What about Wiggins?

[Lipoli390]

Wiggins is no mystery to those of us who've been watching the Wolves the past 5 seasons since Flip traded for his draft rights. He's gifted with enormous athleticism and terrific length for an NBA wing. Jimmy Butler repeatedly referred to Wiggins, not KAT, as the Wolves most gifted player. Flip told me directly that he expected Wiggins to become a top 10 player in the League -- not top 10 at his position, but top 10 in the League. After winning rookie-of-the-year honors, we had every reason to believe that Flip's expectation would eventually be fulfilled.

Here we are 5 years after his promising rookie season, and Wiggins is nothing more than a enormously overpaid rotation player. He's a highly inefficient scorer whose clumsy ballhandling makes defenders salivate at the prospect of turning the ball over every time Wiggins takes more than 2 dribbles. Except for some modest strides on the defensive end the past couple seasons, Andrew's game has actually regressed from his first two seasons. Behind the numbers is the obvious - a lack of the intensity and competitiveness essential to success in the NBA.

Yet, we're still hoping that after 5 seasons Wiggins suddenly becomes someone he has thus far proven he's not. Stranger things have happened I guess. Wiggins appears to be invested in this offseason more than in any previous offseason. He likes Ryan Saunders and perhaps his ego was finally bruised by all the talk this past year about his bloated contract, the Wolves purported interest in trading him and the fact that no team seems to him and his contract. But we should conform our expectations to reality, understanding that the chances of Andrew suddenly becoming intensely competitive and improving a basic motor skill like ballhandling at age 24/25 after 5 seasons in the League are pretty remote.

None of this is news to the guys who post regularly on this Board. However, get a load of this excerpt from a recent article:

"Creating a unique lineup with Andrew Wiggins as the primary ball-handler also creates an opportunity for a switch-heavy defense unlike anything Timberwolves fans have ever seen.
The idea of "Point Wiggins" may sound crazy, but this type of radical thinking is what Timberwolves' fans should expect with the new regime."

The only word in this article that makes sense is "crazy." It's amazing that there is anyone following the Wolves who would actually believe what this guy wrote. But I guess the world needs dreamers. They make life more interesting. I just hope that no one in the Wolves front office or on the Wolves coaching staff shares the same fantasy. The "point-Wiggins" experiment has failed before our eyes over and over again. The results are in: The player, Andrew Wiggins, doesn't mix with the concept, point-anything. So let the dreamers among us write about it. I just pray we no longer have a front office or coaching staff inclined to build strategy on precepts of fantasy. Darko wasn't the passing equivalent of Vlady. To the contrary, he was a wash-out underachiever who no other team in the League wanted. Thankfully, Wiggins is no Darko. But Wiggins is not a point-forward - not remotely close.

At best, he's a slasher off the ball who can score going to the hoop on feeds from his teammates while also hitting corner threes and playing tough one-on-one defense. Of course, all that assumes a level of development as well as a level of tenacity and competitive we have yet to see from him after five seasons. I refuse to completely close my mind to that possibility. It's not impossible and there we all know that a hope with a small dash of fantasy is a key survival tool for Wolves fans. But we can't let a small bit of fantasy turn into a colossal delusion. Wiggins is not and never will be a primary ballhandler/distributor! I have to believe that Rosas and Saunders know that.

[Monster]

Wiggins is no mystery to those of us who've been watching the Wolves the past 5 seasons since Flip traded for his draft rights. He's gifted with enormous athleticism and terrific length for an NBA wing. Jimmy Butler repeatedly referred to Wiggins, not KAT, as the Wolves most gifted player. Flip told me directly that he expected Wiggins to become a top 10 player in the League -- not top 10 at his position, but top 10 in the League. After winning rookie-of-the-year honors, we had every reason to believe that Flip's expectation would eventually be fulfilled.

Here we are 5 years after his promising rookie season, and Wiggins is nothing more than a enormously overpaid rotation player. He's a highly inefficient scorer whose clumsy ballhandling makes defenders salivate at the prospect of turning the ball over every time Wiggins takes more than 2 dribbles. Except for some modest strides on the defensive end the past couple seasons, Andrew's game has actually regressed from his first two seasons. Behind the numbers is the obvious - a lack of the intensity and competitiveness essential to success in the NBA.

Yet, we're still hoping that after 5 seasons Wiggins suddenly becomes someone he has thus far proven he's not. Stranger things have happened I guess. Wiggins appears to be invested in this offseason more than in any previous offseason. He likes Ryan Saunders and perhaps his ego was finally bruised by all the talk this past year about his bloated contract, the Wolves purported interest in trading him and the fact that no team seems to him and his contract. But we should conform our expectations to reality, understanding that the chances of Andrew suddenly becoming intensely competitive and improving a basic motor skill like ballhandling at age 24/25 after 5 seasons in the League are pretty remote.

None of this is news to the guys who post regularly on this Board. However, get a load of this excerpt from a recent article:

"Creating a unique lineup with Andrew Wiggins as the primary ball-handler also creates an opportunity for a switch-heavy defense unlike anything Timberwolves fans have ever seen.
The idea of "Point Wiggins" may sound crazy, but this type of radical thinking is what Timberwolves' fans should expect with the new regime."

The only word in this article that makes sense is "crazy." It's amazing that there is anyone following the Wolves who would actually believe what this guy wrote. But I guess the world needs dreamers. They make life more interesting. I just hope that no one in the Wolves front office or on the Wolves coaching staff shares the same fantasy. The "point-Wiggins" experiment has failed before our eyes over and over again. The results are in: The player, Andrew Wiggins, doesn't mix with the concept, point-anything. So let the dreamers among us write about it. I just pray we no longer have a front office or coaching staff inclined to build strategy on precepts of fantasy. Darko wasn't the passing equivalent of Vlady. To the contrary, he was a wash-out underachiever who no other team in the League wanted. Thankfully, Wiggins is no Darko. But Wiggins is not a point-forward - not remotely close.

At best, he's a slasher off the ball who can score going to the hoop on feeds from his teammates while also hitting corner threes and playing tough one-on-one defense. Of course, all that assumes a level of development as well as a level of tenacity and competitive we have yet to see from him after five seasons. I refuse to completely close my mind to that possibility. It's not impossible and there we all know that a hope with a small dash of fantasy is a key survival tool for Wolves fans. But we can't let a small bit of fantasy turn into a colossal delusion. Wiggins is not and never will be a primary ballhandler/distributor! I have to believe that Rosas and Saunders know that.

There is a massively stark difference between the consideration of Darko and Ryan Hollins getting the leeway they got and trying Wiggins as a primarily ball handler. The Wolves has Kevin Love and even if you didn't see I'm becoming the pseudo star he became it was pretty obvious that he was fairly talented and deserved more of a role than those guys. What are the obvious options the Wolves have handling the ball? Teague? Sure but he isn't a part of the long term play and neither is Napier? Culver? Yeah he is probably going to get his shot too but he is a rookie. Giving the ball to Wiggins and letting him do things isn't taking the ball out of someone's hand that has shown signs of being the next Iggy or something.

Furthermore when Wiggins gets stripped it's typically when he is in the paint and nearly at the rim. His perimeter ball handling isn't magical but i don't worry about him too much out there.

Now if Wiggins (or quite frankly almost anyone else) has the ball a whole bunch and Towns doesn't then that is a big problem. The funny thing is it seems like Wiggins and Towns has done some good things in the pick and roll together. Do I think that's something you can just go to a whole bunch over and over? No probably not but why in the world haven't we seen more of that? It doesn't make a ton of sense.

[Coolbreeze44]

I'd play to his strengths and try to camouflage his weaknesses. His strengths are immense, but so are his weaknesses. I'd never play him more than 6 consecutive minutes unless he's in a complete zone. I would try to create a mismatch on offense and post him up against smaller defenders. On defense I'd coach him to stop being so passive and take some risks.

[Lipoli390]

Wiggins is no mystery to those of us who've been watching the Wolves the past 5 seasons since Flip traded for his draft rights. He's gifted with enormous athleticism and terrific length for an NBA wing. Jimmy Butler repeatedly referred to Wiggins, not KAT, as the Wolves most gifted player. Flip told me directly that he expected Wiggins to become a top 10 player in the League -- not top 10 at his position, but top 10 in the League. After winning rookie-of-the-year honors, we had every reason to believe that Flip's expectation would eventually be fulfilled.

Here we are 5 years after his promising rookie season, and Wiggins is nothing more than a enormously overpaid rotation player. He's a highly inefficient scorer whose clumsy ballhandling makes defenders salivate at the prospect of turning the ball over every time Wiggins takes more than 2 dribbles. Except for some modest strides on the defensive end the past couple seasons, Andrew's game has actually regressed from his first two seasons. Behind the numbers is the obvious - a lack of the intensity and competitiveness essential to success in the NBA.

Yet, we're still hoping that after 5 seasons Wiggins suddenly becomes someone he has thus far proven he's not. Stranger things have happened I guess. Wiggins appears to be invested in this offseason more than in any previous offseason. He likes Ryan Saunders and perhaps his ego was finally bruised by all the talk this past year about his bloated contract, the Wolves purported interest in trading him and the fact that no team seems to him and his contract. But we should conform our expectations to reality, understanding that the chances of Andrew suddenly becoming intensely competitive and improving a basic motor skill like ballhandling at age 24/25 after 5 seasons in the League are pretty remote.

None of this is news to the guys who post regularly on this Board. However, get a load of this excerpt from a recent article:

"Creating a unique lineup with Andrew Wiggins as the primary ball-handler also creates an opportunity for a switch-heavy defense unlike anything Timberwolves fans have ever seen.
The idea of "Point Wiggins" may sound crazy, but this type of radical thinking is what Timberwolves' fans should expect with the new regime."

The only word in this article that makes sense is "crazy." It's amazing that there is anyone following the Wolves who would actually believe what this guy wrote. But I guess the world needs dreamers. They make life more interesting. I just hope that no one in the Wolves front office or on the Wolves coaching staff shares the same fantasy. The "point-Wiggins" experiment has failed before our eyes over and over again. The results are in: The player, Andrew Wiggins, doesn't mix with the concept, point-anything. So let the dreamers among us write about it. I just pray we no longer have a front office or coaching staff inclined to build strategy on precepts of fantasy. Darko wasn't the passing equivalent of Vlady. To the contrary, he was a wash-out underachiever who no other team in the League wanted. Thankfully, Wiggins is no Darko. But Wiggins is not a point-forward - not remotely close.

At best, he's a slasher off the ball who can score going to the hoop on feeds from his teammates while also hitting corner threes and playing tough one-on-one defense. Of course, all that assumes a level of development as well as a level of tenacity and competitive we have yet to see from him after five seasons. I refuse to completely close my mind to that possibility. It's not impossible and there we all know that a hope with a small dash of fantasy is a key survival tool for Wolves fans. But we can't let a small bit of fantasy turn into a colossal delusion. Wiggins is not and never will be a primary ballhandler/distributor! I have to believe that Rosas and Saunders know that.

There is a massively stark difference between the consideration of Darko and Ryan Hollins getting the leeway they got and trying Wiggins as a primarily ball handler. The Wolves has Kevin Love and even if you didn't see I'm becoming the pseudo star he became it was pretty obvious that he was fairly talented and deserved more of a role than those guys. What are the obvious options the Wolves have handling the ball? Teague? Sure but he isn't a part of the long term play and neither is Napier? Culver? Yeah he is probably going to get his shot too but he is a rookie. Giving the ball to Wiggins and letting him do things isn't taking the ball out of someone's hand that has shown signs of being the next Iggy or something.

Furthermore when Wiggins gets stripped it's typically when he is in the paint and nearly at the rim. His perimeter ball handling isn't magical but i don't worry about him too much out there.

Now if Wiggins (or quite frankly almost anyone else) has the ball a whole bunch and Towns doesn't then that is a big problem. The funny thing is it seems like Wiggins and Towns has done some good things in the pick and roll together. Do I think that's something you can just go to a whole bunch over and over? No probably not but why in the world haven't we seen more of that? It doesn't make a ton of sense.

Monster - I think you have a strong contrarian streak. :). Honestly, Wiggins as primary ballhandler or a point-forward, is beyond ridiculous.

[Lipoli390]

I'd play to his strengths and try to camouflage his weaknesses. His strengths are immense, but so are his weaknesses. I'd never play him more than 6 consecutive minutes unless he's in a complete zone. I would try to create a mismatch on offense and post him up against smaller defenders. On defense I'd coach him to stop being so passive and take some risks.

You nailed it, Cool. Slashing off the ball, posting up, positioning off the ball for corner threes -- those are his strengths. I'm hoping we finally have a coaching staff that plays to those strengths. Making Wiggins the team's point-forward or primary ballhandler as suggested in that article I quoted is exactly the wrong way to go. My hope for Wiggins lies in the fact that his prior head coaches have repeatedly put him in a positions that magnify his weaknesses while failing to optimize his strengths. Hopefully, that will change.

[Monster]

Wiggins is no mystery to those of us who've been watching the Wolves the past 5 seasons since Flip traded for his draft rights. He's gifted with enormous athleticism and terrific length for an NBA wing. Jimmy Butler repeatedly referred to Wiggins, not KAT, as the Wolves most gifted player. Flip told me directly that he expected Wiggins to become a top 10 player in the League -- not top 10 at his position, but top 10 in the League. After winning rookie-of-the-year honors, we had every reason to believe that Flip's expectation would eventually be fulfilled.

Here we are 5 years after his promising rookie season, and Wiggins is nothing more than a enormously overpaid rotation player. He's a highly inefficient scorer whose clumsy ballhandling makes defenders salivate at the prospect of turning the ball over every time Wiggins takes more than 2 dribbles. Except for some modest strides on the defensive end the past couple seasons, Andrew's game has actually regressed from his first two seasons. Behind the numbers is the obvious - a lack of the intensity and competitiveness essential to success in the NBA.

Yet, we're still hoping that after 5 seasons Wiggins suddenly becomes someone he has thus far proven he's not. Stranger things have happened I guess. Wiggins appears to be invested in this offseason more than in any previous offseason. He likes Ryan Saunders and perhaps his ego was finally bruised by all the talk this past year about his bloated contract, the Wolves purported interest in trading him and the fact that no team seems to him and his contract. But we should conform our expectations to reality, understanding that the chances of Andrew suddenly becoming intensely competitive and improving a basic motor skill like ballhandling at age 24/25 after 5 seasons in the League are pretty remote.

None of this is news to the guys who post regularly on this Board. However, get a load of this excerpt from a recent article:

"Creating a unique lineup with Andrew Wiggins as the primary ball-handler also creates an opportunity for a switch-heavy defense unlike anything Timberwolves fans have ever seen.
The idea of "Point Wiggins" may sound crazy, but this type of radical thinking is what Timberwolves' fans should expect with the new regime."

The only word in this article that makes sense is "crazy." It's amazing that there is anyone following the Wolves who would actually believe what this guy wrote. But I guess the world needs dreamers. They make life more interesting. I just hope that no one in the Wolves front office or on the Wolves coaching staff shares the same fantasy. The "point-Wiggins" experiment has failed before our eyes over and over again. The results are in: The player, Andrew Wiggins, doesn't mix with the concept, point-anything. So let the dreamers among us write about it. I just pray we no longer have a front office or coaching staff inclined to build strategy on precepts of fantasy. Darko wasn't the passing equivalent of Vlady. To the contrary, he was a wash-out underachiever who no other team in the League wanted. Thankfully, Wiggins is no Darko. But Wiggins is not a point-forward - not remotely close.

At best, he's a slasher off the ball who can score going to the hoop on feeds from his teammates while also hitting corner threes and playing tough one-on-one defense. Of course, all that assumes a level of development as well as a level of tenacity and competitive we have yet to see from him after five seasons. I refuse to completely close my mind to that possibility. It's not impossible and there we all know that a hope with a small dash of fantasy is a key survival tool for Wolves fans. But we can't let a small bit of fantasy turn into a colossal delusion. Wiggins is not and never will be a primary ballhandler/distributor! I have to believe that Rosas and Saunders know that.

There is a massively stark difference between the consideration of Darko and Ryan Hollins getting the leeway they got and trying Wiggins as a primarily ball handler. The Wolves has Kevin Love and even if you didn't see I'm becoming the pseudo star he became it was pretty obvious that he was fairly talented and deserved more of a role than those guys. What are the obvious options the Wolves have handling the ball? Teague? Sure but he isn't a part of the long term play and neither is Napier? Culver? Yeah he is probably going to get his shot too but he is a rookie. Giving the ball to Wiggins and letting him do things isn't taking the ball out of someone's hand that has shown signs of being the next Iggy or something.

Furthermore when Wiggins gets stripped it's typically when he is in the paint and nearly at the rim. His perimeter ball handling isn't magical but i don't worry about him too much out there.

Now if Wiggins (or quite frankly almost anyone else) has the ball a whole bunch and Towns doesn't then that is a big problem. The funny thing is it seems like Wiggins and Towns has done some good things in the pick and roll together. Do I think that's something you can just go to a whole bunch over and over? No probably not but why in the world haven't we seen more of that? It doesn't make a ton of sense.

Monster - I think you have a strong contrarian streak. :). Honestly, Wiggins as primary ballhandler or a point-forward, is beyond ridiculous.

So nothing I said was valid?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'd play to his strengths and try to camouflage his weaknesses. His strengths are immense, but so are his weaknesses. I'd never play him more than 6 consecutive minutes unless he's in a complete zone. I would try to create a mismatch on offense and post him up against smaller defenders. On defense I'd coach him to stop being so passive and take some risks.

What are his immense strengths you speak of? Well, besides being 6'8 and athletic. I'm genuinely curious.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

well, get ready for the ride because I think the plan is to have point wiggs (and point culver) show up more regularly in games.

We wont and we shouldnt see Wiggs try to play the harden role on offense for 30 minutes a game, but I think we will see him for a few spurts in that role.

1. we've seen point wiggs at the end of last season due to injuries (which wasnt bad), but we often relate point wiggs to 1.5 years ago when rubio was being sent to the corner (which was bad).

2. It will force him to play more downhill and he can be more productive when he does, a whole lot better than when hes being sent to the corner.

3. we have no pg depth, so someone is going to take up some possessions.

4. The KAt/Wiggs pnr has looked good when we went to it. I think it lead to quite a few kat catch and shoot 3 balls and kat hitting wiggs on the cut. Dane moore wondered why we only went to it 1 or 2 times a game during the thibs era.

5. Might as well unleash it and see what happens. At worst we still continue losing and get a better pick. And if it does become the push that he needed, its a game changer.

https://zonecoverage.com/2019/featured/point-andrew-wiggins-expands-timberwolves-identity/

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

The guy does nothing off the ball and we already suck so what's the real downside of point Wiggins? We just stay par for the course? We know he does nothing off the ball so I fail to see how playing him to be a cutter and spot up shooter is playing into his strengths. That just feeds right into his ability to stand around and watch on the perimeter. Point Wiggins at least forces him to be engaged in the game and again we already suck so what is the real downside trying to get more out of our second max player? Another lottery pick?

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Hmmm. What poison pill should i pick? Jeff Teague dribbling the air out of the ball or point Wiggins turning it over 10 times a game?

I think point Culver is our best choice if we wanna go that route.