It's time to move on from DLO....

[Monster]

I think the Gobert deal ends the DLO trade discussion. I hereby declare this thread closed!!

But wait Lip! Let's take it one step further....

Question 1: Who see's an extension around the corner?

Question 2: How many people revolt in the streets if it happens?

I'm no Dlo apologist, but the answer may be: this team probably gives us the best change to see the best most consistent version of him, who "him" is is up for great debate!

Here is the new core: Ant, KAT, Rudy, Jaden. I include Jaden because the front office has practically declared him untouchable, even though among the four he has the largest gap between performance and how he's valued as an asset.

So if you feel confident in this core of four guys that are mostly complimentary to each other and can carry a big work load on both ends, then that 5th starter becomes a bit less mission-critical. Conclusion: You don't sign DLO to an extension. And besides, I don't even think DLO and his agent would accept the number our front office would peg his value at even if they were willing to extend him.

Q when I look at that group I see a lack of shot creation off the dribble. I'm not saying the Wolves should sign Russell to an extension (totally agree with your conclusion of where Russell and the Wolves are at on that) but I also think unless McDaniels takes off as a shot creator or something that starting lineup needs someone at guard who can actually score and/or make plays for others not just play D and maybe hit an open 3. I think it's worth noting Boston keeps acquiring ball handlers. To me if there is an extension signed it will be in season after both sides can tell this is gonna work or not even if it could go the wrong direction after X amount of games. I do think the Gobert trade makes Russell staying long term much more likely than before. Again Russell could be traded and it would not shock me either.

I feel like between KAT, Ant, Nowell, and SloMo we have four guys that have some shot creating capabilities. Granted, none of these guys are elite non-PG passers like Jokic or LeBron. But Nowell > Beasley as a ball handler and passer and SloMo is >>> than Vando in that department. So I feel like we are already upgrading in this area with the recent moves this offseason. And I expect Ant to keep improving in this area as he matures.

Does it mean we don't need a real PG? No, but may be the guy that eventually replaces DLO doesn't need to be a $20M+ PG. That's my point. And no, I don't know who that guy is or could be.

You didn't account for the loss of Beverly who is much more of a PG than the 3 and D some people thought he was coming in.

So who are these worthwhile PGs the wolves are gonna sign for the midlevel? That's all the Wolves will have moving forward. That wouldn't have been enough to get Tyus this offseason. Memphis valued him so much as a backup they paid him something like low end starter salary. The real calculus now is whether a possibility overpaid Russell is worth quite a bit more than basically a backup PG we could sign with the midlevel.

Let's be honest here we need to look at the Wolves VERY differently than we have for the past 15+ years. Ownership just spent millions on a POBO and also went for it bringing in an expensive high impact player that also cost a ton in assets. Are they gonna be like...damn we aren't gonna pay Russell that extra 5 million or whatever because...that's just too much. They are going for it here. To SOME extent whether Russell stays could simply be up to how much they are willing to go into the tax. My guess is they are willing to go well into it if needed for a couple years.

Meanwhile Cam and I have laid out how they could pay Russell a nice chunk of money and do it early and have his contract go down so there is less Lux tax ramifications down the line and I will add again it will make him easier to trade as well. Like I've said multiple times I still think it makes sense for both Russell and the Wolves to play this out a while and see what it looks like on the court and if it's going reasonably well then figure out an extension in season.

To me the reality is that the cheaper PG option unless it's in house is basically an unlikely option. The idea that we will be able to sign some competent PG in FA to start on a contender is unlikely. Sure maybe someone takes a cheap deal to try and win a championship but I wouldn't be banking on that. Q I just don't see how you are willing to bank on Nowell and other guys being that good. Could Nowell be the next Jordan Poole or Brunson? Sure but even if I have always thought that type of guy was a possibility that's still far from proven. Even if that happens great now we have a good PG in Russell AND a dynamic bench player maker scorer or Russell moves to the bench. This franchise is now looking to win not figure out how to figure out if one player is gonna be worth every penny of their salary.

[Q-is-here]

First, I wouldn't be surprised if they still move DLO this offseason. In his press conference yesterday, Connelly almost seemed to indicate an interest in making another significant move this offseason, at one point checking with another front office guy before saying something, and then basically saying he shouldn't say any more. I might have misread that, but if they are looking to make another significant move, it's tough to imagine that wouldn't include DLO. And if we're not going to extend him, it makes sense to move him this offseason to get something in return.

But even as an admitted DLO skeptic, I am starting to think it might make sense to extend him for three reasons, the last of which is probably the most important.

1) I used to really dislike DLO because he's overpaid and he doesn't bring toughness or defense and I always thought he was immature, but last year he really changed my mind by improving as an off-ball defender and even as a bit of a vocal leader. He really was a better player last year, even though he did not have a very good playoff series. I still think he's way overpaid, but he was better than I thought last year.

2) With Gobert here, I think he could be more valuable than in the past because he should be very good at hitting Gobert with lobs, and Gobert also helps make his defensive weaknesses more manageable. It's definitely possible he increases his value this season as Cam suggests. If we can extend him at his market value now, it's reasonable to bet his value may go up next year and that contract will be a better deal, either for us, or for us to trade.

3) Locking him into an extension now could give us an asset to trade in the future, and ironically, could even give us the cap flexibility we'd need to stay competitive if the owners are willing to go into the tax. As I understand the rules once a team is over the cap, you can't just sign a free agent when you are over the cap without using one of the exceptions, which are fairly limited. But you can still trade contracts. So let's say we extend DLO for a couple more years at 25 million. Personally, I still think that's a couple million more than what his actual market value would likely be if he were a free agent this summer, but it could look like a decent deal next summer. In that case, even if he doesn't turn out to be a good fit for us, we'd probably be able to trade him next summer or the summer after that to bring in another player making within 15% of making 25 million. As I understand it, if we just let his contract expire, we wouldn't be able to sign a free agent outside of our exceptions since we'll probably still be over the cap next offseason because of KAT and Rudy's contracts. But if we have DLO under contract, we could trade him for somebody who could help us, assuming we still wouldn't want DLO after this year. Does this make sense? In other words, extending DLO at something like 25 million for a couple extra years might be a bit of an overpay, but in part what we'd be paying for is the opportunity to assemble a roster that can (if we choose to do so) have a payroll that goes way over the cap. That ability to spend a lot of money despite being over the cap could end up being pretty valuable to keeping this team as competitive as possible. If I'm misunderstanding how this works with the cap, could somebody explain it to me? Like I'm a child. Or a golden retriever.

Ah yes, Jeremy Irons. Good flick, great performance.

Like I said, I'm no contract/cap expert, so your point #3 and Cam's contract idea may indeed be workable. It's hard to assemble the perfect team and DLO seems far from the perfect PG for this team.

Last season I thought the Celtics had indeed created the perfect playoff team. Two mobile bigs that combined strength, length, and fleet-footedness, one of whom could shoot. Big wings that could defend, create, and score. A couple of defensive bulldog ball handling guards. But in the end they wore out and Steph Curry was the best player on the floor.

None of this matters from a contending perspective unless Ant elbows his way into the Top 5. You just have to have an MVP-level player to win a chip.

[KiwiMatt]

At least the ball is in the front office's court when it comes to DLO and his 30 mil expiring contract. Cap flexibility is going to be the key with Gobert on the books now and extensions coming for Edwards and McDaniels following next season. Extending Nowell during the season will be a top priority for the Wolves front office now that he'll be an UFA in 2023.

Would DLO accept a 1 year 16 mil extension offer? Or a two year 30 mil year? I personally wouldn't want TC to offer him any more. And I really don't see any other teams offering him much more.

[Monster]

At least the ball is in the front office's court when it comes to DLO and his 30 mil expiring contract. Cap flexibility is going to be the key with Gobert on the books now and extensions coming for Edwards and McDaniels following next season. Extending Nowell during the season will be a top priority for the Wolves front office now that he'll be an UFA in 2023.

Would DLO accept a 1 year 16 mil extension offer? Or a two year 30 mil year? I personally wouldn't want TC to offer him any more. And I really don't see any other teams offering him much more.

Come on that's a couple million more what Beverly, Tyus Jones and Beasley are making this year.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

At least the ball is in the front office's court when it comes to DLO and his 30 mil expiring contract. Cap flexibility is going to be the key with Gobert on the books now and extensions coming for Edwards and McDaniels following next season. Extending Nowell during the season will be a top priority for the Wolves front office now that he'll be an UFA in 2023.

Would DLO accept a 1 year 16 mil extension offer? Or a two year 30 mil year? I personally wouldn't want TC to offer him any more. And I really don't see any other teams offering him much more.

No, and I don't think that figure accurately represents his production, talent, or market value. I think it falls way short.

[Coolbreeze44]

Here's my latest thought on DLO. When I heard the Gobert trade go down, I was shocked DLO wasn't part of it. But taking stock several days later it made some sense. We all know DLO was being shopped earlier in the offseason, and maybe still is. The fact he's still on the team, to me, is a direct reflection of his low value around the league. Rosas is still the head idiot when it comes to DLO, and will remain as such until someone else gives up real value for the guy. Don't hold your breath. I suspect efforts to get some real value will continue to frustrate TC, and I can see him playing with the Wolves this year. If we're not a contender at the trade deadline (Good Lord I hope we are), they will give him away to the highest bidder. He might garner a late first round pick, but more likely a couple of seconds. If the Wolves are in contention and DLO is still contributing, they will let him walk at the end of the year for nothing but cap space. Sorry for the Debbie Downer take, but it's my honest assessment at this point.

[Monster]

Here's my latest thought on DLO. When I heard the Gobert trade go down, I was shocked DLO wasn't part of it. But taking stock several days later it made some sense. We all know DLO was being shopped earlier in the offseason, and maybe still is. The fact he's still on the team, to me, is a direct reflection of his low value around the league. Rosas is still the head idiot when it comes to DLO, and will remain as such until someone else gives up real value for the guy. Don't hold your breath. I suspect efforts to get some real value will continue to frustrate TC, and I can see him playing with the Wolves this year. If we're not a contender at the trade deadline (Good Lord I hope we are), they will give him away to the highest bidder. He might garner a late first round pick, but more likely a couple of seconds. If the Wolves are in contention and DLO is still contributing, they will let him walk at the end of the year for nothing but cap space. Sorry for the Debbie Downer take, but it's my honest assessment at this point.

This is all possible except there will be no worthwhile cap space if Russell walks at the end of this season.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Gersson Rosas is somehow the "head idiot" but basically flipped an entire roster of dysfunctional pieces into a 46-win playoff team in three summers while simultaneously accumulating the assets and cap flexibility necessary to make a trade of significance like the one we just witnessed with Rudy Gobert. Rosas also plucked Chris Finch from Toronto's bench and he's been nothing short of impressive since he took over. Rosas delivered the troops and the general to lead them.

When you really make a list of pros and cons for Rosas during his three years you come out with some very heady decision-making and talent discovery -- much more good than bad. Obviously, there were mistakes along the way, but you have to give him credit for also turning those mistakes into wins. Put some respect on his name. The guy is a savvy executive, personal flaws aside, and the Timberwolves wouldn't be in the position they're in without him.

[Coolbreeze44]

Here's my latest thought on DLO. When I heard the Gobert trade go down, I was shocked DLO wasn't part of it. But taking stock several days later it made some sense. We all know DLO was being shopped earlier in the offseason, and maybe still is. The fact he's still on the team, to me, is a direct reflection of his low value around the league. Rosas is still the head idiot when it comes to DLO, and will remain as such until someone else gives up real value for the guy. Don't hold your breath. I suspect efforts to get some real value will continue to frustrate TC, and I can see him playing with the Wolves this year. If we're not a contender at the trade deadline (Good Lord I hope we are), they will give him away to the highest bidder. He might garner a late first round pick, but more likely a couple of seconds. If the Wolves are in contention and DLO is still contributing, they will let him walk at the end of the year for nothing but cap space. Sorry for the Debbie Downer take, but it's my honest assessment at this point.

This is all possible except there will be no worthwhile cap space if Russell walks at the end of this season.

We don't know from year to year what the cap will rise to. There is also the impending media rights negotiations about to take place, that could triple the amount of money taken in by the teams. Every medium to long term contract you sign today will impact what you can do under the new contract. So I disagree with that blanket statement about worthwhile cap space.

[Coolbreeze44]

Gersson Rosas is somehow the "head idiot" but basically flipped an entire roster of dysfunctional pieces into a 46-win playoff team in three summers while simultaneously accumulating the assets and cap flexibility necessary to make a trade of significance like the one we just witnessed with Rudy Gobert. Rosas also plucked Chris Finch from Toronto's bench and he's been nothing short of impressive since he took over. Rosas delivered the troops and the general to lead them.

When you really make a list of pros and cons for Rosas during his three years you come out with some very heady decision-making and talent discovery -- much more good than bad. Obviously, there were mistakes along the way, but you have to give him credit for also turning those mistakes into wins. Put some respect on his name. The guy is a savvy executive, personal flaws aside, and the Timberwolves wouldn't be in the position they're in without him.

My take regarding Rosas being the head idiot has ALWAYS been exclusively and specifically related to his acquisition of DLO. It has nothing to do with any other moves he made during his tenure.