Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:It is sad that with his mediocre stats in the playoffs Wiggins was our best player. As usual we lost as a team. Wiggins played the best D of any our players in the series. But again, team game, team loss. Which is why this Jimmy stuff is so sad. Great talent, but clearly a bad teammate.

Well said, Doper!

thedoper wrote:It is sad that with his mediocre stats in the playoffs Wiggins was our best player. As usual we lost as a team. Wiggins played the best D of any our players in the series. But again, team game, team loss. Which is why this Jimmy stuff is so sad. Great talent, but clearly a bad teammate.

Did he though? Again, we can take the eye test... and we should use this... or looking at stats can also help us judge players.

But even though KAT gets ripped for bad defense during the regular season AND bad offense in the postseason... look closer at his defense in that series. His DBPM is off the charts at 4.7. Nobody has ever mentioned this that I've seen.

And despite all the ripping of KAT offensively (especially games 1 and 2)... he still ended the series better than Wiggins on that side of the court also.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:It is sad that with his mediocre stats in the playoffs Wiggins was our best player. As usual we lost as a team. Wiggins played the best D of any our players in the series. But again, team game, team loss. Which is why this Jimmy stuff is so sad. Great talent, but clearly a bad teammate.

Did he though? Again, we can take the eye test... and we should use this... or looking at stats can also help us judge players.

But even though KAT gets ripped for bad defense during the regular season AND bad offense in the postseason... look closer at his defense in that series. His DBPM is off the charts at 4.7. Nobody has ever mentioned this that I've seen.

And despite all the ripping of KAT offensively (especially games 1 and 2)... he still ended the series better than Wiggins on that side of the court also.

Nobody mentions it because DBPM wouldn't be an effective measure in a 5 game sample size. But KAT was very up and down in the series and had high highs and very low lows. KAT just wasn't as consistent. The real disappointment any way you look at it was and is Butler. He was supposed to bring the maturity.

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:His numbers were grossly skewed due to that 5th game. I realize in a statistical sense all games count. But my point wasn't to indicate how great Wiggins was in the series, but he was better than the guy who didn't take the team plane home.

And Duke, if you don't want to have this same conversation, simly don't start it.

He literally had one good game in the playoffs. In fact, his Game 4 was almost as bad as his game 5. If anything, his one good game skewed him from awfulness to just plain mediocre.

As for Butler, he wasn't great either, but he outplayed Wiggins.

Negative.

thedoper wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:It is sad that with his mediocre stats in the playoffs Wiggins was our best player. As usual we lost as a team. Wiggins played the best D of any our players in the series. But again, team game, team loss. Which is why this Jimmy stuff is so sad. Great talent, but clearly a bad teammate.

Did he though? Again, we can take the eye test... and we should use this... or looking at stats can also help us judge players.

But even though KAT gets ripped for bad defense during the regular season AND bad offense in the postseason... look closer at his defense in that series. His DBPM is off the charts at 4.7. Nobody has ever mentioned this that I've seen.

And despite all the ripping of KAT offensively (especially games 1 and 2)... he still ended the series better than Wiggins on that side of the court also.

Nobody mentions it because DBPM wouldn't be an effective measure in a 5 game sample size. But KAT was very up and down in the series and had high highs and very low lows. KAT just wasn't as consistent. The real disappointment any way you look at it was and is Butler. He was supposed to bring the maturity.

You get it Doper. Any amateur can find a stat to back up just about anything they want to argue. I don't have to look at stats in a 5 game series. I watched every minute of the series and Wig was our best player. Not that it ultimately mattered, but it's simply true.

This discussion has naturally veered off course. It was supposed to be about Butler abandoning the team after the loss. Instead the same individuals make the same comments about the same player because it became convenient to do so. Like we all didn't get it the first 1000 times these comments have been made. I also understand Wig isn't going to become the next Kobe or McGrady. Maybe it's just me but I don't measure him that way. To prove you can find a stat for any argument, Wig is the 6th youngest player in NBA history to score 6000 points. Does it mean he's the 6th best player ever? Absolutely not. But it says something nonetheless. Lower your expectations on the guy and you might be able to gain a little perspective on the other side of the argument.

Back on topic.

Butler threatening to sit out completely unless traded.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/09/27/report-jimmy-butler-wants-to-sit-out-until-timberwolves-trade-him/

crazy-canuck wrote:Back on topic.

Butler threatening to sit out completely unless traded.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/09/27/report-jimmy-butler-wants-to-sit-out-until-timberwolves-trade-him/

I've been having this thought about Jimmy being so tight with football players, in particular Steelers players. Somehow I think there is some influence happening here. This is just really sad, your contract is guaranteed, it could have been so much simpler and better for Jimmy long term.

I guess the one good thing coming out of all this waiting is Jimmy and his camp are getting frustrated Thibs hasn't dealt him yet. I'm good with waiting a little longer if that's the case lol. Let him rot away.

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Back on topic.

Butler threatening to sit out completely unless traded.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/09/27/report-jimmy-butler-wants-to-sit-out-until-timberwolves-trade-him/

I've been having this thought about Jimmy being so tight with football players, in particular Steelers players. Somehow I think there is some influence happening here. This is just really sad, your contract is guaranteed, it could have been so much simpler and better for Jimmy long term.

If true in some ways this makes it easier on Thibs Layden and Glen to wait it out and get a worthwhile deal. Butler doesn't want to play and wont come back to the team? Fine do all your other stuff to get ready for the season and wait for better offers to come in. Sure it's a distraction and it would be better to get this resolved sooner than later but if it really takes time to get these deals done then this buys them some more time. Everyone knows Butler is gonna get dealt it's just what the price is. Teams are gonna try and get him as cheap as they can and hope the pressure makes the Wolves blink first. Thibs ain't gonna give this guy away that's for sure. He got a first round pick for Rubio (and cap space) and he didn't value him anywhere near what he does Butler.

Also I think it's highly likely some team comes out of basically nowhere and makes a deal. OKC came out of nowhere to get PG could they do it again for Butler?

I guess I'm ok with him sitting out, rather than make a dumb trade now out of fear of additional awkwardness of this situation lingering into the season.

Thibs should have dealt with this sooner -- I think we all agree with that.