thedoper wrote:Bad teams routinely have players that dont want to play for them. Its a unique problem for losers in all sports. The core of the story is probably true and it is likely becoming a bit complicated for the Wolves to deal with it. If Wiseman is there top guy I hope they have the balls to draft him anyway, but history probably isnt working in our favor on this one. Im sure the Wolves have communicated with Wiseman already. But if Im him, of course Id rather play for the Warriors. He'd get tons of playing time on a winner if hes as good a people here are trying to make him out to be.
I'm going to go all Kahnsy on you here.....Wiseman has literally no leverage. If anything, his not wanting to come to Minnesota makes me want to draft him even more because a) it sends a signal to other future prospects that we don't give a shit about your silly preferences - that's not how it works in the NBA, b) it also sends a signal to other agents, front offices and media folks that fan the flames of this type of narrative that we could care less, and c) they can still trade him anyway.
Stay strong Gupta!
I think you're right that they should stay strong. I do think his personal preference is a bit of leverage. We've seen what happens too many times in negotiations when a player states they want out of a situation. I wish it was as simple as you say, but somehow it never seems to end up being that simple for bad franchises. Even if he comes and hates it in Minnesota, conducted a NFL level Jimmy Butleresque shit show the media will be completely on his side. This reality makes NBA business people buckle when theyre working for inept franchises. I hope this regime bucks this trend and can see past this type of superficial narrative. But these superficial narratives have been influencing NBA decision makers for a while.
I think giving in to a young player's demands has less to do with THAT specific player... and more to do with the rest of that player's client list.
If one player hates your organization... meh. But if that agent is upset with you, how fairly will he treat the organization when it comes to another client?
I believe Jeff Schwartz is Wiseman's agent. His client list:
https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Jeff-Schwartz/23
If we believe Windhorst's report, then it follows that we should take him at his work on the reason for Wiseman's aversion to being drafted by the Wolves. Note that the reason has nothing to do with Minnesota's weather or the Wolves' losing record. And there's no mention of a preference to play for Golden State.
The sole reason given for wanting to avoid the Wolves is Wiseman's purported concern that he wouldn't fit well with KAT. That concern is easily put to rest. Wiseman is either worried about playing time or the ability to fully showcase his skills playing next to Towns. The playing time concern makes no sense because no team will take a player with the top pick without intending to ultimately start him as one of two or three core stars. The other concern is similarly nonsensical given that KAT's strength is offense while Wiseman himself has identified his strength as defense. In other words, by his own words Wiseman has confirmed that he's the perfect complement to Towns. Moreover, KAT's offensive versatility opens up all sorts of possibilities for Wiseman on that side of the ball, especially given the fact that Wiseman prides himself on his own offensive versatility. KAT played effectively next to Taj Gibson; he can certainly play effectively next to Wiseman.
I have to believe that Wiseman and his agent are both smart enough to know all this, which is why I think the Windy report is bogus. But even if the report is true, all Rosas and Ryan need to do is talk to Wiseman and his agent and state the obvious. And even if Wiseman were to remain unpersuaded, his concerns would fade with playing time and success as a key player and ultimately a starter for the Wolves.
This is an easy call. If the Wolves front office considers Wiseman the best talent in the draft, they should absolutely, positively draft him without hesitation. Wiseman will be thrilled to be the top pick in the draft, complete with the extra money and prestige that comes with it. If he's smart, and I think he is, he'll be excited by the fact that he'll have the chance to establish himself as that third star who takes this team from 3rd worst in the League to the playoffs and beyond.
lipoli390 wrote:If we believe Windhorst's report, then it follows that we should take him at his work on the reason for Wiseman's aversion to being drafted by the Wolves. Note that the reason has nothing to do with Minnesota's weather or the Wolves' losing record. And there's no mention of a preference to play for Golden State.
The sole reason given for wanting to avoid the Wolves is Wiseman's purported concern that he wouldn't fit well with KAT. That concern is easily put to rest. Wiseman is either worried about playing time or the ability to fully showcase his skills playing next to Towns. The playing time concern makes no sense because no team will take a player with the top pick without intending to ultimately start him as one of two or three core stars. The other concern is similarly nonsensical given that KAT's strength is offense while Wiseman himself has identified his strength as defense. In other words, by his own words Wiseman has confirmed that he's the perfect complement to Towns. Moreover, KAT's offensive versatility opens up all sorts of possibilities for Wiseman on that side of the ball, especially given the fact that Wiseman prides himself on his own offensive versatility. KAT played effectively next to Taj Gibson; he can certainly play effectively next to Wiseman.
I have to believe that Wiseman and his agent are both smart enough to know all this, which is why I think the Windy report is bogus. But even if the report is true, all Rosas and Ryan need to do is talk to Wiseman and his agent and state the obvious. And even if Wiseman were to remain unpersuaded, his concerns would fade with playing time and success as a key player and ultimately a starter for the Wolves.
This is an easy call. If the Wolves front office considers Wiseman the best talent in the draft, they should absolutely, positively draft him without hesitation. Wiseman will be thrilled to be the top pick in the draft, complete with the extra money and prestige that comes with it. If he's smart, and I think he is, he'll be excited by the fact that he'll have the chance to establish himself as that third star who takes this team from 3rd worst in the League to the playoffs and beyond.
Love the enthusiasm that Towns and Wiseman can play effectively next to eachother. There is an equally plausible scenario where they're too slow defensively and take up too much of the same space offensively to be an effective tandem. Taj was great because he was a workhorse vet who demanded nothing, Wiseman already seems extremely high demand without playing a game. I agree with sentiment that if Wiseman is the most talented, take him. But I think its fair to assume that there may be multiple reservations to Wiseman coming to our team and a myriad of ways it could go wrong with him. Its the Wolves after all.
I get that eventually the pendulum will swing again and the "small ball" era will be out of favor. And that there's merit to leading that charge with an uber-athletic 7 footer... and arguably the best shooting 7 footer ever on the roster.
But how much are we expecting a rookie to handle the defensive side of the ball... sometimes playing far out on the perimeter? How much freedom will he have offensively if his growing pains take the ball out of the hands of the generational talented big next to him?
I probably agree Wiseman is a logical pick at #1... for somebody. I know it's a very unpopular take here... I simply question if it's a great fit for the Wolves.
Part of Towns uniqueness is his ability to do the things that NOBODY else he's matched up with can do. I think he loses some of that unicorn vibe if he's matched with a young, unproven rim runner. Do we even bother putting Towns inside the paint with both on the court? If we do... and he gets the ball... it's an automatic double team. And Wiseman will be left wide open. Can he hit that open shot?
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I get that eventually the pendulum will swing again and the "small ball" era will be out of favor. And that there's merit to leading that charge with an uber-athletic 7 footer... and arguably the best shooting 7 footer ever on the roster.
But how much are we expecting a rookie to handle the defensive side of the ball... sometimes playing far out on the perimeter? How much freedom will he have offensively if his growing pains take the ball out of the hands of the generational talented big next to him?
I probably agree Wiseman is a logical pick at #1... for somebody. I know it's a very unpopular take here... I simply question if it's a great fit for the Wolves.
Part of Towns uniqueness is his ability to do the things that NOBODY else he's matched up with can do. I think he loses some of that unicorn vibe if he's matched with a young, unproven rim runner. Do we even bother putting Towns inside the paint with both on the court? If we do... and he gets the ball... it's an automatic double team. And Wiseman will be left wide open. Can he hit that open shot?
I agree. This is how I feel about it too. Spacing on offense and defensive coverage against smaller lineups are real concerns. If we can move systematically into a ball sharing system that had constant movement and KAT bought in maybe we turn those concerns into assets, but I definitely think there would be growing pains at best with Wiseman. At worst, well we all know what that might look like as Timberwolves fans.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I get that eventually the pendulum will swing again and the "small ball" era will be out of favor. And that there's merit to leading that charge with an uber-athletic 7 footer... and arguably the best shooting 7 footer ever on the roster.
But how much are we expecting a rookie to handle the defensive side of the ball... sometimes playing far out on the perimeter? How much freedom will he have offensively if his growing pains take the ball out of the hands of the generational talented big next to him?
I probably agree Wiseman is a logical pick at #1... for somebody. I know it's a very unpopular take here... I simply question if it's a great fit for the Wolves.
Part of Towns uniqueness is his ability to do the things that NOBODY else he's matched up with can do. I think he loses some of that unicorn vibe if he's matched with a young, unproven rim runner. Do we even bother putting Towns inside the paint with both on the court? If we do... and he gets the ball... it's an automatic double team. And Wiseman will be left wide open. Can he hit that open shot?
Or Wiseman could cut to the bucket when his guy goes to double and Towns just has to throw it up for the other 7 footer to put down. Guys don't have to just sit in the corner and jack up shots. How many guys in the league can challenge Wiseman at his apex and not foul him especially if their one big man is already on Towns? Sure we'll need some imagination and innovation we don't see come from the Wolves often but that's the only way to become good in this league. A rim runner and a highly efficient and smart offensive big man who can stretch the floor should be able to co-exist in this league. And at the end of the day they realistically just need to share the floor for the first and last 8 minutes of the game. It shouldn't be hard to make two 7 footers who like to play on the perimeter be able to co-exist for 16 minutes a night.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I get that eventually the pendulum will swing again and the "small ball" era will be out of favor. And that there's merit to leading that charge with an uber-athletic 7 footer... and arguably the best shooting 7 footer ever on the roster.
But how much are we expecting a rookie to handle the defensive side of the ball... sometimes playing far out on the perimeter? How much freedom will he have offensively if his growing pains take the ball out of the hands of the generational talented big next to him?
I probably agree Wiseman is a logical pick at #1... for somebody. I know it's a very unpopular take here... I simply question if it's a great fit for the Wolves.
Part of Towns uniqueness is his ability to do the things that NOBODY else he's matched up with can do. I think he loses some of that unicorn vibe if he's matched with a young, unproven rim runner. Do we even bother putting Towns inside the paint with both on the court? If we do... and he gets the ball... it's an automatic double team. And Wiseman will be left wide open. Can he hit that open shot?
Not sure Wiseman will need to space out to the corner when KAT gets the ball inside. I see him getting himself in position on the weak side for an easy offensive rebound or short pass up top if KAT is doubled.
But yeah, he's going to be a work-in-progress. I just don't know if there is a perfect fit next to KAT that is available. You basically need a guy that can guard the paint, guard in space, and hit open 3s consistently. I get that Wiseman won't be able to do this right away. But who can? Paul Milsap or Al Horford from two or three years ago would be PERFECT next to KAT. That type of player just doesn't exist out there that is attainable.
thedoper wrote:Bad teams routinely have players that dont want to play for them. Its a unique problem for losers in all sports. The core of the story is probably true and it is likely becoming a bit complicated for the Wolves to deal with it. If Wiseman is there top guy I hope they have the balls to draft him anyway, but history probably isnt working in our favor on this one. Im sure the Wolves have communicated with Wiseman already. But if Im him, of course Id rather play for the Warriors. He'd get tons of playing time on a winner if hes as good a people here are trying to make him out to be.
I'm going to go all Kahnsy on you here.....Wiseman has literally no leverage. If anything, his not wanting to come to Minnesota makes me want to draft him even more because a) it sends a signal to other future prospects that we don't give a shit about your silly preferences - that's not how it works in the NBA, b) it also sends a signal to other agents, front offices and media folks that fan the flames of this type of narrative that we could care less, and c) they can still trade him anyway.
Stay strong Gupta!
Amen
If he was so worried about playing time, then why did he opt out of college ball?
I'm sure he would rather have the extra 10 mil in hand as the #1. Hell, his family could not afford to scrape up the 11,500 the NCAA wanted paid back. Though I still think that whole decision was horseshit, and robbed us of a definitive decision of Wiseman being the best talent.
