D’Angelo Russell

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

How did the Warriors build around Stephen Curry and David Lee years ago? What about the Bulls with Derrick Rose and Carlos Boozer, or the Blazers with Damian Lillard and LaMarcus Aldridge? How have the Nuggets built around Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic?

There have been numerous successful teams that had weak defenders in both the frontcourt and backcourt so it is possible -- for those that continue to act like this franchise is headed in the wrong direction.

Maybe.

I guess the difference is in the details. Will Russell at least try to be decent on defense like Curry? Comparing them at this point, even defensively, is a disservice to Curry.

David Lee was effectively played out of the league because of his defensive liabilities as the game evolved.

Curry still isn't decent on defense, and he used to be one of the worst defenders in the entire league. Moreover, Golden State had to hide him on a nightly basis and were affective in doing so. That's essentially the point I was making.

As for David Lee -- perhaps that was it. Or it was his heavy reliance on post play without any semblance of a perimeter game. Or it was Father Time kicking in with injury woes on top of it. Or it was some combination of it all. If he was Karl-Anthony Towns on offense, he would have been more than okay. Again, that's the point I'm making here.

[AbeVigodaLive]

How did the Warriors build around Stephen Curry and David Lee years ago? What about the Bulls with Derrick Rose and Carlos Boozer, or the Blazers with Damian Lillard and LaMarcus Aldridge? How have the Nuggets built around Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic?

There have been numerous successful teams that had weak defenders in both the frontcourt and backcourt so it is possible -- for those that continue to act like this franchise is headed in the wrong direction.

Maybe.

I guess the difference is in the details. Will Russell at least try to be decent on defense like Curry? Comparing them at this point, even defensively, is a disservice to Curry.

David Lee was effectively played out of the league because of his defensive liabilities as the game evolved.

Curry still isn't decent on defense, and he used to be one of the worst defenders in the entire league. Moreover, Golden State had to hide him on a nightly basis and were affective in doing so. That's essentially the point I was making.

As for David Lee -- perhaps that was it. Or it was his heavy reliance on post play without any semblance of a perimeter game. Or it was Father Time kicking in with injury woes on top of it. Or it was some combination of it all. If he was Karl-Anthony Towns on offense, he would have been more than okay. Again, that's the point I'm making here.

Maybe you can share some stats to prove he's one of the worst defenders in the entire league.

Even though it's very possible he's been the worst of the Warriors starters on defense, he's had a positive DBPM according to https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.htmlbasketballreference.com for most of his career.

[bleedspeed]

Our guys didn't make the worst-defender team, but are dishonorable mentions.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876876-exposing-nbas-worst-defender-at-every-position

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

How did the Warriors build around Stephen Curry and David Lee years ago? What about the Bulls with Derrick Rose and Carlos Boozer, or the Blazers with Damian Lillard and LaMarcus Aldridge? How have the Nuggets built around Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic?

There have been numerous successful teams that had weak defenders in both the frontcourt and backcourt so it is possible -- for those that continue to act like this franchise is headed in the wrong direction.

So we just need all 3 of the other players on the court to be potential All-NBA defenders and DPOY candidates. Seems reasonable to make that big of a leap in player acquisition. Klay and Iggy were two of the best perimeter defenders in the entire league and Draymond is a DPOY, 5 time All-NBA defense anchoring that team. That Bulls team had Luol Dieng, Taj Gibson and also future DPOY Joakim Noah anchoring that defense. That was also not in an era of pace and space which is significantly harder to defend. And neither the Blazers nor the Nuggets have been contenders with those two stars. They've been regular season teams who can't actually hang with the real contenders in the playoffs. I think we can be a solid playoff team with these two guys, but we're talking about needing to add 3 potential All-NBA defenders and at least 1 of those a DPOY candidate to be comparable to those actual contenders. That would take a degree of luck this franchise has never seen so is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? No. I'm not a title or bust person though so I'll be fine just making the playoffs with these 2 and hoping for the best.

[TAFKASP]

Our guys didn't make the worst-defender team, but are dishonorable mentions.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876876-exposing-nbas-worst-defender-at-every-position

So our guys are the best of the worst! At least they're improving!!

[Coolbreeze44]

I've always said I can handle being a playoff team as long as there is a realistic pathway in place to becoming a contender. Making the playoffs without any real hope of sustaining a long run doesn't do it for me. Keeping KAT and then acquiring DLO tells me this franchise doesn't have a plan to take this thing further. Sure, we could get lucky like Milwaukee did in landing Giannis. But any team has that chance. I'd invite someone to paint me a realistic scenario of how this franchise can become a contender given the current circumstances. We're down one number 1 pick, and will likely be choosing between 15-20 for the foreseeable future. Are we going to mid-level exception ourselves to greatness? Is there a David Kahn or Thibs out there we can fleece in trades? I'd love it if someone could convince me we have a realistic shot. It would be great to be optimistic again.

[Lipoli390]

How did the Warriors build around Stephen Curry and David Lee years ago? What about the Bulls with Derrick Rose and Carlos Boozer, or the Blazers with Damian Lillard and LaMarcus Aldridge? How have the Nuggets built around Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic?

There have been numerous successful teams that had weak defenders in both the frontcourt and backcourt so it is possible -- for those that continue to act like this franchise is headed in the wrong direction.

So we just need all 3 of the other players on the court to be potential All-NBA defenders and DPOY candidates. Seems reasonable to make that big of a leap in player acquisition. Klay and Iggy were two of the best perimeter defenders in the entire league and Draymond is a DPOY, 5 time All-NBA defense anchoring that team. That Bulls team had Luol Dieng, Taj Gibson and also future DPOY Joakim Noah anchoring that defense. That was also not in an era of pace and space which is significantly harder to defend. And neither the Blazers nor the Nuggets have been contenders with those two stars. They've been regular season teams who can't actually hang with the real contenders in the playoffs. I think we can be a solid playoff team with these two guys, but we're talking about needing to add 3 potential All-NBA defenders and at least 1 of those a DPOY candidate to be comparable to those actual contenders. That would take a degree of luck this franchise has never seen so is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? No. I'm not a title or bust person though so I'll be fine just making the playoffs with these 2 and hoping for the best.

Kahns - That's all I've been saying. This team should be a perennial playoff team with the current roster if it's well coached and stays healthy. And while it's not likely the Wolves become a title contender with KAT and Russell as their two best players, it's possible. I don't believe all three starters next to with KAT and Russell have to be all-defensive players. The key is having very good defenders at those three other positions. It could be a mix of a great defender, and two good defenders or some other combination. How good those three need to be collectively also depends on the extent to which KAT and/or Russell improve defensively. At age 24, it's reasonable to expect they will both improve at least a little. There's no exact formula.

Regarding the Warriors, let's not forget that they were far more than a championship contender with the players Cam mentioned; they won multiple championships and set the NBA record for most regular season wins. As for the Nuggets, they had the second best record in the tough Western Conference and advanced to the Conference semi-finals, which went 7 games, two years ago. And they did that with their two cornerstone players (both poor defenders) in their early 20s. You seem intent on declaring they aren't title contenders, but I doubt there's a head coach in the League who would agree with you.

So we'll just have to see what happens. I don't believe in luck. I believe in talent and hard work. I'm still not sure about Rosas. But if he's truly good at his job, he has a lot of resources to work with to fill the gaps on this team and put it on par with the Nuggets or better. I'm not going to bet the farm on that happening, but I'm not going to summarily dismiss that possibility either. Let's see what Rosas can do with decent set of resources he has, including a high lottery pick, a mid-1st round pick and very high second round pick along with some talented young players on team-friendly contracts, including Reid, Okogie and Culver.

[Monster]

We always overvalue our guys.

DLO has already been dealt with by 3 teams.
KAT got manhandled in his one chance in the playoffs as the second-best player on his team.

I just don't see the fire in these guys. I wouldn't consider either a top 20 player. KAT seems to be falling every year in rankings and is not living up to his potential. DLO is not even a top 50 player. That won't get it done.

I could argue that D-Lo being traded multiple times was heavily circumstantial, and quite honestly poor moves by some teams looking back.

Los Angeles dealt him to Brooklyn with Timofey Mosgov, who had three-years, $48M left on his deal, for an expiring contract in Brook Lopez and a first-round pick. The Lakers were trying to stay a step ahead in their pursuit of future free agents LeBron James and Paul George. They were also set to take a consensus top-five prospect in Lonzo Ball at No. 2 that same summer. Add all of this up and you can see why they made such a move, however, it has since been considered a poor move in hindsight by multiple pundits around the league.

Brooklyn dealt Russell to Golden State only after agreeing to terms with Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. Not to mention, the sign-and-trade allowed the Nets to pick up an additional first-round pick. This one is pretty much a no-brainer across the board. Russell was the odd man out mainly because Durant and Irving were set to be a package deal.

Lastly, Golden State was never a good landing spot for Russell. Their only agenda for acquiring him was to recoup value instead of losing Durant for absolutely nothing. I feel silly even needing to say this, but the Warriors have Steph Curry and Klay Thompson in their backcourt -- arguably the two best shooters of all-time, a league MVP and one of the best two-way players in the game. Russell was never going to leap either of them nor was he a compatible fit next to them. Case in point, Golden State was always going to be just a pit stop for Russell. Period.

I won't even fully address the comment about Karl-Anthony Towns and Russell's rank amongst their peers. Towns is pretty firmly in that top-20 mix by almost any metric or mathematical calculation you can come up with. Saying Russell isn't a top-50 player might be an even more confusing statement, but some of us value his game differently. That's fine.

Look, I understand the pessimism. I really do. And I get that we want to be rational and avoid being a homer, but sometimes it leads us into swinging too far in the opposite direction. I feel like that's happening a lot in this thread.

Well...Deangelo Russell led his team to the playoffs. He played the most games and most minutes on that team. Let's remember the first few seasons KG made the playoffs the win totals weren't exactly much higher than the Nets when Russell was leading them. Just sayin.

To further this discussion the players the Nets played in that playoff series nobody was a Nets draft pick. Sure they drafted Jarrett Allen but that was a pick they acquired for Washington for Bogdonvic. Same deal with Lavert. Dinwiddie and Joe Harris were key players they got because other teams let them go. They got paid to take DeMarre Carroll. They got Russell for taking on Mosgov. Basically they built a playoff team from nothing significant. Now they have one of the best basketball players in the world on their roster In Durant (assuming he returns healthy). It was a hell of a rebuild and Russell was a part of that. If he didn't have a good Healthy season that year And the nets look promising but win like 34 games and don't make the playoffs do Durant and Kyrie actually pick Brooklyn? If the Nets didn't get a big FA would they Have payed Russell and keep him or would they have been willing to deal him go assets? There really is a path where Russell's success lead to him leaving. There really are a lot of factors that matter when taking in all these situations. It part of what makes the league both maddening and fascinating.

[bleedspeed]

I get it. We are betting on 2 guys that were ranked 18th and 48th at the beginning of the 19-20 year to lead us to the playoffs after leading their teams to the 2 worst records in the West. We will dominate against Dallas, Denver, and Memphis who's cores is just as young and already winning.

Make space for the banners.

[bleedspeed]

Our guys didn't make the worst-defender team, but are dishonorable mentions.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876876-exposing-nbas-worst-defender-at-every-position

So our guys are the best of the worst! At least they're improving!!

That is positive. It shows they see it as a weakness and are putting their hearts towards getting better at shutting down other teams.