphia looks to dump a massive contract without paying a premium in draft capital.
Wolves:
- G/F Josh Richardson (2-year, $22.4M with PO)
- F/C Wendell Carter Jr. (2-year, $12.3M with TO)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via CHI) - No. 4
Bulls:
- C Al Horford (3-year, $81M)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via MIN) - No. 1
Sixers:
- F Otto Porter Jr. (1-year, $28.5M)
- F Jake Layman (2-year, $7.7M)
That would be a great deal for Minnesota and an OK deal for the Sixers. But I don't see the Bulls giving up both their 4th pick and Wendell Carter for the #1 pick and Horford's pricey 3-year deal. Further, I just don't see the Bulls having much motivation to move up from 4 to 1 in this year's draft -- unless they're totally taken with the potential of Ball, Edwards or Wiseman.
I still see the most likely Wolves deals as pick swaps with Atlanta, Detroit or New. York. The key to a deal with Atlanta would likely be Kevin Huerter. The key to a deal with Detroit would likely be Kennard. In either case, the Wolves would get an elite 3-point shooter as part of the Wolves rotation and would still be in a position to draft at least one of the following: Okongwu, Avdija, Haliburton or Vassell. The key to a pick swap with the Knicks would be their first round picks next year. If the Knicks are really sold on Ball as some (including me) believe they are, then I can see them giving up their own 1st round pick next year with no more than top 3 protection. That might be all we'd get, although I'd try to get more - maybe Knox. Trading into next year's draft should be a priority for the Wolves given the likely strength of that draft and the fact that the Wolves traded both their first and second round picks next year for Russell. Another variation might be the 2021 Mavs unprotected pick, but then in my view the Knicks would also have to give up the their #26 pick this year and another future pick in 2022 or 2023.
Re: Might as well talk draft....
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:03 am
by WildWolf2813
I don't love that trade offer only because I feel like they'll lock themselves into Avdija at #4.
Chicago gets the worst of it in this proposal. Philly walks away with robbery.
And Lip, the Knicks like Ball, but they're not gonna sell the farm for him. I think Rosas will draft Ball hoping they come around but that's a major risk.
Re: Might as well talk draft....
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:15 am
by KG4Ever
Camden wrote:Chris Crouse (@DCCrouse) just posted this trade idea on Twitter, and I gotta say, I think it's worthy of discussion. It's a three-team deal between Minnesota, Chicago, and Philadelphia that involves the top overall pick.
Each team clearly has different motives in making this trade. Minnesota aims to add young, win-now pieces while trading down in the first round. Chicago aims to add another star player next to Zach LaVine. Philadelphia looks to dump a massive contract without paying a premium in draft capital.
Wolves:
- G/F Josh Richardson (2-year, $22.4M with PO)
- F/C Wendell Carter Jr. (2-year, $12.3M with TO)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via CHI) - No. 4
Bulls:
- C Al Horford (3-year, $81M)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via MIN) - No. 1
Sixers:
- F Otto Porter Jr. (1-year, $28.5M)
- F Jake Layman (2-year, $7.7M)
"Worthy of Discussion"? LOL! You pulled some random trade offer from Twitter posted by a guy with hardly any followers. Odds of this deal happening are zero. Its way too lopsided in favor of the Wolves.
Re: Might as well talk draft....
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:26 am
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
KG4Ever wrote:Camden wrote:Chris Crouse (@DCCrouse) just posted this trade idea on Twitter, and I gotta say, I think it's worthy of discussion. It's a three-team deal between Minnesota, Chicago, and Philadelphia that involves the top overall pick.
Each team clearly has different motives in making this trade. Minnesota aims to add young, win-now pieces while trading down in the first round. Chicago aims to add another star player next to Zach LaVine. Philadelphia looks to dump a massive contract without paying a premium in draft capital.
Wolves:
- G/F Josh Richardson (2-year, $22.4M with PO)
- F/C Wendell Carter Jr. (2-year, $12.3M with TO)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via CHI) - No. 4
Bulls:
- C Al Horford (3-year, $81M)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via MIN) - No. 1
Sixers:
- F Otto Porter Jr. (1-year, $28.5M)
- F Jake Layman (2-year, $7.7M)
"Worthy of Discussion"? LOL! You pulled some random trade offer from Twitter posted by a guy with hardly any followers. Odds of this deal happening are zero. Its way too lopsided in favor of the Wolves.
Crouse has a solid following and has written plenty of times for SLAM online. Regardless of that, he could have zero followers and the hypothetical trade he proposed would still be worth discussing even if the conclusion is that the value just doesn't work out for all teams involved. This is a basketball forum at the end of the day.
Lastly, are you naturally a dickhead or do you consciously put forth effort to be one on this site? I've grown tired of your responses altogether.
Re: Might as well talk draft....
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:13 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
khans2k5 wrote:monsterpile wrote:Camden0916 wrote:Chris Crouse (@DCCrouse) just posted this trade idea on Twitter, and I gotta say, I think it's worthy of discussion. It's a three-team deal between Minnesota, Chicago, and Philadelphia that involves the top overall pick.
Each team clearly has different motives in making this trade. Minnesota aims to add young, win-now pieces while trading down in the first round. Chicago aims to add another star player next to Zach LaVine. Philadelphia looks to dump a massive contract without paying a premium in draft capital.
Wolves:
- G/F Josh Richardson (2-year, $22.4M with PO)
- F/C Wendell Carter Jr. (2-year, $12.3M with TO)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via CHI) - No. 4
Bulls:
- C Al Horford (3-year, $81M)
- 2020 First-Round Pick (via MIN) - No. 1
Sixers:
- F Otto Porter Jr. (1-year, $28.5M)
- F Jake Layman (2-year, $7.7M)
I'd do that deal even without Josh Richardson.
I'd do this deal in a heartbeat. That seems like insane value for Chicago to give up to move up to number 1 from number 4. I think it's way too favored for us to happen though. I'd take Wendell and 4 for number 1 on it's own.
Yeah, my initial reaction was that I liked it for Minnesota and Philadelphia, but that Chicago would be giving up quite a bit. However, I could envision them giving up Carter Jr. and No. 4 if they evaluate James Wiseman as a franchise big -- one that has a higher ceiling than any big currently on their roster.