CoolBreeze44 wrote:I would take Wiseman, but let me go on record saying Rosas will take Ball if he keeps the pick.
If he does that, I'm out on Rosas. I'm not sure why people are so hyped about Ball (besides his family's celebrity) he plays no defense and can't shoot.
I don't know much about his story. He skipped college to play in Australia right? I'm guessing the competition there isn't that good. And now he's a top 3 pick?
I don't believe an organization makes a trade for Deangelo Russell then turns around and drafts a pg with the first pick. Or a player like Edwards who requires high usage to see first pick value. To most potential and highest floor still lies with Wisemen.
Camden wrote:According to The Ringer, LaMelo Ball was in the 4th percentile in defending spot-up shot attempts and below the 1st percentile in defending pick-and-rolls during his 12-game stretch in the NBL. How is it possible to be that fucking atrocious on defense? That's not just bad. That's downright unplayable, especially when you consider the talent level over there is a fraction of what exists in the NBA.
That along with his completely broken shot is enough to turn me away from him altogether. How is he going to be successful in the NBA let alone become a star player? He can't consistently beat defenders off the bounce because he lacks above average athleticism. He can't make shots from the perimeter because he has the mechanics of a middle schooler. He can't defend on ball or off ball. He's a good rebounder for his position thanks to his 6'7 frame and he's a quality facilitator/passer albeit a less valuable skill if he's unable to present himself to be a viable scoring threat.
I can't understand why he's considered one of the top prospects in this draft class. Is it the high school hype? Is it the social media fame? Is it the family name? It must be one of those factors because if we're judging him off of what he's done on a basketball court even in a limited sample size he's not worthy of being in that discussion.
Edit: Ball is a 6'7 Ricky Rubio that can't defend or a 6'7 Trae Young that can't shoot. Either way, you won't be winning m(any) games if he's one of your best players.
Completely agree: I don't want any part of Ball. His passing is special, no doubt, especially at his length. Probably the best single skill of any player in this draft, which I think is probably what is getting him the attention from respected commentators. It does signify very good court vision, and some people think that translates to intelligence, but I'm not so sure that's always the case. I do agree that you want to have smart players if you can get them, but he has so many weaknesses and they are so glaring. He's a horrific defender with literally zero motor on that end, his shooting form actually hurts my eyes to watch, his shot-selection is obscene for someone with such a bad shot. He makes Anthony Edwards look like Ray fucking Allen. I mean, he does rebound ok for a PG, but he's so weak physically he'll just get absolutely abused in the league unless he puts on a ton of weight and actually tries. And his personality just turns me off completely. The Rubio without defense or Trae without the shooting are fair comps. I was actually thinking DLO without shooting. Or post-injury Shaun Livingston with better passing but no real mid-range game. All finesse. We could be wrong. And if he does end up panning out, his passing will be fun to watch. But I'd much rather have another team take that risk, especially with Edwards and Wiseman on the board and the possibility of trading down out there.
Add me to the group on this message board who want know part of Ball!
Camden wrote:According to The Ringer, LaMelo Ball was in the 4th percentile in defending spot-up shot attempts and below the 1st percentile in defending pick-and-rolls during his 12-game stretch in the NBL. How is it possible to be that fucking atrocious on defense? That's not just bad. That's downright unplayable, especially when you consider the talent level over there is a fraction of what exists in the NBA.
That along with his completely broken shot is enough to turn me away from him altogether. How is he going to be successful in the NBA let alone become a star player? He can't consistently beat defenders off the bounce because he lacks above average athleticism. He can't make shots from the perimeter because he has the mechanics of a middle schooler. He can't defend on ball or off ball. He's a good rebounder for his position thanks to his 6'7 frame and he's a quality facilitator/passer albeit a less valuable skill if he's unable to present himself to be a viable scoring threat.
I can't understand why he's considered one of the top prospects in this draft class. Is it the high school hype? Is it the social media fame? Is it the family name? It must be one of those factors because if we're judging him off of what he's done on a basketball court even in a limited sample size he's not worthy of being in that discussion.
Edit: Ball is a 6'7 Ricky Rubio that can't defend or a 6'7 Trae Young that can't shoot. Either way, you won't be winning m(any) games if he's one of your best players.
I can't really disagree with anything Cam (and others) wrote here.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:I would take Wiseman, but let me go on record saying Rosas will take Ball if he keeps the pick.
If he does that, I'm out on Rosas. I'm not sure why people are so hyped about Ball (besides his family's celebrity) he plays no defense and can't shoot.
I don't know much about his story. He skipped college to play in Australia right? I'm guessing the competition there isn't that good. And now he's a top 3 pick?
Pro league in Australia is likely better then any college hoops but if a guy doesn't play defense, I generally want no part of him. It just shows me that he doesn't give two shits about winning. So for me, I would not consider Ball until the bottom of the 1st round. Then he would be worth gambling on.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:I would take Wiseman, but let me go on record saying Rosas will take Ball if he keeps the pick.
If he does that, I'm out on Rosas. I'm not sure why people are so hyped about Ball (besides his family's celebrity) he plays no defense and can't shoot.
I don't know much about his story. He skipped college to play in Australia right? I'm guessing the competition there isn't that good. And now he's a top 3 pick?
Pro league in Australia is likely better then any college hoops but if a guy doesn't play defense, I generally want no part of him. It just shows me that he doesn't give two shits about winning. So for me, I would not consider Ball until the bottom of the 1st round. Then he would be worth gambling on.
Well Rosas has proven he's not terribly interested in the defensive side of the ball. He's building around 2 guys who just don't get it on that end and never will.
Someone should start a draft prediction thread. I won't be surprised if the Wolves end up drafting Ball as Cool predicts. But my prediction right now is that the Wolves will either draft Edwards or trade down and draft Toppin. I suspect the Wolves front office and Ryan view those two as the best fits for the system they are so attached to. As Wild noted, Rosas doesn't seem too interested in the defensive side of the ball.
lipoli390 wrote:Someone should start a draft prediction thread. I won't be surprised if the Wolves end up drafting Ball as Cool predicts. But my prediction right now is that the Wolves will either draft Edwards or trade down and draft Toppin. I suspect the Wolves front office and Ryan view those two as the best fits for the system they are so attached to. As Wild noted, Rosas doesn't seem too interested in the defensive side of the ball.
Rosas has a star in Towns and went after another possible star in Russell to pair with him. The simple fact is that in this league you need star offensive players. That's separate from defense even if those 2 guys suck at it.
Meanwhile Rosas top draft pick so far was thought of as a 2-way player and looked to be a quality defender as a rookie. Okogie is still here. Most of the vet guys he brought in last year had some positives on that end. Rosas came from Houston who typically was at least decent defending during the Harden era. He isn't stupid he knows he will have to figure out something on that end. Will he chase another star Offensive player in this draft? Maybe...probably. That player MIGHT also be able to defend. Again if Wiseman has the offensive upside that Cam believes in and the Wolves think there is a chance of that...I wouldn't be surprised if they took him. I'm still skeptical of that ability in Wiseman tho.
lipoli390 wrote:Someone should start a draft prediction thread. I won't be surprised if the Wolves end up drafting Ball as Cool predicts. But my prediction right now is that the Wolves will either draft Edwards or trade down and draft Toppin. I suspect the Wolves front office and Ryan view those two as the best fits for the system they are so attached to. As Wild noted, Rosas doesn't seem too interested in the defensive side of the ball.
Rosas has a star in Towns and went after another possible star in Russell to pair with him. The simple fact is that in this league you need star offensive players. That's separate from defense even if those 2 guys suck at it.
Meanwhile Rosas top draft pick so far was thought of as a 2-way player and looked to be a quality defender as a rookie. Okogie is still here. Most of the vet guys he brought in last year had some positives on that end. Rosas came from Houston who typically was at least decent defending during the Harden era. He isn't stupid he knows he will have to figure out something on that end. Will he chase another star Offensive player in this draft? Maybe...probably. That player MIGHT also be able to defend. Again if Wiseman has the offensive upside that Cam believes in and the Wolves think there is a chance of that...I wouldn't be surprised if they took him. I'm still skeptical of that ability in Wiseman tho.
I'm not prepared to say Rosas isn't stupid. We'll find that out over time. But to be clear, I don't necessarily see drafting Edwards or even Toppin as a mistake. I just think those two guys fit the player type that Rosas seems to be interested in - namely dynamic offensive multi-position players who can run the floor and hit threes. Edwards and Toppin fit that mold. Moreover, Edwards has the physical tools to become a very good NBA defender. And we can't foreclose the possibility of Toppin improving defensively. Bottom line is that Rosas appears to wants to play an exciting, offensive-oriented, positionless style with lots of three-point shooting and both Edwards and Toppin seem to fit that style. Honestly, I think Toppin would be fun to watch. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the Wolves would be able to stop anyone.
Obi Toppin would make the Wolves the Dominican Republic's new favorite team lol and while he'd be fun to watch (I compare him to Antawn Jamison), the Wolves couldn't be anything less than a top 3 offensive team to justify the points they'll give up.
My main lament regarding this draft is that this team is banking on a draft pick to save this team defensively when it reality it should be coming from a guy who we KNOW can play defense in Towns but just can't get his head out of his ass. Russell won't do it, but he needs to rediscover that chip on his shoulder he had in Brooklyn. I saw him live a bunch then and they could win games with guys who weren't all-world on defense. It's possible, but if they're not gonna care about defense, why would anyone on this team?
