Minnesota Sports Forum

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 7:05 am**

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 6:49 am
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 10:36 pm
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 9:46 pm

I agree for the most part, although Miami seems to get ANYONE that plays for them to contribute. I'm sure if Cody played for the Wolves, he'd be a bumbling, plodding big man that called for foul every time he touched someone.

But I agree with your conclusion. As long as KAT and Gobert end up staying with the squad, I don't see the sense in throwing $10+M at Reid. Andre Drummond was barely paid over $3M last season and we want to go spend 4X that on Reid!? Makes no sense. There are a glut of "good enough" backup bigs that won't get bullied in the paint like Naz and cost us a ton less.
53rd pick, I'd love to go after Oscar Tshiebwe. If we can't improve our rebounding with one of the best rebounders in college history, then why bother trying?
Do you really think he'd be available at that slot? And if he is, it just goes to show how you can get quality bench bigs in today's NBA at a relatively cheap price. We know rebounding translates about as well as any skill from college to the NBA, so he will instantly be a great rebounder. I'd be down with that plan.

Oscar was my choice at 19 last season before he withdrew, so even though this season was slightly less impressive, I would love to get him in the second round. Now that he has declared though, I suspect we will start seeing him appear late in the first round in mocks.

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 7:38 am**

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 9:46 pm
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 9:25 pm If Miami can dig up Cody Zeller and have him contribute to a team going to the Finals, then why spend so much on Reid? One on hand, it should lower his price, but it also lowers our incentive to keep him.
I agree for the most part, although Miami seems to get ANYONE that plays for them to contribute. I'm sure if Cody played for the Wolves, he'd be a bumbling, plodding big man that called for foul every time he touched someone.

But I agree with your conclusion. As long as KAT and Gobert end up staying with the squad, I don't see the sense in throwing $10+M at Reid. Andre Drummond was barely paid over $3M last season and we want to go spend 4X that on Reid!? Makes no sense. There are a glut of "good enough" backup bigs that won't get bullied in the paint like Naz and cost us a ton less.

It’s worth noting that one reason Zeller was available cheap is because he simply hasn’t been able to stay healthy.

Q your point is exactly why I don’t think Naz is going to get much more money and why I’m not paying him more than starting at 10 million a year. Look at a guy like Montrez Harrell who I think is a good comp to Naz in terms of overall what they bring. Harrell was a pretty good player but the most he ever made was a 1 year deal with the Lakers for just over 9 million. I do believe a couple times he took less money and was a RFA but still he never really got paid. I think the Wolves have a chance to resign Naz at a fairly reasonable salary and have a good young player locked in that has shown some level of improvement pretty much every year and is a few weeks from turning 24. If the price get too high then move on and find another worthwhile player for cheap.

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 7:49 am**

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 9:57 pm Heat just dismantling the Celtics in this series. To win both games in Boston and then to completely blow them out at home is shocking to me.

On paper, I find the Celtics to be the deepest, most well-balanced 2-way team in the NBA playoffs this year. These guys made the Finals last year and seemed poised to get there again.

So what the hell happened??? Is it coaching? Are their players mentally soft?

Well it’s gotta be at least a little bit coaching right? How is their defensive numbers in the playoffs? That was. A big thing last year when they started taking off in the 2nd half of the year. They still were good in the regular season this year but their defense has to be part of the problem at least against the heat.

Other than that I have no idea but Miami is just putting on a clinic of how to get the most out of everything. I watched the 10 minute highlights from the game yesterday. Who was that Duncan Robinson guy? Lol Never seen him play like that before. Dude was handling the ball and dropping dimes and stuff.

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 9:25 am**

Monster wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 7:49 am
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 9:57 pm Heat just dismantling the Celtics in this series. To win both games in Boston and then to completely blow them out at home is shocking to me.

On paper, I find the Celtics to be the deepest, most well-balanced 2-way team in the NBA playoffs this year. These guys made the Finals last year and seemed poised to get there again.

So what the hell happened??? Is it coaching? Are their players mentally soft?
Well it’s gotta be at least a little bit coaching right? How is their defensive numbers in the playoffs? That was. A big thing last year when they started taking off in the 2nd half of the year. They still were good in the regular season this year but their defense has to be part of the problem at least against the heat.

Other than that I have no idea but Miami is just putting on a clinic of how to get the most out of everything. I watched the 10 minute highlights from the game yesterday. Who was that Duncan Robinson guy? Lol Never seen him play like that before. Dude was handling the ball and dropping dimes and stuff.

Yeah, they had the #3 defense in the regular season this year, so really good, but they aren't doing as well defensively in the playoffs.

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 9:37 am**

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:25 am
Monster wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 7:49 am
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 9:57 pm Heat just dismantling the Celtics in this series. To win both games in Boston and then to completely blow them out at home is shocking to me.

On paper, I find the Celtics to be the deepest, most well-balanced 2-way team in the NBA playoffs this year. These guys made the Finals last year and seemed poised to get there again.

So what the hell happened??? Is it coaching? Are their players mentally soft?
Well it’s gotta be at least a little bit coaching right? How is their defensive numbers in the playoffs? That was. A big thing last year when they started taking off in the 2nd half of the year. They still were good in the regular season this year but their defense has to be part of the problem at least against the heat.

Other than that I have no idea but Miami is just putting on a clinic of how to get the most out of everything. I watched the 10 minute highlights from the game yesterday. Who was that Duncan Robinson guy? Lol Never seen him play like that before. Dude was handling the ball and dropping dimes and stuff.
Yeah, they had the #3 defense in the regular season this year, so really good, but they aren't doing as well defensively in the playoffs.

The Celtics need Rudy!

Rudy and Knight for White, Horford, Gallo and Portland’s 2023 2nd.

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 9:53 am**

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:37 am
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:25 am
Monster wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 7:49 am

Well it’s gotta be at least a little bit coaching right? How is their defensive numbers in the playoffs? That was. A big thing last year when they started taking off in the 2nd half of the year. They still were good in the regular season this year but their defense has to be part of the problem at least against the heat.

Other than that I have no idea but Miami is just putting on a clinic of how to get the most out of everything. I watched the 10 minute highlights from the game yesterday. Who was that Duncan Robinson guy? Lol Never seen him play like that before. Dude was handling the ball and dropping dimes and stuff.
Yeah, they had the #3 defense in the regular season this year, so really good, but they aren't doing as well defensively in the playoffs.
The Celtics need Rudy! Rudy and Knight for White, Horford, Gallo and Portland’s 2023 2nd.

Ha!

I honestly don't know what they do. They have a damn good team and players. Just looking at the regular season, they were #2 in offense and #3 in defense. I mean, what exactly do you shake up in terms of player personnel when you are top 3 in both offense and defense!?

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 9:55 am**

Monster wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 7:49 am
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 9:57 pm Heat just dismantling the Celtics in this series. To win both games in Boston and then to completely blow them out at home is shocking to me.

On paper, I find the Celtics to be the deepest, most well-balanced 2-way team in the NBA playoffs this year. These guys made the Finals last year and seemed poised to get there again.

So what the hell happened??? Is it coaching? Are their players mentally soft?
Well it’s gotta be at least a little bit coaching right? How is their defensive numbers in the playoffs? That was. A big thing last year when they started taking off in the 2nd half of the year. They still were good in the regular season this year but their defense has to be part of the problem at least against the heat.

Other than that I have no idea but Miami is just putting on a clinic of how to get the most out of everything. I watched the 10 minute highlights from the game yesterday. Who was that Duncan Robinson guy? Lol Never seen him play like that before. Dude was handling the ball and dropping dimes and stuff.

A few things:

1) It's a make-or-miss league. Miami was #27 in 3fg % in the regular season (34.4%) and made 12 per game. They're shooting 47.8% in the ECF, making 14.7 per game.

2) Boston shot 37.7% on threes during the regular season and made 16 per game. They're shooting 29.2% while making only 10.3 per game this series.

3) More shooting craziness... Tyler Herro was the ONLY Heat rotation player to be better than average on three pointers this season. He's out injured with a broken hand. (47.8%!)

4) What more evidence do we need that Eric Spoelstra is an all-time great coach?

5) Joe Mazzula is terrible. Remember, he wasn't even a top assistant with Boston last season. He was BEHIND the bench during games. But Hardy and others left the organization and the team was stuck after the Udoka situation. To make matters worse, the Celtics didn't support him with a senior assistant coaching staff. I know I'm in the "players >> coaches" camp. But at this stage... coaches aren't irrelevant. They can make a difference by making adjustments.

It also seems obvious his players know it.

6) Boston quit. What an embarrassment. Duncan Robinson made 25 two pointers ALL SEASON. He fell out of the rotation entirely for a long spell. He's made 5 two pointers in the past two games alone... and was consistently beating the Celtics off the dribble yesterday. The guy took approximately 17 dribbles all season!

More Boston crap. There was 21 seconds left in the half... 20 seconds on the shot clock for Boston. Obviously, you wait for one shot. Nope. Jaylen Brown misses a three pointer with 9 seconds left. Why?!?!? Miami didn't score off it, but it just shows that the Celtics had checked out.

More Boston crap. They just let Miami hunt Derrick White with Jimmy Butler repeatedly. Now, White is no Trae Young. And we all know Derrick White is an All NBA defender (over guys like Jaden McDaniels... ahem), but he had no chance to stop Butler. Maybe try something else?

More Boston crap. Jimmy Butler is punking them. Bad. And the only guy willing to step up to him gets roasted in the media for it.

7) Jimmy Butler is a bad mfer... and his teammates know it and are following his lead. The idea of Jimmy Butler in Minnesota was the right choice. But alas, money and personalities and whatever else turned it into a disaster.

8) It'll be interesting what happens in Boston this summer. Mazzula has to be gone (or an elite assistant coach has to be brought in to effectively run the team). Smart? Brown? Others?

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 10:21 am**

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:53 am
Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:37 am
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:25 am

Yeah, they had the #3 defense in the regular season this year, so really good, but they aren't doing as well defensively in the playoffs.
The Celtics need Rudy! Rudy and Knight for White, Horford, Gallo and Portland’s 2023 2nd.
Ha!

I honestly don't know what they do. They have a damn good team and players. Just looking at the regular season, they were #2 in offense and #3 in defense. I mean, what exactly do you shake up in terms of player personnel when you are top 3 in both offense and defense!?

It’s strange. I’ve thought all season and still believe now that the Celtics have the best roster in the NBA. Tatum and Brown are both stars. Smart is tremendous and tough. They have tremendous depth at the guard position with Brogdon and White. Horford still has game. Robert Williams is one of the League’s best shot blockers. But I’ve also thought all season that they were missing something. I watched them a number of times during the season and saw a team that would lose its focus all too often. We’re seeing that tendency in spades in the Miami series.

If I were the Celtics PBO, I don’t think I’d make any major changes to the roster. Instead, I’d view what happened this season as almost entirely a coaching problem. They have a terrible head coach and coaching staff. It’s almost that simple. Another piece of it is that Tatum and Brown are still young. We tend to forget how long it takes for great players to become championship caliber players. Michael Jordan was 28 when he won his first championship. Isiah Thomas was 27, Hakeem 31, Shaq 28, and Steph Curry 27 when they won his first championships. Tatum is 25 and Brown 26. So part of the issue in my view is that Tatum and Brown simply aren’t ready yet to lead their team to a championship.

Would I trade for Rudy Gobert if I were Boston’s PBO. No. He’s not what they need in my view. But I’m hoping the Celtics real PBO sees things differently.

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 10:51 am**

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:55 am
Monster wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 7:49 am
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 9:57 pm Heat just dismantling the Celtics in this series. To win both games in Boston and then to completely blow them out at home is shocking to me.

On paper, I find the Celtics to be the deepest, most well-balanced 2-way team in the NBA playoffs this year. These guys made the Finals last year and seemed poised to get there again.

So what the hell happened??? Is it coaching? Are their players mentally soft?
Well it’s gotta be at least a little bit coaching right? How is their defensive numbers in the playoffs? That was. A big thing last year when they started taking off in the 2nd half of the year. They still were good in the regular season this year but their defense has to be part of the problem at least against the heat.

Other than that I have no idea but Miami is just putting on a clinic of how to get the most out of everything. I watched the 10 minute highlights from the game yesterday. Who was that Duncan Robinson guy? Lol Never seen him play like that before. Dude was handling the ball and dropping dimes and stuff.
A few things:

1) It's a make-or-miss league. Miami was #27 in 3fg % in the regular season (34.4%) and made 12 per game. They're shooting 47.8% in the ECF, making 14.7 per game.

2) Boston shot 37.7% on threes during the regular season and made 16 per game. They're shooting 29.2% while making only 10.3 per game this series.

3) More shooting craziness... Tyler Herro was the ONLY Heat rotation player to be better than average on three pointers this season. He's out injured with a broken hand. (47.8%!)

4) What more evidence do we need that Eric Spoelstra is an all-time great coach?

5) Joe Mazzula is terrible. Remember, he wasn't even a top assistant with Boston last season. He was BEHIND the bench during games. But Hardy and others left the organization and the team was stuck after the Udoka situation. To make matters worse, the Celtics didn't support him with a senior assistant coaching staff. I know I'm in the "players >> coaches" camp. But at this stage... coaches aren't irrelevant. They can make a difference by making adjustments.

It also seems obvious his players know it.

6) Boston quit. What an embarrassment. Duncan Robinson made 25 two pointers ALL SEASON. He fell out of the rotation entirely for a long spell. He's made 5 two pointers in the past two games alone... and was consistently beating the Celtics off the dribble yesterday. The guy took approximately 17 dribbles all season!

More Boston crap. There was 21 seconds left in the half... 20 seconds on the shot clock for Boston. Obviously, you wait for one shot. Nope. Jaylen Brown misses a three pointer with 9 seconds left. Why?!?!? Miami didn't score off it, but it just shows that the Celtics had checked out.

More Boston crap. They just let Miami hunt Derrick White with Jimmy Butler repeatedly. Now, White is no Trae Young. And we all know Derrick White is an All NBA defender (over guys like Jaden McDaniels... ahem), but he had no chance to stop Butler. Maybe try something else?

More Boston crap. Jimmy Butler is punking them. Bad. And the only guy willing to step up to him gets roasted in the media for it.

7) Jimmy Butler is a bad mfer... and his teammates know it and are following his lead. The idea of Jimmy Butler in Minnesota was the right choice. But alas, money and personalities and whatever else turned it into a disaster.

8) It'll be interesting what happens in Boston this summer. Mazzula has to be gone (or an elite assistant coach has to be brought in to effectively run the team). Smart? Brown? Others?

Outstanding stuff here Abe. Yeah, in theory Jimmy Butler is EXACTLY what the Wolves needed at the time and frankly they could still use a guy like that (although his ego would probably never allow Ant to overshadow him), but in practice it just doesn't work if you don't have the right personalities from top to bottom in the organization. Miami and Jimmy is a match made in heaven between organization and player.

On Grant Williams, he was given quite a lot of kudos from some of the NBA lead pundits/color guys for showing fire a couple games ago and talking trash to Butler. I actually think he made a big mistake. Jimmy Butler is the last guy anyone should try to punk or own. It totally backfired in my opinion and no one from Boston was motivated by it. In fact, he got benched after Jimmy torched him for 3 or 4 baskets afterwards. So it did nothing but put a chip on Butler's shoulder. Bad idea.

Back to Boston....I agree, the coaching lever seems like the only reasonable one they can pull. I don't know what churning player personnel will do when they are already loaded with the kind of 2-way talent most other teams would salivate to have.

Posted: **Mon May 22, 2023 10:54 am**

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 10:21 am
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:53 am
Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:37 am

The Celtics need Rudy! Rudy and Knight for White, Horford, Gallo and Portland’s 2023 2nd.
Ha!

I honestly don't know what they do. They have a damn good team and players. Just looking at the regular season, they were #2 in offense and #3 in defense. I mean, what exactly do you shake up in terms of player personnel when you are top 3 in both offense and defense!?
It’s strange. I’ve thought all season and still believe now that the Celtics have the best roster in the NBA. Tatum and Brown are both stars. Smart is tremendous and tough. They have tremendous depth at the guard position with Brogdon and White. Horford still has game. Robert Williams is one of the League’s best shot blockers. But I’ve also thought all season that they were missing something. I watched them a number of times during the season and saw a team that would lose its focus all too often. We’re seeing that tendency in spades in the Miami series.

If I were the Celtics PBO, I don’t think I’d make any major changes to the roster. Instead, I’d view what happened this season as almost entirely a coaching problem. They have a terrible head coach and coaching staff. It’s almost that simple. Another piece of it is that Tatum and Brown are still young. We tend to forget how long it takes for great players to become championship caliber players. Michael Jordan was 28 when he won his first championship. Isiah Thomas was 27, Hakeem 31, Shaq 28, and Steph Curry 27 when they won his first championships. Tatum is 25 and Brown 26. So part of the issue in my view is that Tatum and Brown simply aren’t ready yet to lead their team to a championship.

Would I trade for Rudy Gobert if I were Boston’s PBO. No. He’s not what they need in my view. But I’m hoping the Celtics real PBO sees things differently.

The Celtics PBO is Brad Stevens.

He could solve a lot of their problems by simply returning to the sidelines. As for Brown and Tatum... while they're youngish... they have SO MUCH experience that you'd think would help them avoid this sort of meltdown. (or even on a smaller scale like last year in the Finals.)

It's crazy... but this is Jaylen Brown's 5th time in the ECF. Tatum has been there 4 times.

I don't know what the solution is for the Celtics... more time vs. roster moves. I think that decision is entirely about what's happening behind the scenes — and none of us know anything about that.

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