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Re: Rebuilding time...who goes?
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:02 pm
by mjs34
As for trades, making us better should only be the benchmark when moving vets. Our market requires that we hit on developing young players that we can hope to hold onto for 5-10 years. There is no alternative plan for success in Minnesota.
Q mentioning a trade for other up and coming young guys works, but that is really the only thing that makes sense. If you are taking back a vet, he has to be locked up long term and be considerably better, which likely means significantly more expensive as well. That means he has to be a difference maker.
One other thing I would like to point out with Shabazz. He may not have been starting, but to say he hasn't been playing against starters isn't exactly accurate. When you are playing mid twenties in minutes, you are playing against starters for a good portion of that time, teams have been rolling their better defenders trying to stop him. He has put up good numbers against good defensive teams like SA and Houston.
Re: Rebuilding time...who goes?
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:23 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
sjm34 wrote:As for trades, making us better should only be the benchmark when moving vets. Our market requires that we hit on developing young players that we can hope to hold onto for 5-10 years. There is no alternative plan for success in Minnesota.
Q mentioning a trade for other up and coming young guys works, but that is really the only thing that makes sense. If you are taking back a vet, he has to be locked up long term and be considerably better, which likely means significantly more expensive as well. That means he has to be a difference maker.
One other thing I would like to point out with Shabazz. He may not have been starting, but to say he hasn't been playing against starters isn't exactly accurate. When you are playing mid twenties in minutes, you are playing against starters for a good portion of that time, teams have been rolling their better defenders trying to stop him. He has put up good numbers against good defensive teams like SA and Houston.
I didn't mean to imply he was only playing against second units.
Re: Rebuilding time...who goes?
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:37 pm
by DNatagal
Let's look at it this way...with the following caveats: we have our current roster FULLY healthy and ready for action on this night.
48 minutes for each position with SG and SF being "basically" interchangeable.
Now, with PG it is pretty easy, Rubio gets the bulk of the action, say 32 minutes, leaving 16 minutes for Mo and Lavine to split.
For SG, if Martin gets the bulk of the SG minutes, at 32 again, that leaves 16 minutes for Lavine, Daniels and Shabazz to split.
For SF, Wiggins gets at least 36 minutes here, he is young enough to play the most, leaving 12 minutes for...a lot of people to split. Bazz, should eat up most of these minutes, but other bodies need time also.
For PF...48 minutes of a dumpster fire, 3 day old couch pizza or a dude with bad knees that hustles, but just doesn't quite have what it takes to be a true PF. You decide which is which. I will toss Adrien in here because C is actually pretty good.
For C, Pek and Dieng split the minutes, 24 a piece. Adrien being the 3rd C.
Now, looking at that, I see a big GAPING hole...Power Forward. Considering we have a nice glut of wings (who would have thought we would have this problem?) can we flip some assets to fill the PF spot, while also leveling out our wing situation?
Of course it would be nice if another team felt sorry for us and traded a NBA starting PF for scraps...but that isn't going to happen. Now, if a playoff bound team is in need of an experienced scorer and possibly a backup PG AND has an extra PF just waiting for a chance to break out...well, then we are talking.
All this is just for discussion guys, don't kill me if I got something wrong, just trying to revive the board a bit!
Re: Rebuilding time...who goes?
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:38 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
Camden wrote:I know this doesn't really fit here, but since doper brought up how he liked how people around Bazz talked about his work ethic, I'm going to say it anyway.
Go to YouTube and watch videos or read articles about how people around Karl Towns talk about him. Most say he goes above and beyond, does what is asked of him and more, terrific young man and a great work ethic. Listen to him talk and he has that "Kobe/LeBron thing" in that he's intelligent when he speaks and commands your attention. We can argue about physical play and all that between draft prospects, but I like to try (even though I'm not around these prospects in person) to get a feel for their mentality; where their head is. That is equally important and I expect Towns to wow front office, coaching members at the combine and closed workouts.
I guess what I'm saying is I'd really like Towns in a Wolves uniform. We're still a ways away from the draft, and the more we talk about needing a big, the more I think Towns would be awesome here.
Heh, I hope he turns out better than Stauskas has! Just kidding....Sort of.
Sounds like Towns would be a great consolation prize assuming Okafor is off the board first (and I know you like Towns better than Okafor, but the reality is most draft sites have Okafor rated #1, which isn't necessarily a bad thing from your perspective because it means we have a solid chance at Towns in the event we don't get the first pick).
Why doesn't Dakari Johnson get more love? That guy is putting up some really impressive stats on a per minute basis, similar to Towns. It's amazing that Kentucky has so many talented bigs.
Re: Rebuilding time...who goes?
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:35 pm
by Coolbreeze44
Cauley-Stein may not be atop potential draft boards, but I see a young Joakim Noah in that guy. He wouldn't be a bad consolation prize either.
Re: Rebuilding time...who goes?
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:08 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
D'Natagal wrote:Let's look at it this way...with the following caveats: we have our current roster FULLY healthy and ready for action on this night.
48 minutes for each position with SG and SF being "basically" interchangeable.
Now, with PG it is pretty easy, Rubio gets the bulk of the action, say 32 minutes, leaving 16 minutes for Mo and Lavine to split.
For SG, if Martin gets the bulk of the SG minutes, at 32 again, that leaves 16 minutes for Lavine, Daniels and Shabazz to split.
For SF, Wiggins gets at least 36 minutes here, he is young enough to play the most, leaving 12 minutes for...a lot of people to split. Bazz, should eat up most of these minutes, but other bodies need time also.
For PF...48 minutes of a dumpster fire, 3 day old couch pizza or a dude with bad knees that hustles, but just doesn't quite have what it takes to be a true PF. You decide which is which. I will toss Adrien in here because C is actually pretty good.
For C, Pek and Dieng split the minutes, 24 a piece. Adrien being the 3rd C.
Now, looking at that, I see a big GAPING hole...Power Forward. Considering we have a nice glut of wings (who would have thought we would have this problem?) can we flip some assets to fill the PF spot, while also leveling out our wing situation?
Of course it would be nice if another team felt sorry for us and traded a NBA starting PF for scraps...but that isn't going to happen. Now, if a playoff bound team is in need of an experienced scorer and possibly a backup PG AND has an extra PF just waiting for a chance to break out...well, then we are talking.
All this is just for discussion guys, don't kill me if I got something wrong, just trying to revive the board a bit!
D'Natagal wrote:Let's look at it this way...with the following caveats: we have our current roster FULLY healthy and ready for action on this night.
Center may be more of a hole than you think if Pek can never come back healthy. Luckily the upcoming draft can help us out here.
But yeah, PF is a larger concern. The good news is that there are a ton of credible PFs in this league. We don't necessarily need a stud in that slot if we have good players in the other four areas. I'm far more concerned about a) keeping Rubio healthy and seeing if his improved shot is a mirage or the real deal; 2) continue to see improvement from Shabazz and Wiggins, and 3) Find the right answer at Center between the Dieng/Pek/Lotto pick. THEN I'll worry more about the long-term answer at PF. But if you have upper level players at the four other positions, you can get away with a lunchpail type guy at PF.
Re: Rebuilding time...who goes?
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:11 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
Oops, my reply to D'Natagal got all messed up. Here it is.....
Center may be more of a hole than you think if Pek can never come back healthy. Luckily the upcoming draft can help us out here.
But yeah, PF is a larger concern. The good news is that there are a ton of credible PFs in this league. We don't necessarily need a stud in that slot if we have good players in the other four areas. I'm far more concerned about a) keeping Rubio healthy and seeing if his improved shot is a mirage or the real deal; 2) continue to see improvement from Shabazz and Wiggins, and 3) Find the right answer at Center between the Dieng/Pek/Lotto pick. THEN I'll worry more about the long-term answer at PF. But if you have upper level players at the four other positions, you can get away with a lunchpail type guy at PF.
Re: Rebuilding time...who goes?
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:09 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
"Why doesn't Dakari Johnson get more love? That guy is putting up some really impressive stats on a per minute basis, similar to Towns. It's amazing that Kentucky has so many talented bigs."
I like him, but not for the Wolves. He's not really a defensive player and offensively he's limited like Pekovic, but not as big as Pek. I also think his upside is limited. I see starter being his ceiling. Nothing's wrong with that, but we need studs. That's essentially my point.
PS: Towns' positional versatility is also nice. If we keep Pek/Dieng at center, we could play Towns at the 4 next to either one and be good.
Re: Rebuilding time...who goes?
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:21 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
Let's dream for a second...
Houston decides they could use one of the best shooters in basketball, who just so happens to fit perfectly with McHale's offensive system. K-Mart's game revolves around threes, free throws and layups (not as often as when he was younger). Martin could backup Harden and also play with Harden when he's running the offense. They trade us Terrence Jones and Jason Terry. We waive/buyout Terry so he can sign on with a contender. Jones is a very good get here, imo. Houston currently has Smith, Motiejunas and Dorsey at power forward. Perhaps they view Jones as a nice trade chip when he returns.
Wolves win third overall pick. Philly takes Okafor (they're going to have a busy draft night; Embiid, Noel and Saric at frontcourt spots already). New York takes the marketable, high-potential Mudiay. Minnesota selects Towns.
PG: Rubio / Williams / Lavine
SG: Wiggins / Daniels
SF: Muhammad / Robinson
PF: Jones / Young / Hummel
C: Towns / Dieng / Pekovic
Re: Rebuilding time...who goes?
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:32 pm
by TheGrey08
Wiggins - Why do some keep trying to peg Wiggins as only a SF? His highest potential is definitely at SG. He is a match up problem at SG and that is where we need him to succeed.
Bazz/Bennett - Did people see the Wolves weekly about Bazz & Bennett's off season training with Frank Matrisciano? There no way in hell I'm selling on Bazz right now and I'm not writing off Bennett yet either. Both are planning on training with him again this summer. Matrisciano said the results these 2 had last summer will be nothing compared to next summer when they turn things up even more. Bazz is HUNGRY and if Bennett is going through that training again I'm not about to write him off either b/c that shit is intense and requires dedication. If he's not improving a lot by next season then they can decline his option.
Martin/Young - Martin I'd prefer to keep as well unless he brought back a talented or proven PF that fits better with Pek/Dieng. Young just doesn't fit as a starter and I hope they move him to be the 6th or 7th man sooner than later. Hopefully when they give Adrien a shot at PF once they sign the backup center probably this week (spacing on his name).