Rubio Plays Squash (the trade rumors)

[AbeVigodaLive]

God the knicks would have to be stupid to trade the 4th pick for Rubio when they could just sign Rondo and get a similar player that actually stays on the court but is a headcase off it.

Why would the Knicks even want either ball-dominant non-shooting PG if they're planning to keep the Triangle offense? It's NEVER worked with that kind of player, has it?

[Monster]

God the knicks would have to be stupid to trade the 4th pick for Rubio when they could just sign Rondo and get a similar player that actually stays on the court but is a headcase off it.

Why would the Knicks even want either ball-dominant non-shooting PG if they're planning to keep the Triangle offense? It's NEVER worked with that kind of player, has it?

Rondo is an even worse fit than Rubio for the Triangle.

[AbeVigodaLive]

God the knicks would have to be stupid to trade the 4th pick for Rubio when they could just sign Rondo and get a similar player that actually stays on the court but is a headcase off it.

Why would the Knicks even want either ball-dominant non-shooting PG if they're planning to keep the Triangle offense? It's NEVER worked with that kind of player, has it?

Rondo is an even worse fit than Rubio for the Triangle.

Maybe. Neither one makes sense to me.
In any event... I just came across this stat for what it's worth...

Rondo was a better 3 point shooter than Ricky Rubio this season:

27 - 86 (31.4%). He was even better once going to Dallas where it was more of a focus, 19 - 52 (35.2%)
Rubio was 13 - 51 (25.5%).

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yeah, the Rubio chatter makes me sad. I mean, literally, small droplets of tears are forming in my eyes. I absolutely love watching him play, flaws and all.....

If you assume that Wiggins, Shabazz, and LaVine all pan out to be part of our "core" going forward - and I'm still not 100% sure about LaVine and Shabazz, but let's assume that they continue to improve along with Wiggins - then you basically have a trio of wings that presumably can fill it up. None of those guys are "3 & D" type role players who fit next to dynamic scoring PGs. They are all capable of being dynamic scorers themselves, so in that respect Rubio is such a great fit next to them because his whole purpose in life is getting the ball to scorers. Hell, look at what he did for Kevin Love!

The other thing about Rubio is that he is the one guy on the team, other than part-timer KG, that brings the defensive intensity night in and night out. No one else even comes close to Rubio in terms of 2-way floor leadership. To me he is almost the ideal guy you want running the show as we develop these young guys around him.

To be fair, didn't Kevin Love still post incredible numbers without Ricky Rubio?

I dig watching the guy play. And I really like watching the subtle things he can do to change games. I'm drinking that Kool-Aid. (I'll always remember when he nearly ripped out John Wall's soul and will to win a couple years ago.) But I also hate how some of his assets are tempered or even restricted by the things he can't do. For example, he can't shoot. He just can't. And he can't get to the basket and finish.

NBA teams are getting smarter and smarter defensively. (well, most anyway) I'm not hip on paying Rubio about $14M to be 2011 era Jason Kidd out there. (e.g., moving the ball, rotating, but facing fewer and fewer chances to actually bend a defense and create opportunities directly for others) I think the Wolves will need more than that to be legit... even with the growth of the young guys.

As of last season, he was by far our best player. I think he's a top 12 NBA starting PG. That's certainly not an all-star, but it's pretty darn good. In the meantime, we have a bunch of kiddies we're trying to groom at the other positions (Wiggins at the 3, LaVine at the 2, Shabazz as a 6th man, Towns/Okafor at the 5).

Do we really want to swap out a very good, yet still young, pass-first veteran in Rubio for yet another rookie or some mediocre veteran? Doesn't make sense to me.

Rubio may not be the right PG long-term, but I don't think we have found out yet, and I sure as hell feel like we've got far bigger problems to solve in the meantime. It would be nice to have some stability at a position for once. And he's young enough to grow with the rest of these guys.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Yeah, the Rubio chatter makes me sad. I mean, literally, small droplets of tears are forming in my eyes. I absolutely love watching him play, flaws and all.....

If you assume that Wiggins, Shabazz, and LaVine all pan out to be part of our "core" going forward - and I'm still not 100% sure about LaVine and Shabazz, but let's assume that they continue to improve along with Wiggins - then you basically have a trio of wings that presumably can fill it up. None of those guys are "3 & D" type role players who fit next to dynamic scoring PGs. They are all capable of being dynamic scorers themselves, so in that respect Rubio is such a great fit next to them because his whole purpose in life is getting the ball to scorers. Hell, look at what he did for Kevin Love!

The other thing about Rubio is that he is the one guy on the team, other than part-timer KG, that brings the defensive intensity night in and night out. No one else even comes close to Rubio in terms of 2-way floor leadership. To me he is almost the ideal guy you want running the show as we develop these young guys around him.

To be fair, didn't Kevin Love still post incredible numbers without Ricky Rubio?

I dig watching the guy play. And I really like watching the subtle things he can do to change games. I'm drinking that Kool-Aid. (I'll always remember when he nearly ripped out John Wall's soul and will to win a couple years ago.) But I also hate how some of his assets are tempered or even restricted by the things he can't do. For example, he can't shoot. He just can't. And he can't get to the basket and finish.

NBA teams are getting smarter and smarter defensively. (well, most anyway) I'm not hip on paying Rubio about $14M to be 2011 era Jason Kidd out there. (e.g., moving the ball, rotating, but facing fewer and fewer chances to actually bend a defense and create opportunities directly for others) I think the Wolves will need more than that to be legit... even with the growth of the young guys.

As of last season, he was by far our best player. I think he's a top 12 NBA starting PG. That's certainly not an all-star, but it's pretty darn good. In the meantime, we have a bunch of kiddies we're trying to groom at the other positions (Wiggins at the 3, LaVine at the 2, Shabazz as a 6th man, Towns/Okafor at the 5).

Do we really want to swap out a very good, yet still young, pass-first veteran in Rubio for yet another rookie or some mediocre veteran? Doesn't make sense to me.

Rubio may not be the right PG long-term, but I don't think we have found out yet, and I sure as hell feel like we've got far bigger problems to solve in the meantime. It would be nice to have some stability at a position for once. And he's young enough to grow with the rest of these guys.

I agree... sorta.

I put Rubio anywhere from around 12 - 20 as far as PGs go. He's in that middle tier somewhere... doing some super awesome things... and some things worse than literally everybody else.

And he would definitely bring some stability to such a young club. This is where it gets dicey. The team is still a 66-loss team, even with injuries or whatever. The team still sucked balls. So there's a lot of growth ahead. And we THINK Wiggins is a future star. But we don't know for certain. We THINK the #1 pick will be a future star. But we don't know for certain. We THINK LaVine could be more than a Gerald Green/Beasley/Insert other promising player tease. But we don't know for certain. What we do know is that Rubio is NOT a future superstar, and probably not even a star.

IF the Wolves had a chance at a guy like Russell and they think he could join the ranks of Wiggins and #1 pick as a future star in this league... yeah, I'm in. In that case, he's not "just another rookie"... because that suggests his ceiling is just another player.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Abe, You are basically advocating a 76ers approach, which is to churn out existing good talent that aren't superstars in exchange for unknown quantities, with the hope that somewhere along the lines, you hit a homerun. Perhaps we should have hired Sam Hinkie as our GM? ;-)

I believe in a balance of keeping known quantities and taking a few swings. Between Wiggins, Shabazz, LaVine, and this year's #1 pick, I feel like that is plenty of big swings. And Wiggins at least has certainly shown some promise. Churning out Rubio for a rookie PG will practically guarantee another sub 25-win season, especially if paired with a rookie Center. Is that really fair to us fans? Besides, KG can only mentor so many people at once!

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe, You are basically advocating a 76ers approach, which is to churn out existing good talent that aren't superstars in exchange for unknown quantities, with the hope that somewhere along the lines, you hit a homerun. Perhaps we should have hired Sam Hinkie as our GM? ;-)

I believe in a balance of keeping known quantities and taking a few swings. Between Wiggins, Shabazz, LaVine, and this year's #1 pick, I feel like that is plenty of big swings. And Wiggins at least has certainly shown some promise. Churning out Rubio for a rookie PG will practically guarantee another sub 25-win season, especially if paired with a rookie Center. Is that really fair to us fans? Besides, KG can only mentor so many people at once!

I'm not advocating tanking an entire season for the CHANCE at a high pick 9 months later. I'm advocating that IF the Wolves are super high on a guy like Russell and IF they have a legit chance to grab him directly by trading Rubio... that they should do it.

Basically, the difference is that Philly is tanking for the chance at drafting a future superstar. The Wolves would be at the point of actually drafting that guy. Actually those guy(s).

To sacrifice only one season to end up with THREE possible superstars would put the Wolves years ahead of Philly. Or Orlando. Or New York. Or Sacramento. Et al. It all depends though on just how high the Wolves are on Russell. If they dig him, go all in.



[Note: I don't see a chance in hell that a Rubio package can get the Wolves to #3 though.]

[bleedspeed]

I am curious if we could trade Rubio for any player in this draft which players people would do it for.

I would say the following:
[list]
[*] Russell
[*] Towns
[*] Okafor
[*] Mudiay
[*] Hezonja
[/list]

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

One of the most injured players on our team brings stability? He brings the opposite. When he goes down the ship falls apart. That's not stable. That's a house of cards. Durability is stability in the NBA and Ricky hasn't been durable to this point in his career. If Ricky gets hurt again we are right back to Lavine playing significant time at the PG spot. Also saying that trading Ricky turns us into Hinkie is a joke. This is year 1 of the rebuild for us. Hinkie has been doing this for several years now and he's literally taking guys he knows can't play so he can prolong the tank while still collecting assets. Trading Ricky for a guy who will play for us next year is not a Hinkie move.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Abe, You are basically advocating a 76ers approach, which is to churn out existing good talent that aren't superstars in exchange for unknown quantities, with the hope that somewhere along the lines, you hit a homerun. Perhaps we should have hired Sam Hinkie as our GM? ;-)

I believe in a balance of keeping known quantities and taking a few swings. Between Wiggins, Shabazz, LaVine, and this year's #1 pick, I feel like that is plenty of big swings. And Wiggins at least has certainly shown some promise. Churning out Rubio for a rookie PG will practically guarantee another sub 25-win season, especially if paired with a rookie Center. Is that really fair to us fans? Besides, KG can only mentor so many people at once!

I'm not advocating tanking an entire season for the CHANCE at a high pick 9 months later. I'm advocating that IF the Wolves are super high on a guy like Russell and IF they have a legit chance to grab him directly by trading Rubio... that they should do it.

Basically, the difference is that Philly is tanking for the chance at drafting a future superstar. The Wolves would be at the point of actually drafting that guy. Actually those guy(s).

To sacrifice only one season to end up with THREE possible superstars would put the Wolves years ahead of Philly. Or Orlando. Or New York. Or Sacramento. Et al. It all depends though on just how high the Wolves are on Russell. If they dig him, go all in.



[Note: I don't see a chance in hell that a Rubio package can get the Wolves to #3 though.]

Well, when you get rid of your good talent and tank an entire season, it's synonymous with getting a high pick. I'm not sure what kind of chance is involved with that; it's pretty damn certain. The Sixers have consistently churned out solid players for crappy records (and a stockpile of cap space and future picks), which in turn led to high draft picks.

I think you are right that no one is going to trade a top 5 or 6 pick for Rubio anyway. And I sure as hell wouldn't trade him for anything less, as once you get below that level, there is less than a 50% chance of even getting a starting-caliber player, much less a future star (not that it can't happen - it's just that the historical odds would be heavily against it).

I'd rather bank on Rubio getting and staying reasonably healthy. Heck, we know he can go a full season without injuries. The year before last, he played all 82 games.