Minnesota Sports Forum

alexftbl8181 wrote:

no.... if they didn't make the trade they would of still had Bennett and Wiggins cap on the books which combined, pretty much equals what Love was making. With Irving's extension kicked in, they did not have the 20 million dollars in cap space it would of took to sign Love to a max deal

Highly unlikely that they would have picked up Bennett's salary for this year, and Bennett and Wiggins weren't close to what Love was making. As I stated earlier Lebron had an opt out specifically to provide the team with flexibility to fit in another salary if needed.

sjm34 wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:

no.... if they didn't make the trade they would of still had Bennett and Wiggins cap on the books which combined, pretty much equals what Love was making. With Irving's extension kicked in, they did not have the 20 million dollars in cap space it would of took to sign Love to a max deal

Highly unlikely that they would have picked up Bennett's salary for this year, and Bennett and Wiggins weren't close to what Love was making. As I stated earlier Lebron had an opt out specifically to provide the team with flexibility to fit in another salary if needed.

The Cavs are at about 46.5 million with 7 players not including Bennett, Shumpert and normal cap holds in your scenario. So I highly doubt they end up with 20 million to fit Love in. Lebron doesn't count as zero on the cap. He has a cap hold to keep his bird rights specifically so what you suggest can't happen. Same with Shumpert. I just don't see a way for it to work without dumping most all of their team outside of Wiggins, Kyrie and Lebron and nobody is taking Varajao off their hands for 10 million a year with his injury history.

I think we smashed them in the trade. Maybe you could say it was a win-win, but at best I think it's a marginal win for the Cavs and a phenomenal win for the Wolves.

Would anyone here trade back if they had the chance? I don't think anyone would consider it for a second. Maybe the Cavs are happier with Love than Wiggins, but I'm not convinced.

Anyone who looks at our records, or how far the Cavs made it compared to us needs to remember that we are comparing the trade - not our overall rosters. We didn't include Lebron in the trade. That would be like if I'm a gazzillionaire and I trade my Ferrari for my mates by little old Hyundai and then thinking I win that trade because I'm still richer.

I loved the trade at the time, and I love it much more a year later.

One more positive about the trade... It has set up some great conversation on this board during some quiet times.

Go wolves, go Wiggins.

If Love was locked up to a max contract, we 100% don't make the trade. Don't let your 2015 Wiggins bias make you think any different. We were in a situation that forced us to trade an All-NBA talent. Very luckily, we were able to get a potential star in return. For us, that's the best return possible in that spot.

When judging who wins a trade, though, you have to take into account why the other team did it. If (more likely, WHEN) the Cavs win a championship, they cannot at all be looked at as losers of the trade. It doesn't matter what Wiggins does because the goal of the NBA is to win rings. It's ridiculously tough to even win one, and acquiring Love will have helped them get that first ring in Cleveland.

That's why it's a win-win, as of now. Both teams got what they wanted.

That's a reasonable perspective Cam. If Love gets them over the hump, they won't regret the trade. So it could be considered a win win.

But that's were we also make hypothetical judgements - would Wiggins also have gotten them over the hump if they win the title. Are the Cavs genuinely better than they would have been with Love than with Wiggins? I'm not sure on that (maybe my biases as a Wolves fan), so the fact that it's questionable while there's no doubt on the Wolves side of things tilts it in the Wolves favour for me -and this is all based on the assumption that Love gets them over the hump to win a title. As it is now, one year on, I think the Wolves smashed them in the trade.

And you're right that the Wolves wouldn't have done the trade if Love was locked in long term, but given our knowledge now (Wiggins performance in his rookie year showing he has clear star potential), we may have been better doing the trade even if Love was locked up. People often display 'regret avoidance' where they would rather remain with the status quo in case a change turns out badly. I think we're in a much better position now than we were 2 years ago before we knew Love was on his way out because our ceiling is so much higher.

Shumway wrote:That's a reasonable perspective Cam. If Love gets them over the hump, they won't regret the trade. So it could be considered a win win.

But that's were we also make hypothetical judgements - would Wiggins also have gotten them over the hump if they win the title. Are the Cavs genuinely better than they would have been with Love than with Wiggins? I'm not sure on that (maybe my biases as a Wolves fan), so the fact that it's questionable while there's no doubt on the Wolves side of things tilts it in the Wolves favour for me -and this is all based on the assumption that Love gets them over the hump to win a title. As it is now, one year on, I think the Wolves smashed them in the trade.

And you're right that the Wolves wouldn't have done the trade if Love was locked in long term, but given our knowledge now (Wiggins performance in his rookie year showing he has clear star potential), we may have been better doing the trade even if Love was locked up. People often display 'regret avoidance' where they would rather remain with the status quo in case a change turns out badly. I think we're in a much better position now than we were 2 years ago before we knew Love was on his way out because our ceiling is so much higher.

Actually, the Wolves are coming off a 66-loss season. Potential is just that... potential.

The Wolves in 26 years have never sniffed an NBA title. The Cavs were two games away last season and will be battling for it again this season WITH Love as a key cog... and probably beyond that.

There are some legit reasons for Wolves fans to be upbeat right now. Wiggins and Towns is a great start -- one that few franchises get to have (back to back #1 picks) -- but for now, it's all still potential. We do know that when Love was traded, he was arguably a Top 10 NBA talent. We're HOPING that Wiggins and/or Towns get there someday.

Neither is remotely close to that now. And there's a legit chance, neither one gets there... and there's no chance that when they do, they'll be in a Wolves uniform. I'm excited... as excited as I've been in a long time... but I'm not counting on anything being the sure thing with this Wolves team.

Cleveland went for the titles now. Its star is 30 years old. A lockout is only two years away robbing them of "possibly" an entire season. Kevin Love IS a better player than Andrew Wiggins right now. Kevin Love IS a better fit on the Cavs than Wiggins right now. Kevin Love IS helping the Cavs more than Wiggins would have.

Cleveland wins the trade based on those factors. But wait, in Minnesota... where the team was destined for mediocrity and in need of a complete overhaul... Minnesota wins the trade. Both teams get what they need? Whoa! The Wolves needed a legit Promise of Hope team. Now, they have it. But when (IF) this team ever gets to a spot like Cleveland was in where they need something to put them over the top for a title... I hope they go for that title instead of playing for future promise and hope.

Cavsdon't need Love to win a Championship. One could argue that Mozgoz was more important to Cav's title chances then Love. Loves numbers went down when Mozgoz arrived and the winning started.

bleedspeed177 wrote:Cavsdon't need Love to win a Championship. One could argue that Mozgoz was more important to Cav's title chances then Love. Loves numbers went down when Mozgoz arrived and the winning started.

Well the numbers went down, but the efficiency went up. As did his defensive numbers

alexftbl8181 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Cavsdon't need Love to win a Championship. One could argue that Mozgoz was more important to Cav's title chances then Love. Loves numbers went down when Mozgoz arrived and the winning started.

Well the numbers went down, but the efficiency went up. As did his defensive numbers

The real key factor of the discussion of this trade was Love was hurt we saw the Cavs give a fight to the best/deepest team in the league. We saw the Cavs play meaningful games WITHOUT Love so it's easy to imagine him not being there because...he wasn't. It's also pretty easy to wonder if Wiggins would have been more helpful especially offensively than the guys the Cavs had out there in the Finals plus TT playing extremely well after Love went down.

monsterpile wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:Cavsdon't need Love to win a Championship. One could argue that Mozgoz was more important to Cav's title chances then Love. Loves numbers went down when Mozgoz arrived and the winning started.

Well the numbers went down, but the efficiency went up. As did his defensive numbers

The real key factor of the discussion of this trade was Love was hurt we saw the Cavs give a fight to the best/deepest team in the league. We saw the Cavs play meaningful games WITHOUT Love so it's easy to imagine him not being there because...he wasn't. It's also pretty easy to wonder if Wiggins would have been more helpful especially offensively than the guys the Cavs had out there in the Finals plus TT playing extremely well after Love went down.

Tristan Thompson does some things pretty damn well. He's an energy guy who hustles and can rebound. Plus, he can guard the rim a bit and in space... which is pretty rare.

But let's not get too carried away with "extremely well" when he did a couple of things great... and ignore all the stuff he can't/didn't do.

The guy went 1 - 9 fg for 4 points combined in the first two games of the NBA Finals. That was in 88 minutes of playing time. Overall, he was about a 10 ppg / 11 reb guy in the playoffs.