thedoper wrote:I think the solution to the Wiggins problem has always been simpler than it's made out to be here. To me it's not blind optimism to think that more shots can go in. Improved shooting has happened for a lot of players. I think the biggest letdown with Wiggins was that it looked like he had the tools to be a good shooter and has been far from that. If more shots go in he's a valuable asset. Not too complicated. Some of that is coaching better shot selection, but the majority of that is Wiggins ability to hit them.
He actually has multiple problems, with shooting being just one of them. Yes, if suddenly he became a high-volume, high percentage 3-point shooter, his value would go up immensely.
But let's say his shooting always stayed pretty mediocre. If he instead, for example, played his ass off and focused on defense/hustle stuff, he has all the physical tools in the world to be a monster defensively. Hustle and defense are about as much in a player's control as anything. So that one is simple too!
Or how about ball handling? If he really worked and improved on his ball handling, he'd be a much bigger threat going to the basket where he has proven to be a good finisher and foul drawer. He'd get a lot more highly efficient layups, dunks and free throws or opening up the floor for open shots from team mates. So that one is kind of simple.
Or how about shot selection? If he stopped taking step back long-2's and long pull ups off the dribble, he'd be a much more efficient scorer. That's within his control, so that one is simple too.
So yes, you can take any number of single problems and make the claim that if he only improved in that one simple area, he'd be a lot more effective. The most shocking thing about Wiggins is he's really no better in any of this than he was as a 1st or 2nd year player - and perhaps worse in some regards.
I don't care how he makes them, the shots need to go in. I'm not just talking about 3 point shots, he's a below average shooter from just about everywhere. I don't think he's suddenly going to be a savant with ball handling. That to me is a lifetime skill. There are a lot of factors that have gone into him being an inefficient shooter as you are touching on. I really don't care how or where he makes more, he just has to become a better shooter from everywhere and be at or above league average.
As for his defense, I have never thought he deserved the lack of credit he gets there. He hustles chasing perimeter defenders every game and has improved immensely in my opinion. I don't expect that other people's perception of him is going to change in this area either way.
The only thing that I see that will change people's opinion is if the ball starts going in from wherever he is shooting, as getting shots off seem to be his only skill that isn't debatable. He takes shots.
Doper, I think you're going in the right direction here. The funny thing is when his shot is falling the complaints about the rest of his game subside. I don't understand why his shot comes and goes, or why he won't dunk the ball in close. But if he made shots at a more efficient level his defensive reputation would probably be better too.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Doper, I think you're going in the right direction here. The funny thing is when his shot is falling the complaints about the rest of his game subside. I don't understand why his shot comes and goes, or why he won't dunk the ball in close. But if he made shots at a more efficient level his defensive reputation would probably be better too.
He's a SAB that's why. I don't think he really cares to try. Every once in a while he will go to the rim hard and dunk on people, like when Noel got concussed during Wiggins 40-10 game at OKC. Wiggins has potential to be that player, he just doesn't seem to care. KG said he needed to motivate him in practice to play/try hard. Evenryone has said it that has been around him. He just doesn't play hard/doesn't care. Taylor said if Wiggins pinky swears to try he'll give him max money.
It doesn't matter what your talent is when you don't give 100%, you'll never be a good/great player.
There are several problems, but first and foremost it is on the coaches for not holding him accountable on the court. How about taking him out of a game when not doing as he is told. Isn't that called coaching?
Why did Thibs give him the big deal?
How about the next time he takes a long two without reason (shot clock) the coach pulls him. Does it again and he doesn't start the next game. Neither of these have been tried in five years!
As for turnovers and fouls, he hasn't been getting any calls when driving the lane. I have watched replays with him getting fouled as many as four times by two different defenders without getting a call. It is a lot easier to turn the ball over when a guy grabs your elbow while dribbling.
I have no issue with is defense whatsoever.
Stop coddling him or trade him. Sitting around wishing for improvement is wasting everyone's time.
A good coach isn't gonna make him like basketball. It starts and ends there.
Wiggins hasn't lived up to expectations, but the Wolves (especially Glen Taylor) reward him the way you reward an A student in school even though Wiggins consistently gets C's and D's. I've never seen Wiggins play 17 minutes because of how bad he was. All I've seen this team walk on eggshells around him and all we've gotten out of it is two straight seasons of him saying "well it wasn't my best season."
If anything, a scary proposition is that Wiggins somehow plays so much better, and yet the thought won't be, "finally we can trade him." It will be, "well maybe he's turned the corner" and giving him every opportunity to revert back into the guy he is now. The sooner Culver and Okogie take most of his minutes, the better we'll be.
WildWolf2813 wrote:A good coach isn't gonna make him like basketball. It starts and ends there.
Wiggins hasn't lived up to expectations, but the Wolves (especially Glen Taylor) reward him the way you reward an A student in school even though Wiggins consistently gets C's and D's. I've never seen Wiggins play 17 minutes because of how bad he was. All I've seen this team walk on eggshells around him and all we've gotten out of it is two straight seasons of him saying "well it wasn't my best season."
If anything, a scary proposition is that Wiggins somehow plays so much better, and yet the thought won't be, "finally we can trade him." It will be, "well maybe he's turned the corner" and giving him every opportunity to revert back into the guy he is now. The sooner Culver and Okogie take most of his minutes, the better we'll be.
WildWolf2813 wrote:A good coach isn't gonna make him like basketball. It starts and ends there.
Wiggins hasn't lived up to expectations, but the Wolves (especially Glen Taylor) reward him the way you reward an A student in school even though Wiggins consistently gets C's and D's. I've never seen Wiggins play 17 minutes because of how bad he was. All I've seen this team walk on eggshells around him and all we've gotten out of it is two straight seasons of him saying "well it wasn't my best season."
If anything, a scary proposition is that Wiggins somehow plays so much better, and yet the thought won't be, "finally we can trade him." It will be, "well maybe he's turned the corner" and giving him every opportunity to revert back into the guy he is now. The sooner Culver and Okogie take most of his minutes, the better we'll be.
Reminds me of the Kentucky basketball fan base who were afraid Tubby Smith would win the national title, and then they wouldn't be able to fire him.
sjm34 wrote:There are several problems, but first and foremost it is on the coaches for not holding him accountable on the court. How about taking him out of a game when not doing as he is told. Isn't that called coaching?
Why did Thibs give him the big deal?
How about the next time he takes a long two without reason (shot clock) the coach pulls him. Does it again and he doesn't start the next game. Neither of these have been tried in five years!
As for turnovers and fouls, he hasn't been getting any calls when driving the lane. I have watched replays with him getting fouled as many as four times by two different defenders without getting a call. It is a lot easier to turn the ball over when a guy grabs your elbow while dribbling.
I have no issue with is defense whatsoever.
Stop coddling him or trade him. Sitting around wishing for improvement is wasting everyone's time.
The stats say otherwise however. He is consistently, every year rated poorly defensively. He rebounds terribly, does not block nor get many steals either.
If he could become avg on both ends I would be ecstatic.
There is nothing new to talk about Wiggins. We won't have any significant information for weeks from now. Even if there was something positive to get excited about we probably better hold off till game 35 of the season before believing it's legit. So...I'll see you all at Wiggins bridge near the end of December. Don't make any significant plans for this event...
Ok who am I kidding I'll still post something about Wiggins between now and game 35 but I'm hoping I can at least hold out till some training camp hype or preseason or something. Lol Anywho carry on...or don't. Meanwhile here is some Wiggins highlights everyone will likely enjoy.
sjm34 wrote:There are several problems, but first and foremost it is on the coaches for not holding him accountable on the court. How about taking him out of a game when not doing as he is told. Isn't that called coaching?
Why did Thibs give him the big deal?
How about the next time he takes a long two without reason (shot clock) the coach pulls him. Does it again and he doesn't start the next game. Neither of these have been tried in five years!
As for turnovers and fouls, he hasn't been getting any calls when driving the lane. I have watched replays with him getting fouled as many as four times by two different defenders without getting a call. It is a lot easier to turn the ball over when a guy grabs your elbow while dribbling.
I have no issue with is defense whatsoever.
Stop coddling him or trade him. Sitting around wishing for improvement is wasting everyone's time.
The stats say otherwise however. He is consistently, every year rated poorly defensively. He rebounds terribly, does not block nor get many steals either. , If he could become avg on both ends I would be ecstatic.
Actually, his steal rate (1.0) and his block rate (.6) are average and above average.
Look at NBA.com's advanced stats for Defensive Rating and Net Rating and Wiggins's defense isn't nearly as terrible as you think. In fact, D'Angelo Russell's defensive rating and net rating were worse than Wiggins in 3 of the last 4 seasons and Lip calls Russell "elite" and Cam calls Russell a top 30 player. Go figure.
