Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 5:36 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 4:03 pm Jaden up to 15.4 ppg and 64% true shooting for the playoffs. All this while having to live off whatever scraps he can take from the offensive pecking order and last resort creation on his own. He's ready to be the #2 option, I just hope he has the confidence in himself and from the organization to take that step. He's improved his production in the playoffs every year, so he can definitely handle the responsibility in the regular season.

I agree he's taken a big step forward this season and he's always risen to the occasion in the playoffs.

As long as he's our starting SF with Naz or Julius as our starting PF and he's our main wing defender, I don't see it happening, even if he has the capability to do so.

If there ever comes a day where Jaden becomes a full time starting PF, which I think is inevitable at some point as he continues to add "old man strength", and guys like Shannon and/or Clark take on the role of main wing defender, then that definitely frees Jaden up to become more of an offensive focal point. I don't know if that means he'd become a clear cut #2 option, but I could certainly see him averaging 16, 7, and 3 in that kind of role with elite weakside defense and switchability.

Personally, I think the ideal situation for this team is that our #2 option is a dynamic PG that can get you 20 or 30 and make plays off the bounce when Ant is struggling or constantly blitzed. Julius sort of played this role for us, but we've seen the limitation of that approach.

That's a pretty good take and I can't say I disagree with any of it. However, if Jaden has another good summer his talent might just overtake the situation. You can't keep a horse in the stable if he's ready to race.

Indiana and OKC on a collision course for the Finals. The Pacers could be in for a rude awakening.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 5:36 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 4:03 pm Jaden up to 15.4 ppg and 64% true shooting for the playoffs. All this while having to live off whatever scraps he can take from the offensive pecking order and last resort creation on his own. He's ready to be the #2 option, I just hope he has the confidence in himself and from the organization to take that step. He's improved his production in the playoffs every year, so he can definitely handle the responsibility in the regular season.

I agree he's taken a big step forward this season and he's always risen to the occasion in the playoffs.

As long as he's our starting SF with Naz or Julius as our starting PF and he's our main wing defender, I don't see it happening, even if he has the capability to do so.

If there ever comes a day where Jaden becomes a full time starting PF, which I think is inevitable at some point as he continues to add "old man strength", and guys like Shannon and/or Clark take on the role of main wing defender, then that definitely frees Jaden up to become more of an offensive focal point. I don't know if that means he'd become a clear cut #2 option, but I could certainly see him averaging 16, 7, and 3 in that kind of role with elite weakside defense and switchability.

Personally, I think the ideal situation for this team is that our #2 option is a dynamic PG that can get you 20 or 30 and make plays off the bounce when Ant is struggling or constantly blitzed. Julius sort of played this role for us, but we've seen the limitation of that approach.

Any idea who that point guard could be? A lot of the good point guards are either young and not going to be traded or older and on their last few years. I like Nembhard, and feel like Indiana is holding him back with Haliburton as the pg. I don't think they are going to be willing to move him. Maybe Fox becomes available, with the Spurs adding the #2 pick Harper and they already have a young solid guard in Castle. I didn't feel like San Antonio should have traded for Fox to begin with, given their young timeline and they hadn't made the playoffs yet. Trae is probably available, but he can't play defense. Cleveland is upset with Garland again after another poor playoffs, but poor playoff performances by him would still be a thing here. Maybe we luck out and Rob is able to get there one day, but he has a long way to go.

rapsuperstar31 wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 10:39 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 5:36 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 4:03 pm Jaden up to 15.4 ppg and 64% true shooting for the playoffs. All this while having to live off whatever scraps he can take from the offensive pecking order and last resort creation on his own. He's ready to be the #2 option, I just hope he has the confidence in himself and from the organization to take that step. He's improved his production in the playoffs every year, so he can definitely handle the responsibility in the regular season.

I agree he's taken a big step forward this season and he's always risen to the occasion in the playoffs.

As long as he's our starting SF with Naz or Julius as our starting PF and he's our main wing defender, I don't see it happening, even if he has the capability to do so.

If there ever comes a day where Jaden becomes a full time starting PF, which I think is inevitable at some point as he continues to add "old man strength", and guys like Shannon and/or Clark take on the role of main wing defender, then that definitely frees Jaden up to become more of an offensive focal point. I don't know if that means he'd become a clear cut #2 option, but I could certainly see him averaging 16, 7, and 3 in that kind of role with elite weakside defense and switchability.

Personally, I think the ideal situation for this team is that our #2 option is a dynamic PG that can get you 20 or 30 and make plays off the bounce when Ant is struggling or constantly blitzed. Julius sort of played this role for us, but we've seen the limitation of that approach.

Any idea who that point guard could be? A lot of the good point guards are either young and not going to be traded or older and on their last few years. I like Nembhard, and feel like Indiana is holding him back with Haliburton as the pg. I don't think they are going to be willing to move him. Maybe Fox becomes available, with the Spurs adding the #2 pick Harper and they already have a young solid guard in Castle. I didn't feel like San Antonio should have traded for Fox to begin with, given their young timeline and they hadn't made the playoffs yet. Trae is probably available, but he can't play defense. Cleveland is upset with Garland again after another poor playoffs, but poor playoff performances by him would still be a thing here. Maybe we luck out and Rob is able to get there one day, but he has a long way to go.

to the bolded: oddly enough, that's how many people felt about the Wolves acquiring Gobert, that we were unnecessarily speeding up the timeline.

rapsuperstar31 wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 10:39 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 5:36 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 4:03 pm Jaden up to 15.4 ppg and 64% true shooting for the playoffs. All this while having to live off whatever scraps he can take from the offensive pecking order and last resort creation on his own. He's ready to be the #2 option, I just hope he has the confidence in himself and from the organization to take that step. He's improved his production in the playoffs every year, so he can definitely handle the responsibility in the regular season.

I agree he's taken a big step forward this season and he's always risen to the occasion in the playoffs.

As long as he's our starting SF with Naz or Julius as our starting PF and he's our main wing defender, I don't see it happening, even if he has the capability to do so.

If there ever comes a day where Jaden becomes a full time starting PF, which I think is inevitable at some point as he continues to add "old man strength", and guys like Shannon and/or Clark take on the role of main wing defender, then that definitely frees Jaden up to become more of an offensive focal point. I don't know if that means he'd become a clear cut #2 option, but I could certainly see him averaging 16, 7, and 3 in that kind of role with elite weakside defense and switchability.

Personally, I think the ideal situation for this team is that our #2 option is a dynamic PG that can get you 20 or 30 and make plays off the bounce when Ant is struggling or constantly blitzed. Julius sort of played this role for us, but we've seen the limitation of that approach.

Any idea who that point guard could be? A lot of the good point guards are either young and not going to be traded or older and on their last few years. I like Nembhard, and feel like Indiana is holding him back with Haliburton as the pg. I don't think they are going to be willing to move him. Maybe Fox becomes available, with the Spurs adding the #2 pick Harper and they already have a young solid guard in Castle. I didn't feel like San Antonio should have traded for Fox to begin with, given their young timeline and they hadn't made the playoffs yet. Trae is probably available, but he can't play defense. Cleveland is upset with Garland again after another poor playoffs, but poor playoff performances by him would still be a thing here. Maybe we luck out and Rob is able to get there one day, but he has a long way to go.

Rap, Rob Dillingham gets dismissed a lot on this board because of his size and lack of production (playing time?) this season. But it's interesting to me that 3 of the PGs you mention are similar in size to Rob. None of the three are good defenders and Rob doesn't project to be either, but all have proven to be solid offensive contributors at a very young age. And if you examine Rob's college stats, there is a lot to be excited about. He made 44.4% of his 3-pointers (only Garland was slightly better, and he has developed into a consistent 40% 3-point shooter in the pros) while averaging 26 points per 40 minutes. Unlike the other 3 undersized PGs, he was added to a win-now team that had a coach who not only favors a tight rotation, but also had a veteran PG that the coach loved. Add to that the injury he sustained in the middle of the season, and he never really got a chance to show us much other than in garbage time. I really respect Tom Crean's basketball mind, and he said after last year's draft that Rob would be a very good contributor by the second half of his rookie year...well, the injury killed that. But let's not forget that he is only 20 and has been considered an elite prospect ever since the scouts noticed him. Maybe he will never play at the level of an 8th pick, but I'm excited to see what he does in summer league in less than 2 months. I am fairly certain that Finchy and TC have him slotted to be our starting PG of the near future and a guy who will look very good next to Ant. It will be fun to see what happens with this potentially explosive offensive PG.

rapsuperstar31 wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 10:39 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 5:36 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 4:03 pm Jaden up to 15.4 ppg and 64% true shooting for the playoffs. All this while having to live off whatever scraps he can take from the offensive pecking order and last resort creation on his own. He's ready to be the #2 option, I just hope he has the confidence in himself and from the organization to take that step. He's improved his production in the playoffs every year, so he can definitely handle the responsibility in the regular season.

I agree he's taken a big step forward this season and he's always risen to the occasion in the playoffs.

As long as he's our starting SF with Naz or Julius as our starting PF and he's our main wing defender, I don't see it happening, even if he has the capability to do so.

If there ever comes a day where Jaden becomes a full time starting PF, which I think is inevitable at some point as he continues to add "old man strength", and guys like Shannon and/or Clark take on the role of main wing defender, then that definitely frees Jaden up to become more of an offensive focal point. I don't know if that means he'd become a clear cut #2 option, but I could certainly see him averaging 16, 7, and 3 in that kind of role with elite weakside defense and switchability.

Personally, I think the ideal situation for this team is that our #2 option is a dynamic PG that can get you 20 or 30 and make plays off the bounce when Ant is struggling or constantly blitzed. Julius sort of played this role for us, but we've seen the limitation of that approach.

Any idea who that point guard could be? A lot of the good point guards are either young and not going to be traded or older and on their last few years. I like Nembhard, and feel like Indiana is holding him back with Haliburton as the pg. I don't think they are going to be willing to move him. Maybe Fox becomes available, with the Spurs adding the #2 pick Harper and they already have a young solid guard in Castle. I didn't feel like San Antonio should have traded for Fox to begin with, given their young timeline and they hadn't made the playoffs yet. Trae is probably available, but he can't play defense. Cleveland is upset with Garland again after another poor playoffs, but poor playoff performances by him would still be a thing here. Maybe we luck out and Rob is able to get there one day, but he has a long way to go.

Rap, I think Dillingham is the most obvious choice, but yeah, it requires that he actually gets playing time and a little rope from Finch to make mistakes along the way. I don't think he should start next season, but he should absolutely be our primary backup PG.

Setting Rob's physical stature and mediocre rookie year stats aside for a second, I just look at the raw skill set. Anyone who watches him play for more than a couple minutes can see he can do things out there that most other NBA players just aren't capable of. His pocket would be a lot harder to pick than Julius's, that's for sure!

In terms of his rookie year stats, it's not unusual for a 19-year old NBA rookie to struggle. Speaking of Darius Garland, go look at his rookie stats. They're terrible! The good news is that Rob had a positive net rating and he was better defensively than expected. I'm confident his offense will come around.

I'm actually really high on the Dillingham/Clark/Shannon trio and think their collective ceiling is pretty damn high. The three of them actually compliment each other almost perfectly if you think about their strengths and weaknesses. I'd have no problem with those three being our backup 1, 2, and 3 next season.

FNG wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 7:23 am

rapsuperstar31 wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 10:39 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 5:36 pm

I agree he's taken a big step forward this season and he's always risen to the occasion in the playoffs.

As long as he's our starting SF with Naz or Julius as our starting PF and he's our main wing defender, I don't see it happening, even if he has the capability to do so.

If there ever comes a day where Jaden becomes a full time starting PF, which I think is inevitable at some point as he continues to add "old man strength", and guys like Shannon and/or Clark take on the role of main wing defender, then that definitely frees Jaden up to become more of an offensive focal point. I don't know if that means he'd become a clear cut #2 option, but I could certainly see him averaging 16, 7, and 3 in that kind of role with elite weakside defense and switchability.

Personally, I think the ideal situation for this team is that our #2 option is a dynamic PG that can get you 20 or 30 and make plays off the bounce when Ant is struggling or constantly blitzed. Julius sort of played this role for us, but we've seen the limitation of that approach.

Any idea who that point guard could be? A lot of the good point guards are either young and not going to be traded or older and on their last few years. I like Nembhard, and feel like Indiana is holding him back with Haliburton as the pg. I don't think they are going to be willing to move him. Maybe Fox becomes available, with the Spurs adding the #2 pick Harper and they already have a young solid guard in Castle. I didn't feel like San Antonio should have traded for Fox to begin with, given their young timeline and they hadn't made the playoffs yet. Trae is probably available, but he can't play defense. Cleveland is upset with Garland again after another poor playoffs, but poor playoff performances by him would still be a thing here. Maybe we luck out and Rob is able to get there one day, but he has a long way to go.

Rap, Rob Dillingham gets dismissed a lot on this board because of his size and lack of production (playing time?) this season. But it's interesting to me that 3 of the PGs you mention are similar in size to Rob. None of the three are good defenders and Rob doesn't project to be either, but all have proven to be solid offensive contributors at a very young age. And if you examine Rob's college stats, there is a lot to be excited about. He made 44.4% of his 3-pointers (only Garland was slightly better, and he has developed into a consistent 40% 3-point shooter in the pros) while averaging 26 points per 40 minutes. Unlike the other 3 undersized PGs, he was added to a win-now team that had a coach who not only favors a tight rotation, but also had a veteran PG that the coach loved. Add to that the injury he sustained in the middle of the season, and he never really got a chance to show us much other than in garbage time. I really respect Tom Crean's basketball mind, and he said after last year's draft that Rob would be a very good contributor by the second half of his rookie year...well, the injury killed that. But let's not forget that he is only 20 and has been considered an elite prospect ever since the scouts noticed him. Maybe he will never play at the level of an 8th pick, but I'm excited to see what he does in summer league in less than 2 months. I am fairly certain that Finchy and TC have him slotted to be our starting PG of the near future and a guy who will look very good next to Ant. It will be fun to see what happens with this potentially explosive offensive PG.

Yeah I'm not so much dismissing him, but did kind of pencil him as a Malik Monk kind of 6th man for the next few years at least. I would be ecstatic if he can become a reliable starting pg for the team, not just for the regular season but for playoff basketball as well.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 7:24 am

rapsuperstar31 wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 10:39 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 5:36 pm

I agree he's taken a big step forward this season and he's always risen to the occasion in the playoffs.

As long as he's our starting SF with Naz or Julius as our starting PF and he's our main wing defender, I don't see it happening, even if he has the capability to do so.

If there ever comes a day where Jaden becomes a full time starting PF, which I think is inevitable at some point as he continues to add "old man strength", and guys like Shannon and/or Clark take on the role of main wing defender, then that definitely frees Jaden up to become more of an offensive focal point. I don't know if that means he'd become a clear cut #2 option, but I could certainly see him averaging 16, 7, and 3 in that kind of role with elite weakside defense and switchability.

Personally, I think the ideal situation for this team is that our #2 option is a dynamic PG that can get you 20 or 30 and make plays off the bounce when Ant is struggling or constantly blitzed. Julius sort of played this role for us, but we've seen the limitation of that approach.

Any idea who that point guard could be? A lot of the good point guards are either young and not going to be traded or older and on their last few years. I like Nembhard, and feel like Indiana is holding him back with Haliburton as the pg. I don't think they are going to be willing to move him. Maybe Fox becomes available, with the Spurs adding the #2 pick Harper and they already have a young solid guard in Castle. I didn't feel like San Antonio should have traded for Fox to begin with, given their young timeline and they hadn't made the playoffs yet. Trae is probably available, but he can't play defense. Cleveland is upset with Garland again after another poor playoffs, but poor playoff performances by him would still be a thing here. Maybe we luck out and Rob is able to get there one day, but he has a long way to go.

Rap, I think Dillingham is the most obvious choice, but yeah, it requires that he actually gets playing time and a little rope from Finch to make mistakes along the way. I don't think he should start next season, but he should absolutely be our primary backup PG.

Setting Rob's physical stature and mediocre rookie year stats aside for a second, I just look at the raw skill set. Anyone who watches him play for more than a couple minutes can see he can do things out there that most other NBA players just aren't capable of. His pocket would be a lot harder to pick than Julius's, that's for sure!

In terms of his rookie year stats, it's not unusual for a 19-year old NBA rookie to struggle. Speaking of Darius Garland, go look at his rookie stats. They're terrible! The good news is that Rob had a positive net rating and he was better defensively than expected. I'm confident his offense will come around.

I'm actually really high on the Dillingham/Clark/Shannon trio and think their collective ceiling is pretty damn high. The three of them actually compliment each other almost perfectly if you think about their strengths and weaknesses. I'd have no problem with those three being our backup 1, 2, and 3 next season.

Agreed, I'm very high on the Rob/Clark/Shannon trio, and who knows maybe even Minott gets there one day. Add in the 17th pick this year that should bring in a quality young rotation player as well.

I think I am higher than most on a DDV/ANT starting backcourt. With Jaden at SF and Dilly/Clark/Shannon coming off the bench, not to mention Conley's availability for depth, we are sitting pretty well 1 thru 3. It's 4 and 5 that are problematic.

Rudy's warts are infuriating, but I cannot deny the impact he makes on the court with his defense and screening. He's signed for 3 more years -- I can live with that. It's everything else at the 4 and 5 that are so up in the air. Are Randle and/or NAZ the right fit? Are they opting in or out? Does Miller offer anything? What might happen in the draft to help bolster the frontcourt (or maybe even a draft-day trade)?

60WinTim wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 11:01 am I think I am higher than most on a DDV/ANT starting backcourt. With Jaden at SF and Dilly/Clark/Shannon coming off the bench, not to mention Conley's availability for depth, we are sitting pretty well 1 thru 3. It's 4 and 5 that are problematic.

Rudy's warts are infuriating, but I cannot deny the impact he makes on the court with his defense and screening. He's signed for 3 more years -- I can live with that. It's everything else at the 4 and 5 that are so up in the air. Are Randle and/or NAZ the right fit? Are they opting in or out? Does Miller offer anything? What might happen in the draft to help bolster the frontcourt (or maybe even a draft-day trade)?

Tim, I agree that a DDV/Ant starting backcourt (assuming Mike gets traded or is demoted to the bench) is a viable starting backcourt, but just not ideal. At least we don't skip a beat with outside shooting. DDV just lacks sharpness as a PG, often making ill-advised passes and he seems pretty clueless on how to finish when he gets into the paint (i.e. no floater game).

As for the 4 & 5, I think we have to keep Rudy around. He's one of those guys that may annoy the hell out of you, but then you get even more annoyed by his absence as a parade of paint points pile up from the other team. Kek has documented this pretty well over the years!

I'm actually not as worried about the 4 as the modern day 4 can be played by a whole variety of shapes, sizes, and skills so long as you have your primary scorer and defensive anchor out there.

Here are the "bigs" the other three Conference Finalists are playing:

New York - KAT and Mitchell Robinson. That's it. No one else in their rotation is taller than 6'7".

Indiana - Turner, Siakam, and Toppin. Only one is a legit Center.

OKC - iHart and Holmgren. Literally everyone else in their rotation is 6'6" or shorter.

I'm not suggesting that losing both Randle and Reid to free agency or trades wouldn't require some non-trivial replacement, but I do think Jaden could spend a lot more time at the 4 and even Shannon can play there for spells.

One guy to look at as a Rudy backup/insurance is Kevon Looney, as he'll be an unrestricted free agent. He's a pure 5, but he's very solid defensively and is a great rebounder and screen-assist guy, similar to Rudy. That would give us a strong rebounding and defensive 5 on the court at all times, allowing us to streamline the rest of the lineup a bit and perhaps make Julius and Naz less needed.