Camden wrote:Respectfully, some of you are intentionally avoiding the questions I've asked you to answer. I'm well aware that Tim Connelly is the Timberwolves' new President of Basketball Operations. Simply offering that it'll be his decision on what happens with D'Angelo Russell is not a valid answer. I'm genuinely curious what your plan would be since it is your opinion that Minnesota needs to move on from Russell. How would you replace him? Give me some sort of idea to run with. If he's not part of the solution, then who is and are they obtainable?
I'm asking this partially out of curiosity since actual suggestions aren't often given on this particular subject, but also to make a point that there is no obvious choice. There's not an option that we can all point at and go, "Yep, that's the move we need to make in order to get better." Some of that is because there's a limited number of quality players that are available from year to year, but a significant part of that is because Russell plays an important role on this team as a shot creator and secondary scorer, and perhaps his production isn't as easily replaced as one initially thought.
Perhaps that supposed upgrade doesn't exist yet. Maybe he's not available or hasn't developed into that player yet. All of that boils down to another question. Why is there a passionate desire to move on from a player when there's few, if any, discernible upgrades available?
Dude, if you don't get it by now, you're never going to get it. I think a lot of people are seeing that you just don't get it, but they're a lot nicer about it than me :)
Q-was-here wrote:The team that wants DLO may want his expiring contract and a vet PG for a year as they break in a rookie or 2nd year guy. He may not even have to be a long-term target for someone else to do a deal with us. There may be three-team or four-team trades out there.
One thing is not like the other two in those three guys above. I thought Jaylen Nowell absolutely proved last year that you can give him the ball and he can get you buckets without a lot of help being set up. In some ways, Nowell is even more well-rounded than Ant as a scorer because he can absolutely make shots from 6-18 feet, a range Ant struggles from.
Ja Morant carried a massive 34% usage rate this past season and clearly is at the center of everything they do offensively when he plays. Yet somehow Memphis was able to reel off a bunch of wins when he was out. Somehow they were able to do it! And they don't have anyone nearly as potent as Ant or KAT as a #2 after Ja.
I'm a seasoned Jaylen Nowell supporter. I have confidence in him becoming a sixth man and displacing Malik Beasley from the roster. That's a very different assignment than stepping up and taking on some of the responsibilities that D'Angelo Russell shoulders as a third option next to Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards, and the top option when those two take a seat. Nowell shouldn't be asked to be THAT guy just yet. He's a bucket-getter, but it's typically when opposing defenses aren't focusing on him whatsoever, which allows him to beat a single defender. That's where he can win.
Memphis has been excellent in games played without Ja Morant, but are we sure it's a result of Tyus Jones' wizardry, or perhaps the Grizzlies' 2-8 in the rotation stepped up significantly as a whole? As we've discussed before, Desmond Bane and Jaren Jackson Jr.'s numbers were way above their usual outputs during those stretches. They did the majority of the heavy lifting. Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson were available and productive as well. Kudos to Jones for stepping up and keeping the ship afloat, but I think you're giving the wrong guy the bulk of the credit. And that's not even getting into the fact that Memphis was in the midst of a soft spot in their schedule when Morant was injured earlier in the season. Jones is an excellent backup point guard. He is not a full-time starter on a team looking to advance in the playoffs. That would be asking way too much of him, in my opinion.
My point wasn't to demonstrate how great Tyus was, but instead to show how a team can still win games despite losing the guy that dominates most possessions while he's on the floor - especially one that is defensively limited like Ja. I'm just pointing to Memphis as an example in response to your concern of what do we do if we lose KAT or Ant to injury.
(and we've seen DLO over a long stretch without KAT in '20-21. Not pretty).
Dude, if you don't get it by now, you're never going to get it. I think a lot of people are seeing that you just don't get it, but they're a lot nicer about it than me :)
I'm imploring you to contribute to the discussion with meaningful insight and/or productive ideas. I would assume you follow the team and have some level of interest in basketball, which makes me think you could potentially construct a useful take at some point.
Unfortunately, I rarely get to see that from you because the large portion of your activity here are comments like the one above where you react to something I've said without elaborating any specific point. No, instead you choose to make personal, snide remarks that don't move any conversation further. I've really tried my best to overlook and ignore them. And I really do put forth an effort to engage with those that disagree with me or something I've said, if for no other reason than to understand the opposing view. I've been unable to do so with you, however, and I think it's because perhaps you don't actually want to talk about basketball with me or anyone else for that matter. It seems like you prefer doing this and I just can't find the value in it.
The Knicks purportedly were the only other team besides the Wolves to make a proposal for DLO to Golden State. I saw a trade proposal on SI.com (link: https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/new-york-trade-dangelo-russell-minnesota-timberwolves-nba-rumors#gid=ci02a1807010002654&pid=https___dailyknickscom_wp-content_uploads_getty-images_2018_08_1347809025) in which DLO goes to the Knicks for D. Rose, Burks and Noel, plus a first round pick of Dallas. I'd modify the deal to change the pick to a pick swap this year contingent on Dyson Daniels being available at 11. All the Knick players listed have team options so that they could all come off the books at the end of this season. While most teams would rather just draft Dyson Daniels, Thib's is in a win-now mode with his job on the line and may prefer the veteran and push the Knicks front office to do this deal, plus they would get back the 19th pick.
I think what Cam is asking is "how do we improve" at point guard.
A rookie is definitely not the answer just because their isn't a rookie that's ready to run a team and we don't have a starting quality PG other than DLO
KG4Ever wrote:The Knicks purportedly were the only other team besides the Wolves to make a proposal for DLO to Golden State. I saw a trade proposal on SI.com (link: https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/new-york-trade-dangelo-russell-minnesota-timberwolves-nba-rumors#gid=ci02a1807010002654&pid=https___dailyknickscom_wp-content_uploads_getty-images_2018_08_1347809025) in which DLO goes to the Knicks for D. Rose, Burks and Noel, plus a first round pick of Dallas. I'd modify the deal to change the pick to a pick swap this year contingent on Dyson Daniels being available at 11. All the Knick players listed have team options so that they could all come off the books at the end of this season. While most teams would rather just draft Dyson Daniels, Thib's is in a win-now mode with his job on the line and may prefer the veteran and push the Knicks front office to do this deal, plus they would get back the 19th pick.
I'd be surprised if the Knicks were willing to do that deal. I think substituting Kemba Walker instead of Rose or Burks would make it more realistic as I heard reports last year that it was mutually agreed that they were going to part ways. I don't think the Knicks are gonna trade Noel until they know they have Mitchell Robinson resigned. The Knicks do seem like a team that could use Russell and there are some matching salaries.
KG4Ever wrote:The Knicks purportedly were the only other team besides the Wolves to make a proposal for DLO to Golden State. I saw a trade proposal on SI.com (link: https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/new-york-trade-dangelo-russell-minnesota-timberwolves-nba-rumors#gid=ci02a1807010002654&pid=https___dailyknickscom_wp-content_uploads_getty-images_2018_08_1347809025) in which DLO goes to the Knicks for D. Rose, Burks and Noel, plus a first round pick of Dallas. I'd modify the deal to change the pick to a pick swap this year contingent on Dyson Daniels being available at 11. All the Knick players listed have team options so that they could all come off the books at the end of this season. While most teams would rather just draft Dyson Daniels, Thib's is in a win-now mode with his job on the line and may prefer the veteran and push the Knicks front office to do this deal, plus they would get back the 19th pick.
I'd be surprised if the Knicks were willing to do that deal. I think substituting Kemba Walker instead of Rose or Burks would make it more realistic as I heard reports last year that it was mutually agreed that they were going to part ways. I don't think the Knicks are gonna trade Noel until they know they have Mitchell Robinson resigned.
I'd be fine taking back Kemba over D Rose as his contract expires too. I don't think resigning Mitch Rob would hold things up. The Knicks are likely to resign Mitch Rob and for what they are paying Noel, I think they can find a backup center if need be, plus they still have Taj and Jericho Sims. Noel like Kemba got a bunch of DNPs at the end of the year, so the Knicks are probably fine with moving on from both. I agree with you that the Knicks might not want to give up 11 to get back DLO and 19, but its a deal that I think would be worth exploring, especially if the Wolves covet Dyson Daniels. I'd be fine sweetening it a little around the margins if need be. Unfortunately, Naz Reid can' be traded yet or I'd include him in the proposal, but Bolmaro and a second can.
Q-was-here wrote:If you get Tyus Jones, in my mind it goes with a bigger plan to also land another big that can carry a higher usage than Vando and replace him as a starter. John Collins might be the dream here. But even a guy like Hartenstein if we decided to go with a true Center is capable of being the 3rd scorer in a lineup with firepower like KAT and Ant. I mean I'm running damn-near everything through those two.
With Dipo, it's more PG by committee, meaning him, Beverley, and McLaughlin are all in the regular rotation and take on the majority of bringing the ball up the floor to initiate the offense.
Minnesota needs to pursue an upgrade at the four regardless of what they inevitably do with D'Angelo Russell. The question then becomes: Are you using Russell to make that happen? And if so, then who would be the target(s)? The team acquiring Russell would theoretically need to have a need in the backcourt and a surplus in the frontcourt. Atlanta, and therefore John Collins, doesn't make much sense there, but would Dallas if Jalen Brunson walks in free agency? I suppose that could be a match. The trade partners for that scenario aren't abundant, especially when you consider that the incoming big needs to fit next to Karl-Anthony Towns.
Wouldn't the Timberwolves be better off signing Isaiah Hartenstein and keeping Russell? It seems to me that would be a wise decision that wouldn't rock the boat much.
Speaking of third options, who becomes Minnesota's on nights where Towns and/or Anthony Edwards are off? Would Tyus Jones be capable of stepping up? Is Malik Beasley, Jaylen Nowell, or Jaden McDaniels ready to be THAT kind of offensive pillar on a consistent basis? I think the Wolves would take a significant step back here, especially with how often Towns gets double-teamed and is ineffective at beating that coverage. I think we'd be overestimating the potency of a Towns/Edwards duo on their own at this point.
This isn't to say that these players couldn't be useful to some degree, but I have a really difficult time imagining the Wolves getting better with them in place of Russell. On the contrary, I would predict less than 46 wins immediately.
You're correct, there are not a lot of suitors that make sense, but I would target Dallas as well if they lose Brunson. At that point they need to really start working on what they can add to Doncic in 2 and 3 years from now. They are handcuffed this next one. I'd explore a D'Lo and 3 2nds for Dinwiddie, DFS, and #26?
Dallas can try to flip D'Lo at the break or get 19 mil off their cap a year early and the other 12 mil 3 years early. Then they have Bertans and THJ contracts to ride out or work with when they are expiring. Dallas really screwed up rushing to that KP trade and hamstringing themselves with other contracts so early on. I figure they have 2-3 years to make something real big happen, and pure cap may just be the easiest route because players will go to play with Luka.
The Wolves tie up the $, but we aren't getting anything better than that imo.
KG4Ever wrote:The Knicks purportedly were the only other team besides the Wolves to make a proposal for DLO to Golden State. I saw a trade proposal on SI.com (link: https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/new-york-trade-dangelo-russell-minnesota-timberwolves-nba-rumors#gid=ci02a1807010002654&pid=https___dailyknickscom_wp-content_uploads_getty-images_2018_08_1347809025) in which DLO goes to the Knicks for D. Rose, Burks and Noel, plus a first round pick of Dallas. I'd modify the deal to change the pick to a pick swap this year contingent on Dyson Daniels being available at 11. All the Knick players listed have team options so that they could all come off the books at the end of this season. While most teams would rather just draft Dyson Daniels, Thib's is in a win-now mode with his job on the line and may prefer the veteran and push the Knicks front office to do this deal, plus they would get back the 19th pick.
The Knicks won't do this. Just because Gersson Rosas is allowed inside MSG doesn't mean he gets to make a transaction on his own. Besides, Thibs would be heartbroken if he had to give up Rose. Thibs' job is on the hot seat, but not Leon Rose's.
Also, that's a lot of flotsam coming back our way which wouldn't carry much individual value on their own unless they're bought out.
KG4Ever wrote:The Knicks purportedly were the only other team besides the Wolves to make a proposal for DLO to Golden State. I saw a trade proposal on SI.com (link: https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/new-york-trade-dangelo-russell-minnesota-timberwolves-nba-rumors#gid=ci02a1807010002654&pid=https___dailyknickscom_wp-content_uploads_getty-images_2018_08_1347809025) in which DLO goes to the Knicks for D. Rose, Burks and Noel, plus a first round pick of Dallas. I'd modify the deal to change the pick to a pick swap this year contingent on Dyson Daniels being available at 11. All the Knick players listed have team options so that they could all come off the books at the end of this season. While most teams would rather just draft Dyson Daniels, Thib's is in a win-now mode with his job on the line and may prefer the veteran and push the Knicks front office to do this deal, plus they would get back the 19th pick.
The Knicks won't do this. Just because Gersson Rosas is allowed inside MSG doesn't mean he gets to make a transaction on his own. Besides, Thibs would be heartbroken if he had to give up Rose. Thibs' job is on the hot seat, but not Leon Rose's.
Also, that's a lot of flotsam coming back our way which wouldn't carry much individual value on their own unless they're bought out.
Actually, we could take back Kemba, so Thibs won't be heart broken. Kemba and Nerlens Noel rotted on the bench the second half of the year. The value isn't in the flotsam but the allure would be getting Dyson Daniels in a pick swap. Now if Daniels is off the board, then maybe we look for a different deal. If there aren't good deals to be made, we just hold onto DLO and let his contract expire.
